Fixed Bike - Fuji, Charge, From Parts ??

Gav2000

I'm considering getting a fixed geared bike and have been surfing the net and browsing this forum for a few weeks. I've considered several bikes but don't want to spend too much as I already have 2 bikes and I may not take to a fixer.

In the last few days I have considered buying a frame (possibly from On One) and building the bike from parts purchased off ebay. However the cost of this could quickly rise to £500+ so I'm reconsidering the off the shelf options.

I've just seen the Fuji Track bike for £299 which looks like a complete bike except for brakes (it is drilled for them though). Does anyone have any experience of these bikes on the road?

Cheers,

Gavin.

gvlieghe

Gavin, I used to own a Fuji (before it got stolen). I liked it a lot, it's a very good deal imo. If you really take to the whole fixie thing, you can upgrade parts or build your own, but that's a money trap. I've fallen into it myself, several times. Go fuji go.

Gav2000

gvlieghe wrote:

Gavin, I used to own a Fuji (before it got stolen). I liked it a lot, it's a very good deal imo. If you really take to the whole fixie thing, you can upgrade parts or build your own, but that's a money trap. I've fallen into it myself, several times. Go fuji go.

Thanks for the response, I'm tempted by the build my own route but a quick list of parts and estimate of costs showed me how much it could cost. I've found a bike shop about 20 miles away that can get a Fuji in for £300, that looks like fantastic value to me.

Gav.

njc97

I've got a second hand fuji and it is indeed ACE. But general consensus seems to be that out of the box it needs brakes, spokes (stock ones are "made from spagetti") and a new saddle. So price ends up a bit more than £300, and closer to charge/langster range.

Gav2000

njc97 wrote:

I've got a second hand fuji and it is indeed ACE. But general consensus seems to be that out of the box it needs brakes, spokes (stock ones are "made from spagetti") and a new saddle. So price ends up a bit more than £300, and closer to charge/langster range.

The Charge can't hold any bottle holders though (although I do like the bars and brakes) and I had anticipated a new saddle whatever I bought. The spokes comment is worrying though as I wouldn't want to have the wheels rebuilt, is it a problem with the current model or previous years?

Gav.

yinya

don't know about the fuji, ride a pomp myself. depends on how strong you are, but soon you'll want an upgrade - things i've been lusting after and half of what I've ended getting: set phil wood hubs on open pros (£300), king headset (£120), disc fork setup with a new wheel (£160), new saddle (£50-150), better brakes (£25), different cogs (£25/pcs), setback seatpost (£25), different stem length (£25), condor potenza frame (£650), and so on... so if I could go back in time, I'd buy the frame only and only the bits I love - but you got to know what you like for that.

GaryGkn

Bob Jackson frame with headset fitted and delivery (369)
Chain izumi (13)
Ambrosio/Open Pro (130)
tyres (30)
rim tape (5)
Stronglight ST1000 (67)
Ea1 18t (18)
BB (18)
nitto Pearl (30)
nitto noodlebar (25)
Brooks Pro (45)
Phat bar tape (14)
Tektro caliper (15)
cable + housing (4)
Shimano BR400 levers (20)
Quill pedals + straps (35)
stem (20)

total 858

first time I added it all up

my mate just said 'that bike doesn't even have any gears and it cost that much'
'it does have one gear'

Carlton conversion = 201

cars are more expensive and bikes have many benefits, health, fun, convenience etc

I would say off the shelf is cheaper

if I had to do it all again I would probably take more time and get a set of Phil hubs or just convert something suitable

fuji could be a good way in

jonathan r

As a means to dip your toe into the fixed riding experience, buying of the shelf, ( Fuji or Langaster), is a cost affective option.

My first experience of fixed, was with a Fuji. My only real dislike were the rubbish wheels. They went out of true fare to often. However as an introduction to the whole experience the £300 paid was good value.

If after some time you then decide fixed is for you. Don’t bother upgrading the Fuji, invest in a decent frame and wheels etc.

NorwegianBlue

I bought an '87 Raleigh Criterium 12 for £5.50 and a fixed rear wheel for £47.50. Along with tyres, tubes, brake blocks, bottom bracket, sprocket, chain and lock ring the total cost was just over the £100 mark. It's a terrific bike. The only problem was discovering the drive side dropout was a short one so I had to hand cut it to match the long dropout on the non-drive side.

It's a much better way of getting into fixed riding than buying an off the shelf bike. If you don't like riding fixed you can probably sell a well executed conversion at a profit. Or you can convert the bike back to gears.

However I've since seen similar Raleigh Crits selling for £200+ on ebay. Sometimes I wish I'd simply cleaned up the bike and sold it on ebay.

peejay78

i have a fuji, it is light and responsive and looks good.

but in keeping with anyone else, i changed the wheels and saddle within a few weeks, now have cpx22s and cinelli critierium bars.

i have a bob jackson on order, and need to build it. do you have any pics, garygkn?

