Clean Riders

LangerDan

(Partly triggered by Barronbike's comment in the "Pure Climbers" thread)

Over the past few days, there have been many comments about riders who are considered "clean". I don't want to get into a discussion on names but more why they are assumed to be clean.

"They haven't tested positive" - True, but not testing positive isn't the sole preserve of clean riders, unfortunatley.

"They've signed the UCI pledge" - Err, right

"They ride for teams that have an enhanced drug testing programme" - A better indication but still no guarantee. Are riders in other teams automatically "dirty" and what about the likes of Sinkewitz from a "clean" team.

"They tell us they are clean and make stements opposing drug use" - Sort of like Flo-Jo, or even Millar 8 years ago.

Much of it comes down to our personal liking for a rider - do you appreciate his style of riding, is he a fellow countryman, do you know him, have met him, raced against him. It is very difficult to assume that rider is dirty, particularly if he has been a sporting hero of yours.

I personally think that much of it comes down to something as intangible as reputation. Given that riders spend so much time during the year in each others company, they will generally be aware if someone is clean. This does imply though that the peleton also know who is doping yet chose to remain quiet, at least until the rider in question is caught and the bunch can start wringing their hands.

Bronzie

As you say, certain riders get a "reputation" for being clean, although the likes of you and me are never going to know with any certainty what the truth is. Where this reputation comes from I don't know...............as you say, the riders must have a pretty good idea of who's up to no good, but it didn't stop Moreni or Sinkewitz pulling the wool over their team mates eyes.

I used to think Millar was a beacon of light in a sea of filth...................when he confessed to doping it hit me pretty hard. I now think the same of Wiggins, and as others have said in many other threads, if one of these guys does ever fails a test, then that little glimmer of hope that things can be turned around will be gone forever in my view.

iainf72

Agreed with the points here. And you can apply things both ways.

How about I try build an exteme case :

If you take Wiggins as a good example, you could say his pursuit performances are unbelievably good but he can't perform on the road. Do the BCF "prepare" him better for the track because they want lottery cash? And he's got a TUE for his asthma medication (a pro with asthma? No chance!) and is on a team with obviously lax doping controls (failed test this week)

It's so easy to add 2 and 2 and get 29031.

skut

Arrrgh. Will someone in the media please ask Bradley why he's got a TUE for an inhaler? It's driving me NUTS!!!

Also, why is Brad so convinced that Thor is clean? He probably hardly knows the guy.

LangerDan - most of what you say is true, but I don't think riders necessarily spend that much time with each other.

RichN95.

skut wrote:

Arrrgh. Will someone in the media please ask Bradley why he's got a TUE for an inhaler? It's driving me NUTS!!!

Also, why is Brad so convinced that Thor is clean? He probably hardly knows the guy.

LangerDan - most of what you say is true, but I don't think riders necessarily spend that much time with each other.

Asthma - it's very common in endurance athletes. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_asthma

Wiggins and Hushovd - they were both at Credit Agricole at the same time (2005).

redbicycle

well, all good points. Bottom line is this - no one posting on any cycling forums knows anything about who does what! I think the riders proabably hear a lot and are probably right a fair amount of the time but as someone pointed out - they never see each other except for stage races! The whole doping thing is a farce - not just because of the dopers but because of the hypocrisy of the cycling fans who become outraged over it in one instant but at the same time wax nostalgic over their fallen heroes.

Pantani was a dope cheat - he has a memorial erected to him in Italy. Tom Simpson took drugs and raced his bike - there is a memorial to him on the Ventoux. Richard Virenque is a convicted drug cheat who is a French national treasure (is he giving back the polka dot jersey's he won?). And on it goes... We can't have it both ways as fans of the sport - we can't decry the guilty and then celebrate them simultaneoulsy. I like David Millar - I really do - but he used drugs and 'came clean' after he was caught red-handed. I personally think it's good he got caught - do you think he would have admitted otherwise? Not likely, but now he has a real chance to make a difference and I hope he does...

Bronzie

redbicycle wrote:

as someone pointed out - they never see each other except for stage races!

This is a very good point. In his press conference yesterday, I think Brad said he'd only met Moreni once before.

The squads these days are pretty big, 25+ riders in some teams, and much of the time, they only come together for races here and there and very few would spend hours in each others company. No doubt most riders have a core 3-4 in their squad that they know pretty well, but a lot of the others are probably peripheral characters.

It would be fairly easy for someone to dose with testosterone patches without raising suspicion - but blood doping is another matter - in my view, this needs team support to arrange in order to take the blood initially, store it away from the race, bring it to the race without arousing suspicion and then transfusing it.

LangerDan

Yet , among others, Millar and Wiggins can make definitive statements about that fact that Thomas, Cav , Boonen, Uncle Tom Cobbley and certain other riders are clean.

Johnpsanderson

Bottom line is this - no one posting on any cycling forums knows anything about who does what!

Probably the truest thing i've ever read on a forum - unless Willy Voets is on here anywhere?

I'm glad that - although I love cycling - i'm only a half hearted fan of the professional sport, otherwise this week would have probably devastated me. With so many riders testing positive it makes you wonder if any of them are 'clean'. Of course we will never know but it is really a shame for the sport.

skut

LangerDan wrote:

Yet , among others, Millar and Wiggins can make definitive statements about that fact that Thomas, Cav , Boonen, Uncle Tom Cobbley and certain other riders are clean.

Which was exactly my point about Brad claiming Thor Hushovd was clean. How does he know?

LangerDan

skut wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

Yet , among others, Millar and Wiggins can make definitive statements about that fact that Thomas, Cav , Boonen, Uncle Tom Cobbley and certain other riders are clean.

Which was exactly my point about Brad claiming Thor Hushovd was clean. How does he know?

He doesn't, but when you are a skinny tester you don't want to say anything that will p!ss off an 80kg sprinter.

squired

Didn't Bradley ride on the same team as Thor a couple of years ago (possibly even acting as part of his leadout)? Also, I'm sure these guys forge friendships with certain people, or through conversations hear things about others. Also, as so many people involved in the sport have said, they generally know who is doing stuff and who isn't.