DULL AS DISHWATER !!

steveaguy130169

Maybe its me but take Rassmussen and Vinokourv out of the tour ( and Contador aside ) its been as dull as dishwater on some days !
No excuses for Vino, hes posative and thus has to go, Rass, well not looking good but he certainly livened up the race whilst here thats for sure.
Minus these 2 ( and contador ) and the mountain stages would be (almost ) has boring as yesterdays stage.

Imagine seeing evans, lepiheimer and Zubeldia slugging it out yawn !

If this is the price we have to pay for a clean sport so be it, but it seems to me the "casual " viewer is going to be turned off either way.... either through the cheating or
the complete and utter lack of action some days.

I

skut

Please go away

The Dr

Steveaguy130169...I think it is you. Why doi you feel the need to come on here and tell us how dull and boring everything is?! Of course Rasmussen and Vino are going to find it easy to attck all the time. They're cheats! Oh and Skut, you're right on the money!

steveaguy130169

The Dr wrote:

Steveaguy130169...I think it is you. Why doi you feel the need to come on here and tell us how dull and boring everything is?! Of course Rasmussen and Vino are going to find it easy to attck all the time. They're cheats! Oh and Skut, you're right on the money!

pardon me didnt realise Rasmussen had been proved guilty of anything yet.. oh and skut drop off a cliff !

steveaguy130169

both of you at the same time please haha :twisted:

PeteinSQ

You can't have riders like Rasmussen in the tour when there is a huge cloud hanging over them.

How do you know it would be dull without Rasmussen and Vino? Unfortunately the mountain stages have all been completed now. If they hadn't been there from the start Evans, Leipheimer and Contador would have all been at the head of affairs and would have attacked each other. The overall speed would probably have been a smidgen slower but you wouldn't have noticed.

Its like saying this year's tour has been dull without Basso and Ulrich. In other words, nonsense.

steveaguy130169

PeteinSQ wrote:

You can't have riders like Rasmussen in the tour when there is a huge cloud hanging over them.
I'd prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," said LeMond, a winner in 1986, 1989 and 1990. "It's more symbolic."

How do you know it would be dull without Rasmussen and Vino? Unfortunately the mountain stages have all been completed now. If they hadn't been there from the start Evans, Leipheimer and Contador would have all been at the head of affairs and would have attacked each other. The overall speed would probably have been a smidgen slower but you wouldn't have noticed.

Its like saying this year's tour has been dull without Basso and Ulrich. In other words, nonsense.

I agree but surely the authorities must liaise more closely together to avoid this, for me rasmussen was allowed to participate, and if all authorities DID have prior knowledge then they are as much to blame as he is....,I remem ber being at the vuelta the day Heras caught and took over Menchov, it was fantastic to watch .. and now we know why, but at the time it was spellbinding .just like pantani , or Basso,s exploits last year .

All have proven to be " assisted " performances , but it makes them no less spectacular to watch at the time does it

All i,m suggesting is that we wil have to live with less exciting viewing by a clean field..
a price that must be paid yes, but we has an ordiance must lower our expectations inline with this.

PeteinSQ

All i,m suggesting is that we wil have to live with less exciting viewing by a clean field..

I would dispute that they will be less exciting. People will still be overtaking people and dropping them on the mountains, it would just be down to natural ability and training. The only sacrifice would be average speed.

CarlosFerreiro

With a clean field, woud there not tend to be more day to day variation in performance, with riders having one great day, but struggling to come back the following one? I would expect that might lead to more see-saw battles for GC day to day, with attacks more likely to succeed, but also more likely to be paid for later?

PeteinSQ

That's probably true, but the riders would have to be more considered in their approach and take that into consideration.

Of course when someone attacks on a big climb the other contenders try to go with him so they are going to be tired also.

Ste_S

steveaguy130169 wrote:

If this is the price we have to pay for a clean sport so be it, but it seems to me the "casual " viewer is going to be turned off either way.... either through the cheating or
the complete and utter lack of action some days.