GaryGkn

Hi Peejay as I nearly always lose the tiny expensive family digital camera I don't get the opportunity for pics plus the drab weather has made it impossible for me. I will have ago this evening. The Bob Jackson is awaiting the build but should be able to borrow a cheap camera for the pics this week or tonight!

I went for Verde Chairio.

And you?

GaryGkn

Also looking at the cheap rear hubs from on-one at £15 they should be a good stand by for commuting etc. Phil's would be good but realistically the budget won't stretch.

I commute through Richmond Park do you?

peejay78

midnight blue, with lime lugs.

(better than it sounds)

i will use the harry rowland wheels then buy new stuff.

i'm thinking about a deep drop stem - possibly not the really steep one, prob the pearl that you've got - and nitto alloy track bars.

GaryGkn

I went for gold luglining, bottle and mudguard braze-ons as well, England is rather wet most of the time!

NorwegianBlue

Buying a bike and then upgrading will seldom get you the same quality of bike for your cash as buying a bike for the same final cost. Firstly bike manufacturers have for the most part become very good at building a bike with a similar quality of parts throughout, so an mid priced bike with top spec wheels on it will still have mid priced components everywhere else. Secondly you will always pay more retail for parts than you will if they are included in a complete build.

Very few people would spend say £300 or £500 on a geared road bike and imediately whack upgrades on it, but people do with fixers. I think this is because until very recently there were very few "roadable" fixers on the market so to get the bike you wanted you bought what was available and stuck your choice of bits on there. At the entry level this pretty much amounted to a Fuji Track, Specialized Langster or On-One Il Pompino. However there are now a lot more choices at a lot more price points, so you can more or less pick what you need. And as there are plenty of small concerns who will sell you an off the peg fixer effectively built to order it's easier to get them to upgrade at the point of sale.

My personal preference though is to start with an old road bike and convert it and then when you've swapped almost every part buy a new frame and fork. This is probably the most expensive option, so that shows what I know. So far my current build has cost me just over the £100. That is however about to increase by 50% or so with a new front wheel.

peejay78

however....

old road bike = forward facing drops, different geometry.

i wouldn't have upgraded the parts if the spokes weren't made of string.

the fuji frame is good.

and not everyone wants to or is confident about getting the chainline right.

NorwegianBlue

peejay78 wrote:

however....

old road bike = forward facing drops, different geometry.

i wouldn't have upgraded the parts if the spokes weren't made of string.

the fuji frame is good.

and not everyone wants to or is confident about getting the chainline right.

It's not like me (ahem) but for the second time this evening I'm going to be picky:

Old road bike = Dropouts.
Track bike = Track ends.

They are not dropouts. Dropouts are called dropouts because they allow you to drop the wheel out without unshipping the chain. And they are not "Horizontal Dropouts" either, those are the forward facing ones you used to find on old road bikes before somebody invented the vertical dropout.

I can't see a single advantage to track ends (other than fashion). The idea that you can pull the wheel out of horizontal dropouts is nonsense. For many many years the most powerful riders use horizontal dropouts with

OOOPS! Bit gone missing there!

with... QRs and they didn't go round pulling their rear wheels out. If Merckx couldn't pull a QR'ed rear wheel out of a horizontal dropout it's never going to happen to me with a nutted wheel.


And as for the geometry my old crit is pretty twitchy. Being the usual eighties Raleigh lash up the frame is designed for a 27" wheel and guards and the fork is designed for a 700c and will barely take a guard. Standing still it doesn't really show until you notice the difference in drop of the brakes and the fact that the top tube slopes ever so slightly the "wrong" way.

And don't assume that "track bike" = "twitchy geometry" anyway. It depends on the discipline. Track riders with the budget to run several bikes will tend to use more relaxed geometry for something like the kilo and persuit because a more stable bike allows them to concentate on speed. For races like the madison they need maneuvreablity and will then got for steeper angles.

I've just taken a look at the Fuji website and the angles of the track are pretty "road" anyway.[/b]

peejay78

whatever...

<yawns>

hides back under rock and wishes hadn't offered advice in the first place, let alone erroneous details with regard to cyclo-semantics.

NorwegianBlue

Well pardon me for doing a little research and trying to be truly helpful rather than just posting a load of toot off the top of my head without checking my facts (the biggest problem with net forums). The Fuji is aimed at track newbies and as such features roadesque geometry with which they would be comfortable. Spesh have slackened the geometry of the '07 Langster by about a degree over the '06 for much the same reason.

It's entirely unfair to offer purchasing advice to somebody on the basis of a particular quality which the suggested purchase doesn't in fact posses. If you're going to offer advice then it's only fair to check your facts first.

peejay78

i really wish i hadn't said anything. phrases like "truly helpful", and "biggest problem with net forums" are specious and loaded, not to mention this "entirely unfair to offer purchasing advice" spiel.

