Drivers assuming they can pass you because you're a cyclist

redddraggon

Why do the majority of drivers assume that because you are cyclist, they can overtake you on all occasions.

On my commute from work today I was cycling down a short quiet road, I was doing all the proper stuff, signalling, in the correct position on the road. I was intending to do a right turn. As the road was only roughly 50yds long my (aswell as the car's) speed was slow, as I get towards the end of the road, the road ahead clear, a car tries to pass me on my right (on the other lane). I made my intentions clear to her, and she backed off (I only seem to have problems with women drivers - twice today) . It always seems to me that everyone driving is always in a rush - it wouldn't saved her more than a few seconds, and anyway I probably would have been able to take the corner quicker than her.


Was I in the right? Should I have meekly given in to her, and pulled to the left?

Kaipaith

As per my other post, I'm a newbie cyclist, just getting back into the swing of it.

My personal gut reaction in a situation like that would not be to pull into the left. For, if you are in the process of turning, or positioning yourself for a turn, it is because you need to be doing so - putting yourself over to the left is taking you the wrong way... why should you need to do that?

Secondly (and correct me if I am wrong) but I seem to recall that any vehicle (car, bike, truck, whatever) should only overtake when it is safe to do so. If you are turning right, it is evidently not safe to do so, as you might make your turn, and be run over by her. Sure, the driver would be fine... but safe doesn't just mean her safety, does it?

Gambatte

I figure you were right. Not being an assertive cyclist can get you riding in the kerb and into all other sorts of trouble. Think this was one way of interpreting the report a couple of months back about why more female than male cyclists were being killed in london.

Hairy Jock

redddraggon wrote:

Was I in the right? Should I have meekly given in to her, and pulled to the left?

You have just as much right to the road as anyone else, there is no reason why you should be bullied in the gutter. If you are turning right then you should be positioned to the right.

redddraggon

I never mentioned that when I moved to the right of the lane I was the only one on the road, and I only had 20yds left to the junction, so it beggars belief that she tried to pass me.

I'm only a newbie to cycling, and I'm quite enjoying it, the only thing that lets cycling down is the far too large a number of poor drivers. When I mean poor drivers I'm talking about passing cyclists too close, too fast, and stupidly trying to pass cyclists on the right when the cyclist is trying to turn right. There's far too many stupid drivers out there.

adifiddler

Some people just dont have a clue, sometimes if i am turning right and the there is no oncoming traffic I will actually cross the center line onto the opposite carriageway, i dont go far over and i am always prepared to for a car to appear at the junction. I only do this is i have a car coming from behind me at speed or even more so if a lorry coming up behind me. I do this so i am not holding anyone up and they feel they must squeeze past me instead i have given them room to drive past me without hindrance and often without a reduction of speed. I will always make an effort for lorry drivers as i have never had a problem from one, they will always make an effort to signal a thanks, because the size of the truck they control the traffic at difficult junctions and roundabouts so if you are in front of them you can concentrate on the junction without worrying about idiots coming up behind you and they have as many problems from other road users and pedestrians.

Gambatte

My commute takes me back out of Sheffield past Meadowhall. Its amazing how many times I can pass the same cars.


Going fast and getting past that cyclist really works, doesn't it? :roll: :roll:

fossyant

You get the same problems as a motorist as well - just some idiot's out there. Assertive riding (not aggressive) is the way to go - stick to the law, move out when necessary and if you have to hold up traffic when turning then so be it (so long as you are not forcing drivers to emergency brake)

MrHulot

Even being assertive and in the right place doesn't seem to disuade some of these idiots. This last week approaching the same roundabout in primary position in the righthand lane of two and indicating to take exit at 3 o'clock, I've had 2x cars and a van pass me on the left just before the roundabout and go round the outside to take the same exit as me when there is only room for 1 1/2 cars all the way round. What planet are they from?.

domtyler

Sometimes you need to make sure that they don't try something stupid, which is their natural tendency, I tend to not just take primary position but also to weave around a bit as well making doubly sure. This works well in a number of circumstances actually, especially if cars are passing you close on a fast road, the more unpredictable your trajectory the more room you tend to get given.
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Eat My Dust

What Dom said!!

I have a stretch of road on my commute which is a 30mph limit that I easily hit 30 mph on, this morning I had some fanny in a Range Rover trying to overtake me, I was doing 35 mph!!!! a little bit of weaving around every time he tried to overtake and he got the message.....eventually!!!

redddraggon

Eat My Dust wrote:

What Dom said!!

