Cycling MUST stop idolising dopers, or never be clean!

sosidge

2007 was supposed to be the "clean" tour, and it wasn't.

I've been pondering over the last couple of weeks why the sport has been incapable of breaking the doping culture, and I think I have finally cracked it.

Many of cycling's heroes have been dopers. Not all of them have been caught. And nobody has the guts to call them cheats.

Instead the attitude is "everyone did it" or "it was a different era" or "but it is a great story regardless". Cycling journalists and retired riders prefer to duck the question than admit they doped, or reveal the names of the people they knew were doping on the circuit.

Eddy Merckx, Marco Pantani and many others are all still treated as heroes but failed doping tests. They should actually be treated as cheats. David Millar has returned to the tour as a clean rider. But he is also a cheat. Everyone who has doped should be treated as a cheat.

The closest parallel I can think of in terms of a champion being proven to have taken drugs is Ben Johnson's 100m win in 1988. He became a pariah afterwards. Cycling needs to have the same attitude if it is ever going to come clean.

spen666

sosidge wrote:

...
Many of cycling's heroes have been dopers. Not all of them have been caught. And nobody has the guts to call them cheats.....

D oyou really mean what you have typed here?

You want us to condemn people who have not been caught doing anything wrong?


Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Who decides (without evidence) they were dopers?

ddraver

well two of the cyclists in the example he used DID get caught but only one admitted it

and the other cyclist (Mercx) basically admitted it but never got checked...was nt Mercx the "you think we do this on mineral water alone do you?" person

and you have a point there sosidge but that means we have no one to idolise at all...ever

DavidBelcher

The "mineral water" quote was Jacques Anquetil's, I believe.

David

ddraver

DAMMIT

well Mercx said something i'm sure, i ve just forgotten what it was

ricadus

I think it may have been along the line of "I was set up".

iainf72

The reason people dope is because

a) it works
b) there is little chance of being caught

The rewards outweight the risks, so why wouldn't you do it?

Because it works, even if you're not a star, you can at least keep up in the races without feeling like you're going die and keep your contract (and livelihood) for the next year.

If the risk of getting caught goes up, then it has to cut back, or techniques have to change (see move from EPO to blood transfusions)

sosidge

spen666 wrote:

sosidge wrote:

...
Many of cycling's heroes have been dopers. Not all of them have been caught. And nobody has the guts to call them cheats.....

D oyou really mean what you have typed here?

You want us to condemn people who have not been caught doing anything wrong?


Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Who decides (without evidence) they were dopers?

Perhaps the not caught part weakened the sense of the sentence.

To be more clear...

Many of cycling's heroes have been dopers. And nobody has the guts to call them cheats.

Not all of the dopers have been caught.

We do have proof that not all the dopers were caught while competing. Bjarne Riis was brave/foolish enough to admit that he doped during the Tour. Probably he is one of many that were not caught by testing at the time. Doping has always been about keeping one step ahead of the tests.

Also I fully believe in innocent until proven guilty.

However cycling has no shortage of those proven guilty so it doesn't detract from the thrust of my argument.

Stop idolising the cheats and cycling will come clean!

Hudster

Ben Johnson was caught and hung and athletics still has a big doping problem (a problem which in reality it is failing to admit to).

I personally think what you suggest would make the situation far worse. Millar is a good example - I think the sport is far better and cleaner for people like him to be in it.

JezRodando

Frankly whether a "doping" technique is ethical or dangerous or whatever, I'm sick of the media et al constantly pointing the finger at cycling. OK, some have been caught in the T de F and other events and there will be others in the future but isn't that simply testimony to the fact that in cycling more athletes are tested than in other sports and therefore more are caught. Also, it is testimony to the endurance of cycling, that is to say no other sport on the earth is as hard or as enduring as the sport of road cycling. The way the media in general targets our sport would almost have you believe that doping never takes place in any other sport. Well all I can say is "wake up". For sure, tennis players dope. You only have to look at some of the women and "steroidal products" shout at you. Are they tested so often as cyclists? Even in golf it has recently been revealed many pro golfers dope. That doesn't surprise me however because you have to take something just to get over the sheer boredom. Same applies to snooker, cricket and darts. And what about football players. Are they trying to make out no one dopes. Come on! They just don't test on as regular a basis, and why? MONEY and POWER. If they tested footballers at the rate they tested cyclists there wouldn't be a league left intact. Maybe in the UK there is an element of jealousy. Cycling, on the track at least, (but not forgetting the likes of Nichole Cooke and many of our new generation male road racers also) is the most successful sport at present at world level and in particular transcends the likes of athletics; also hardly free of doping scandals. It's success overshadows other sports and clearly the likes of the Daily Express, for example, can't cope with that especially as they have publicly declared cycling should be banned as a sport. What idiots they are!!! Also certain IOC and WADA officials, instead of threatening cycling may do well to look a little more closely at some other of the existing Olympic sports; apparently in cross country skiing doping is rife. No surprises there though. It is a very demanding sport indeed.
So, OK, keep testing cyclists and catch the cheats. I don't have a problem with that but STOP singling out our sport as if it is the only one where competitors dope.
My message is applaud the likes of Bradley Wiggins, Mark Cavendish, David Millar et al for their stance against drugs. They are true athletes and are prepared to speak out. I haven't heard any golfers, footballers or tennis players speak out so forcefully. I wonder why. And before anybody says anything, yes, David Millar did serve out a 2 year ban but he has the T-shirt now and is qualified to speak out against doping.
At the end of the day, cycling is a great and wonderful sport in all of its various forms and those who take part and provide the rest of us with a great road show should be given more respect by the media instead of constantly being the butt of sensationalism.