"load of toot"? really?

you ignore the relevant comment about chainline, preface your own comments with the words "personal preference", and come down quite heavily on general comments about track/road geometrry in which i didn't even mention fuji, and even though the fuji maybe be "pretty road", it's also pretty track, with low clearance, horizontal top tube, toe overlap. i don't remember saying anything about it being 'extreme'. the langster is very different with a pronounced slope on the TT.

your comments are aggressive. and if you're arguing about a perceived lack of objectivity or accuracy, perhaps look at the way you're passing off opinion as fact before getting snooty. and read the thread before being so dismissive, it's rude. oh, and maybe lighten up instead of making unnecessary comparisons between eddy merckx and leisure cyclists.

smiorgan

NorwegianBlue wrote:

I can't see a single advantage to track ends (other than fashion).

Longer, so more flexibility with sprocket ratios than some shorter dropouts.
Chaintugs make it easier to set up chain tension just right.
Chaintugs possibly useful if you run small ratios (e.g. offroad fixed) where you do have a risk of pulling the wheel forwards
Chaintugs more forgiving of newbies who don't tighten their tracknuts enough.
Chaintugs help if you have axle creep (I did on the raleigh, even with decent track nuts - not on the pomp with a Surly tug)
Potentially stronger? Nahh, I'm guessing now.

Beautiful plumage, btw

smiorgan

@ the OP - no experience of bikes in the 300 quid mark. I test rode a Langster once and thought it was a good deal at 400 quid, that was freewheel only. I expect as a fixed it would be even better. No mudguards though.

I think you need to ask yourself what you would do if you didn't like riding fixed - do you need or want a SS freewheel bike? Maybe you could get to a bike shop for a test ride. Otherwise a few long rides in variable terrain in one gear will tell you if you want one.

For building up I think I spent a little more than an off the peg Pomp Pro first getting an old Raleigh fixed up and then buying a Pomp frame anyway (but of course I've got the components I want). I'd only recommend that if you think you'll like spending hours fiddling with your bike.

Gav2000

Thanks for the responses on this one. Getting the chainline right would be a concern if I built from scratch and does point me towards a complete bike.

Another thing I've been thinking off is whether it is possible to get a flip flop rear wheel that is fixed on both sides so that 2 slightly different sprockets could be used? I notice that Pearson say that this is a possible option but I haven't seen it elsewhere. Is this an unusual requirement?

There seem to be quite a few bikes out there as I've just noticed the Kona Paddy Wagon, has anyone consider this? I notice it's on offer for £400 at the moment so is directly competeing with the Langster and Charge Plug.

Gav.

NickM

In practice, once you've found the gear that suits you and your local terrain you are unlikely to want to mess about turning round the rear wheel to "change gear". More bother than it's worth, I'd say, plus any unecessary clutter is to be avoided on a fixie. And getting the chainline right for both sprockets is that bit trickier.

If you have a shed full of bike parts you can learn quite a lot about bike maintenance by building up your own cheapo fixed-gear bike, but these days it definitely helps to own a suitable frame already - now that fixies are fashionable, any old bit of tat fetches silly money as long as it has horizontal dropouts...

I had a suitable frame to convert, and I insist on having both caliper brakes and mudguards*, so I'm not catered for by the available off-the-peg bikes. Otherwise, I'm sure I'd have been happy with a Langster or Genesis.


*necessary clutter, before anybody says anything!

smiorgan

Double fixed hubs are common, and will do for fixed/free as well, though chances are you'd not bother changing.

Paddy Wagon looks like a nice bike. I like the look of the fork (some sort of roadie version of their Project 2 fork I think). Apparently it's heavier/sturdier. Got a review in C+ online.

The Pearson Touche is probably out of your range but I know someone who just bought one, and I saw one on a roofrack at the weekend - good looking bike, looks like a lot for your cash.

Pete Beer

Or buy a Condor or Pompi with reasonable components already fitted. ride it, maintain it, get completely hooked on fixed until you end up with 4 (Doh) and then sell the Condor which I'm going to have to do and get the same if not very close to what you paid for it. If you hate it (and you won't) and buy something pretty popular you won't loose much. I've built up 1 bike. Take 1 frame, 1 pit in the garden and throw cash at it til broke.

extremerider

You can get the fuji track from here for £297.86 + £7p&p. For anyone that is after one.

http://biddlebikes.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=321&products_id=162

Gav2000

I've nearly got to the stage of creating a spreadsheet with all of the pros and cons of the various models on the market!

However, on reflection of what I want I am tending towards the Pearson Touche with courier bars, a short stem (as my legs are longer than my body) and double fixed hub. This is above the price I wanted to pay but I can't see anything on the Touche I'd want to change and it should stop me from wanting to upgrade in the near future. Now I just need to convince myself enough to place an order.

Gav.

NorwegianBlue

What are "courier bars"? I thought the Touche came with drops. Or do Pearson give you a choice of components?

Gav2000

NorwegianBlue wrote:

What are "courier bars"? I thought the Touche came with drops. Or do Pearson give you a choice of components?

I think they may also be called bullhorn or time trial bars. If you look on the Pearson website there is a picture. They come with the time trial aero brakes levers. I rarely use the drops as I'm not the most flexible person in the world and thought they may be more useful for me.

Here's the link; http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/index.html?action=97

Gav.