I have a stretch of road on my commute which is a 30mph limit that I easily hit 30 mph on, this morning I had some fanny in a Range Rover trying to overtake me, I was doing 35 mph!!!! a little bit of weaving around every time he tried to overtake and he got the message.....eventually!!!

I know the feeling, on my weekend route there's a section with a speed limit of 10mph which I'm easily surpassing, and cars pass me at least twice my speed.

CarKiller

Take a hammer in your jersey pocket.

Seriously, the only thing these fuckers understand is violence.

thamacdaddy

I personally think its a bit of give and take. I have just started back commuting again after a few years out of it and haven't really had too many problems. One woman pulled out in front of me two close, one guy right turned in front of me also cutting me up and had I blindly been crossing the turn I would have hit him...he acknowledged he was being a nob when I shouted at him. My point being if I didn't expect the worst when approaching junctions turns or difficult spots then I would probably get annoyed but I try to anticipate the worst I can from drivers. That said I also try to position myself safely at points I expect to be really dangerous to ensure I am totally safe i.e. wider in the lane in big junctions where a driver might stupidly try and squeeze between me and the cars in the other lane at the lights.

Personally i think although its right that you are a road user and should have the same respect you know as well as I do that you don't. You are smaller, easier to hit and will come off worse so you have to have your wits about you. Luckily you can also stop and change direction much quicker.

I personally give way when its appropriate and all I can say in your situation is if its an open road then if she is close enough to overtake before you are taking the turn and you are 50 yards out I would have probably waited for them to pass before going out....depends you can only say given the situation.

redddraggon

thamacdaddy wrote:

I personally give way when its appropriate and all I can say in your situation is if its an open road then if she is close enough to overtake before you are taking the turn and you are 50 yards out I would have probably waited for them to pass before going out....depends you can only say given the situation.

The Road was 50yards long, I was 15-20 yards from the junction and preparing to make the turn before she was even on the road, but still assumes that becuase I'm on a bike she has the right to pass no matter the situation.

thamacdaddy

Then just flip her the bird and call her a d*** job done...

people do assume that you don't matter, they think cars have automatic right of way. You seem suprised by this?

I guess it is a little frustrating but there are a lot of things in life that aren't right....I have found most drivers even when they do really stupid stuff at least acknowledge they are wrong...i usually do give them a sly smile though. I did have one guy speed up and think he could turn left into a street I was crossing last night and stopped last min....he didn't get a sly smile mor like the worst "you sir are a class a pr***" look but at least I am living to tell the tale.

Its weird only been back at it a few weeks not a day goes by that you don't see bad driving but I think this is the same on bike or not.

You were defo not in the wrong they were and it shouldn't make you change how you ride just gotta expect soem peolle are gonna do very stupid stuff and try and make sure you get from a to b safely.

bianco

I had the same yesterday, it was the first ride on the road for my missus, shes normally not confident enough and pavement rides,.

Anyway about 10 metres before junction I looked behind and there was a 20-30 metre gap between us and the following car so Pulled into middle of the road and indicated right and informed my missus she should be doing same as I was protecting her from behind.

We were both in centre of road about to turn when the car zooms past on the right frightening the life out of us and scaring her off her bike.

It took me 2 months to build up her confidence to ride on the road and now she swears she'll never do it again.

Now in the car drivers POV we were doing 5 mph as I say, my missus is only a beginner, but still, come on!

CarKiller

A driver acknowledging they were being a nob?????

Where is this person? They are unique in the world!

Porgy

there's a stretch of road through Woolwich Common - used to be on my commute. I'd easily get up to 30 and over goign down the hill except that cars and trucks would try to pass me - and then slow down after passing (!!) forcing me to put my brakes on. Sometimes they'd cut me up dangerously to do this!

I tried everything to stop this - but most drivers were prepared to go into the oncoming lane in order to pass me - and prepared to exceed the speed limit to whatever was required, and then slamming the anchors on in front of me to stay within the speed limit.

I'd be constantly braking and dropping back to a safe distance behind these vehicles once they'd overtaken.

Frustrating really. Especially as I nearly always passed them again at lights - jut so they can do the same to me a second time.

I asked a bloke at work about this - I knew he didn;t really like cyclists. He said he would always overtake a cyclist under any circumstances because he considered that it is too dangerous for a cyclist to be ahead of a car!!