Wrong. You have a two tier system at the moment, guys who are juiced and the clean riders at their limits hanging onto their coat tails.

Take away the juiced riders and you'll have a level playing field, with the peloton riding at a slower pace up the mountains thus allowing for accelerations of the front.

Watched any BC Premier Calender ? It's slower than the TdF, but still has exciting racing.

steveaguy130169

Ste_S wrote:

steveaguy130169 wrote:

If this is the price we have to pay for a clean sport so be it, but it seems to me the "casual " viewer is going to be turned off either way.... either through the cheating or
the complete and utter lack of action some days.

Wrong. You have a two tier system at the moment, guys who are juiced and the clean riders at their limits hanging onto their coat tails.

Take away the juiced riders and you'll have a level playing field, with the peloton riding at a slower pace up the mountains thus allowing for accelerations of the front.

Watched any BC Premier Calender ? It's slower than the TdF, but still has exciting racing.

with the greatest repect the premier calender is raced over hills not mountains .. its god racing yes, but surely its these great climbs that make the grand tours so exciting to watch.. theres always been a two tier system, its just that now it appears to be more obvious, or if someone puts in a great performance they are immeadiatly tarred with the doping brush.. come to think of it when was the last great climbing performance in a grand tour made without a hint of suspicion ( minus soler obviously ! )

Ste_S

steveaguy130169 wrote:

with the greatest repect the premier calender is raced over hills not mountains .. its god racing yes, but surely its these great climbs that make the grand tours so exciting to watch..

Aye, my point was that non juiced racing can still be exciting. You'll still have clean riders attacking and going off the front on Col's with a level playing field,

steveaguy130169 wrote:

theres always been a two tier system, its just that now it appears to be more obvious, or if someone puts in a great performance they are immeadiatly tarred with the doping brush.. come to think of it when was the last great climbing performance in a grand tour made without a hint of suspicion ( minus soler obviously ! )

Hamstein on the '88 Giro over the Gavia Pass ?

squired

The racing being dull is more down to the modern style of racing than anything else as far as I'm concerned. I think back to the tape I have of the 1989 Tour, or other Tours from that era. People going for GC wouldn't wait for the last 5km of the final climb before doing anything. They would go for broke. In the last few years the style of racing has totally changed. It is all about getting as many of your team as possible to the base of the final climb, which leads to less excitement in my opinion. Unfortunately this is a problem in many sports at the moment - they start becoming more calculated about what they do, which generally leads to less excitement.

steveaguy130169

squired wrote:

The racing being dull is more down to the modern style of racing than anything else as far as I'm concerned. I think back to the tape I have of the 1989 Tour, or other Tours from that era. People going for GC wouldn't wait for the last 5km of the final climb before doing anything. They would go for broke. In the last few years the style of racing has totally changed. It is all about getting as many of your team as possible to the base of the final climb, which leads to less excitement in my opinion. Unfortunately this is a problem in many sports at the moment - they start becoming more calculated about what they do, which generally leads to less excitement.

yes i,m afraid i must agree, the days of chapppuci seem long gone now ( unless we,re counting stage 17 last year !! )

get rid of these earpieces .. or should that be another dicussion ?

Max Weber

Unfortunately this is a problem in many sports at the moment - they start becoming more calculated about what they do, which generally leads to less excitement.

Wise words. The increasingly scientific and stats-based analysis in sport has led people to realise that in many situations, conservatism is the way to success. He who makes the least mistakes usually beats the attacking maverick. In cycling the example of getting as many team-mates as possible to the base of the final climb is obvious, as is the influence of radio links. In rugby it's been recognised in the last 10 years that missed tackles lose far more points than clean breaks gain. Thus there's a lack of creative backs and an abundance of muscle-bound automatons. In football weak teams have realised that if you put 10 men behind the ball, mark properly and hold your shape you won't get beaten very easily - hence why even the minor nations don't lose by more than 4 goals very often.