Monty Dog

Does anyone really believe that any of the GT winners since 1991 have been clean? At least Riis admitted to it, whereas there are many who are long since retired, but continue to maintain the 'omerta' that unless broken, we're not really moving forward. I'm glad to see the likes of Millar back in the peloton, he's served his dues and his outspokeness is warranted. Pity that those is the 'never tested positive' brigade still believe that it's a credible defence.

Kléber

Monty Dog wrote:

Does anyone really believe that any of the GT winners since 1991 have been clean? At least Riis admitted to it, whereas there are many who are long since retired, but continue to maintain the 'omerta' that unless broken, we're not really moving forward. I'm glad to see the likes of Millar back in the peloton, he's served his dues and his outspokeness is warranted. Pity that those is the 'never tested positive' brigade still believe that it's a credible defence.

I totally agree.

What makes it worse is that some have earnt millions from pretending that they've come back from illness and made it to the top thanks to the mental determination gained from fighting the illness. This in turn has given false hope to millions of sick people, when the reality is probably less encouraging than the current myth.

Noodley

Kléber wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Does anyone really believe that any of the GT winners since 1991 have been clean? At least Riis admitted to it, whereas there are many who are long since retired, but continue to maintain the 'omerta' that unless broken, we're not really moving forward. I'm glad to see the likes of Millar back in the peloton, he's served his dues and his outspokeness is warranted. Pity that those is the 'never tested positive' brigade still believe that it's a credible defence.

I totally agree.

What makes it worse is that some have earnt millions from pretending that they've come back from illness and made it to the top thanks to the mental determination gained from fighting the illness. This in turn has given false hope to millions of sick people, when the reality is probably less encouraging than the current myth.

There is a "blackberry" in a far off land flashing furiously...

Tom Butcher

Kléber wrote:

What makes it worse is that some have earnt millions from pretending that they've come back from illness and made it to the top thanks to the mental determination gained from fighting the illness. This in turn has given false hope to millions of sick people, when the reality is probably less encouraging than the current myth.

Can't both be true - yes I agree all the recent GT winners (maybe all through history) have probably doped but if they were competing against other dopers they still needed the talent, mental strength, luck etc to achieve what they did. I'm not a big LA fan but he does seem to get an excessive amount of stick for doping - more than his main rivals such as Pantani , Ulrich even Basso who have even more evidence against them.

cougie

I cant really find it in my heart to rally against all the dopers when its pretty clear that the main rivals were doping too. It was almost accepted. Theres very few riders acknowledged as clean.

Now though it has been realised that they are likely to get found out and its not the done thing to dope.

In the past the playing field was levelled with drugs. Now I'd like to see it levelled without them. We've progressed and in the same way that we dont have people smoking in offices - we shouldnt have them doping in the peleton.

The cyclists of yesteryear were great riders - a lot simply went along with the mood of the day -which in a lot of cases was doping. I'm struggling to think of great cyclist who was known to be clean. Boardman ? Lemond maybe ? As to the rest of them - I wouldnt put money on any rider having been clean throughout a pro career.

Valiant Son

Kléber wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Does anyone really believe that any of the GT winners since 1991 have been clean? At least Riis admitted to it, whereas there are many who are long since retired, but continue to maintain the 'omerta' that unless broken, we're not really moving forward. I'm glad to see the likes of Millar back in the peloton, he's served his dues and his outspokeness is warranted. Pity that those is the 'never tested positive' brigade still believe that it's a credible defence.

I totally agree.

What makes it worse is that some have earnt millions from pretending that they've come back from illness and made it to the top thanks to the mental determination gained from fighting the illness. This in turn has given false hope to millions of sick people, when the reality is probably less encouraging than the current myth.

There'll be a law suit with your name on it now!

Kléber

I didn't name anyone. If you're thinking of a particular rider, perhaps you could be jumping to conclusions.

Indeed, several cyclists have returned from having a cold during the winter to win the Vuelta. Others have managed to overcome hayfever to win the Giro. Or where you thinking of another illness and another Grand Tour?

Valiant Son

Kléber wrote:

I didn't name anyone. If you're thinking of a particular rider, perhaps you could be jumping to conclusions.

Indeed, several cyclists have returned from having a cold during the winter to win the Vuelta. Others have managed to overcome hayfever to win the Giro. Or where you thinking of another illness and another Grand Tour?

LOL.

You said:

What makes it worse is that some have earnt millions from pretending that they've come back from illness and made it to the top thanks to the mental determination gained from fighting the illness. This in turn has given false hope to millions of sick people, when the reality is probably less encouraging than the current myth.

Doesn't exactly sound like you were referring to people who had suffered from colds or hayfever now does it!

I said nothing about people from Texas.

ddraver

If you re trying to tell me that hayfever is not a serious disease.........

mondobongo

Tis a sad fact that some of our heroes may have alledgedly been doping but tearing it all to pieces now will achieve little. A line is being drawn that its no longer acceptable and that the supporters of cycling want their sport to be totally clean. We have to move on and demonstrate to the media that we have sorted out the problem and that Cycling is now clean in doing this they will move on and look for something else to drag into the gutter.
Footballs time will come it is my belief that the modern game is rotten to the core and despite being a Scouser and lifelong Liverpool fan can no longer drum up my enthusiasm for the modern money oriented game.

We need the Governing Bodies to adopt a strong stance and look at harsher penalties 2 years is not long enough a life ban is the only way to go.

If we wanted to be really brave then an amnesty would be the way to go, come out and admit it the results still stand but to be honest we would probably never get to the whole truth, we have to accept the results of previous years and move onto a new era in which ability, tactics, together with mental and physical strengh are the benchmarks for a new breed of heroes.