I couldn;t get him to explain this, and failed to get him to see reason here. He also took the view that cyclists should go round the far edge of roundabouts no matter how dangerous or inconvenient because - again - his view was that it was too dangerous for cyclists to use the roundabout as a car would. this meant he could justify cutting cyclists up! Again - no logic!

Are many motorists this irrational? I fear that they are.

simon_e

This kind of thing happens regularly, I'm getting resigned to it (or, more accurately, prepared for it). I ride at least a metre from the kerb and do all the right stuff, but so many car/van/truck drivers can't help but cut you up in their haste to get 3 seconds further up the road. It's as if we are a nuisance and aren't really meant to be there, yet it's obvious to me that we deserve as much room as anyone else (as per Highway Code rule 188/189)

This morning two drivers passed me and immediately indicated left (using indicators! A nice bonus) to turn into a side road. The rear of the second car was level with the front of my bike, not too suprisingly I wasn't too happy about it.

But don't be pushed into the gutter, that just makes them worse. Bright clothing might help make you more noticeable*, my wife says the sticky-out red plastic thing she has fitted on her bike makes a difference to the amount of room she is given.

* I have a casual theory that hi-viz or a bright jersey draws attention and may allow myopic / sleepy / inattentive drivers to be aware and possibly do the right thing. It won't do anything for the b*stards that cut people up routinely.

Hairy Jock

Porgy wrote:

there's a stretch of road through Woolwich Common - used to be on my commute. I'd easily get up to 30 and over goign down the hill except that cars and trucks would try to pass me - and then slow down after passing (!!) forcing me to put my brakes on. Sometimes they'd cut me up dangerously to do this!

I tried everything to stop this - but most drivers were prepared to go into the oncoming lane in order to pass me - and prepared to exceed the speed limit to whatever was required, and then slamming the anchors on in front of me to stay within the speed limit.

I'd be constantly braking and dropping back to a safe distance behind these vehicles once they'd overtaken.

Frustrating really. Especially as I nearly always passed them again at lights - jut so they can do the same to me a second time.

I asked a bloke at work about this - I knew he didn;t really like cyclists. He said he would always overtake a cyclist under any circumstances because he considered that it is too dangerous for a cyclist to be ahead of a car!!

I couldn;t get him to explain this, and failed to get him to see reason here. He also took the view that cyclists should go round the far edge of roundabouts no matter how dangerous or inconvenient because - again - his view was that it was too dangerous for cyclists to use the roundabout as a car would. this meant he could justify cutting cyclists up! Again - no logic!

Are many motorists this irrational? I fear that they are.

There is a section on my commute where I regularly get up to 30mph, the roads ends in a T-junction. So as I get to 300-200m from the end I signal right and move to the right, then slow down. I have had a car over take me after I had signalled right, then turn left, total stupidity. :evil:

PrettyBoyTim

I'm sure I heard someone else on this forum mention the First Rule Of Motoring:

"Always Overtake a Cyclist"

However, I've also noticed a corollary: The First Rule Of Cyclists:

"Always Squeeze Through Any Available Gap"

Obviously, like the First Rule Of Motoring, there are sensible cyclists (like, I'm sure, everybody on this forum) who don't obey that rule, but I'm always surprised at the number of times I see cyclists squeezing around small gaps between vehicles when those vehicles are obviously about to move, and I've only been doing this cycle commuting lark for three weeks!

An example that leaps immediately to mind happened as I came up to a T-junction. A bus was turing right, and being a big vehicle needed some space in both lanes of the road he was turning in to to make the turn. Unfortunately a car had come up and was blocking the movement of the bus, and it was stuck at about 45 degrees while the car driver realised what was needed and reversed to give the bus room to turn. Now, the front of the bus was right beside the curb, and I watched as a cyclist came up and started squeezing past. Obviously, as the bus was at 45 degrees he was right in the bus driver's blind spot and the bus started to move as he was squeezing past, stopping suddenly when he saw the cyclist. The cyclist was shouting abuse over his shoulder at the bus driver as he continued on. I was gobsmacked. It was obvious that the bus would probably continue his turn into the road and that the cyclist wouldn't have been visible to him as he inched past, but the guy on the bike just *had* to keep moving...

Crazy!

MentalRaver

PrettyBoyTim wrote:

but the guy on the bike just *had* to keep moving...

Crazy!

It's a funny, addictive wayof riding. You get your momentum and pace, and you just don't wanna stop.

I'm thinking more and more about stopping this. I still do it sometimes, but think I need to think and do it more. :oops:

Clever Pun

Simon E wrote:

This morning two drivers passed me and immediately indicated left (using indicators! A nice bonus) to turn into a side road. The rear of the second car was level with the front of my bike, not too suprisingly I wasn't too happy about it.

That seriously yanks my chain, I actually had to turn with someone because they cut me up so tight then having to break to turn across me, I did manage to scratch her car with my cleat quite pleasingly while swearing blue murder at the stupid bint. The poor bloke walking his dog was a little surprised by the "you Fu<king C***" shouting...

Kaipaith

MentalRaver wrote:

PrettyBoyTim wrote:

but the guy on the bike just *had* to keep moving...

Crazy!

It's a funny, addictive wayof riding. You get your momentum and pace, and you just don't wanna stop.

I'm thinking more and more about stopping this. I still do it sometimes, but think I need to think and do it more. :oops:

It's odd, but I've never been tempted to ride like that.

As per my earlier posts, I'm new to the world of commuting. However whenever I've ridden before (and I have done some relatively long distances, but not for a few years) I've always been more concerned about safety rather than timing. I'm the same when driving. Once, in haste, I pulled out to overtake someone and had a VERY near miss with an oncoming driver. It was very stupid, and I haven't done it since... but I know people who have done similar several times, and think nothing of it. If anything, they actually gloat about it.

Personally, I'd much rather arrive late.

Maybe I just paid too much attention to the Tortoise and Hare story as a child.

domtyler

Being able to slip through tiny gaps is what urban cycling is all about though, and it's great fun too. Especially at high speed :twisted:
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Kaipaith

domtyler wrote:

Being able to slip through tiny gaps is what urban cycling is all about though, and it's great fun too. Especially at high speed :twisted:

Gaps is fine... but where vehicles are maneouvering? That's not fun, that's either taking the mick out of the driver who has their attention full, or just bloody dangerous on your own behalf.

I've got no qualms about slipping between traffic etc., but still!

redddraggon

I'm new to proper cycling, I always wanted to get a decent bike but my parents always stood against me. I spent my second year of university living with a really serious road cyclist, and I used to enjoy my arguments with him about what was best rugby or cycling.

Now I'm on my placement year for my degree, and my only options to get to work (only 6 miles) is the bus (well 2 buses) and they take from door-to-door about an hour, and the timetable was poor and it was costing me £6 a day - so I went for a bike. I enjoy cycling, enough to go for an expensive bike after xmas, but traffic spoils the sport. At least playing rugby I didn't have to worry about other peoples incompetance.

Though the traffic situation I think is an english problem, when I go home to North Wales I get miles and miles of quiet roads with better behaved traffic - I can go out anytime of day and have an enjoyable ride - in Warrington where I'm living while on my place the traffic is ridiculus. I have to go out before 7 to avoid the traffic and enjoy my ride both during the week and at the weekends. There's too many traffic lights and none where they really need them - at home I can go for 10s of miles before meeting any lights.

Kaipaith

redddraggon wrote:

Now I'm on my placement year for my degree, and my only options to get to work (only 6 miles) is the bus (well 2 buses) and they take from door-to-door about an hour

Disregarding the bike for a second, how long would it take you to walk?

An hour for a six mile journey seems a bit excessive to me (again, as a newbie) to even walk considering that a relatively fit person should be able to walk a mile between ten and twenty minutes... which means that you would be able to walk your route in not much longer than the bus takes you, if you put your head down.

You wouldn't need to worry about idiots doing stupid stuff (So much) and you would still get to your destination in reasonable time.

Back to the bike, I'm sure you would do it quicker - for my 11 mile journey people keep telling me to aim for an hour or so.

But the main question that strikes me, is why did your parents stand against you having a decent bike?

redddraggon

Kaipaith wrote:

Disregarding the bike for a second, how long would it take you to walk?

Average walking speed is 3miles an hour, so it could take it upto 2 hours.

At a push I could do it in 1.30, but that's quite a high pace. I'd consider walking upto 2miles but anymore than that and it starts to take too long.

redddraggon

Kaipaith wrote:

An hour for a six mile journey seems a bit excessive to me (again, as a newbie) to even walk considering that a relatively fit person should be able to walk a mile between ten and twenty minutes... which means that you would be able to walk your route in not much longer than the bus takes you, if you put your head down.

I don't really fancy walking 12miles a day. I found that going by bus with it costing 50p a mile, and averaging about 6miles a day disgusting. People will never use public transport if that's what it's like. I can cycle in about 30mins, and that's not really pushing it, so it's the best way.