Should the 07 Tour just stop now?

iainf72

I am leaning towards the "stop it now" camp.

What kind of victory would it be for Contador or Evans if they ddi win. It would be so tarnised it wouldn't be funny.

What does everyone think?

Ok, keeping going shows you're bigger than the problems but still, how much more damage can the brand take?

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

I am leaning towards the "stop it now" camp.

What kind of victory would it be for Contador or Evans if they ddi win. It would be so tarnised it wouldn't be funny.

What does everyone think?

Ok, keeping going shows you're bigger than the problems but still, how much more damage can the brand take?

Me too, I'd say bring the circus to a standstill before cycling gets hurt further. The Tour is doing awful damage to cycling. I see the IOC are going to seriously review cycling's place in the Olympics from 2009.

shazzz

I'm off to Paris on Friday and am not really looking forward to it. I can't quite bring myself to support the idea of stopping the tour, though. In a way, I think the procession to Paris with a massive dark cloud hanging over the tour will help increase the pressure on those involved to clean it up. More so than cancelling it and disappearing into the background.

alang498

What a complete downer after 3 days of elation in the UK - where the hell does cycling go from here.

I would love to support my LBS but they only sell bikes and cycling accessories - no steroids, no testosterone, and do not even have my blood group in stock.

Moose11

No, it should go on. Cannot let the cheats win and theres to many fans have planned to be at the final 3-4 stages to just cut it short. It might seem like a shallow win for whoever does win it but then again if clean then they are the deserved winners.

LangerDan

I'm not sure. Why is this Tour any dirtier than , well, any GT, to be honest. The only reason I'd like to see it stopped is that I wouldn't trust any rider at this stage.
Tell you what, let them finish and DO NOT award a single jersey on Sunday. Not one. Let the riders come into Paris and see the podum disappearing on the back of a truck. Not only am I sick of the dopers but also of the "clean" riders who see, hear and speak no evil despite sharing a significant prortion of their lives in the same space as those caught.

lucretius

It's time for people like Boonen and Voigt as the respected leaders to stand up and make a real statement and have a go slow day today. Not just one team, not just the French and German, but the whole pelaton.

They could also announce that ALL riders will be tested today and see how many fail to complete the stage.

SteveR_100Milers

NO, I think at last maybe we might have a clean winner. Had this happened after the event then it would have been a hollow victory and a pointless race, as last year's event was. As it stands if Leipi or Evans wins then at least they can be considered worthy winners (on the strong evidence that they haven't cheated) irrespective of whether you like them or not. In some ways this could be the most refreshing tour in years. I think Rabobank should be aplauded for doing what they have done, its about tme the teams took a zero tolerance stance. not so many years ago (last year?) Ras would still be in the race, and would have won. Maybe even Vino would still be there..is ignorance bliss? Well makes a good spectacle for the non racers who really don't see the full picture..

skavanagh.bikeradar

Hmmm, I like the tone of these posting and agree about the absence of Jerseys and a go slow with full testing for all at the end of it. I wonder how many 'tummy bugs' we'd see?

lateralus

LangerDan wrote:

I'm not sure. Why is this Tour any dirtier than , well, any GT, to be honest. The only reason I'd like to see it stopped is that I wouldn't trust any rider at this stage.
Tell you what, let them finish and DO NOT award a single jersey on Sunday. Not one. Let the riders come into Paris and see the podum disappearing on the back of a truck. Not only am I sick of the dopers but also of the "clean" riders who see, hear and speak no evil despite sharing a significant prortion of their lives in the same space as those caught.

Well said. Perhaps the best way to get the message through to the teams, sponsors and UCI (who have, between them, allowed this mess to go on for years), would be for a large and angry crowd to jeer the peloton around the Champs Elysees on Sunday. If you're going, take a big anti doping banner.

skavanagh.bikeradar

This may well happen lateralus at the rate they are going.

mrushton

Dave_1 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I am leaning towards the "stop it now" camp.

What kind of victory would it be for Contador or Evans if they ddi win. It would be so tarnised it wouldn't be funny.

What does everyone think?

Ok, keeping going shows you're bigger than the problems but still, how much more damage can the brand take?

Me too, I'd say bring the circus to a standstill before cycling gets hurt further. The Tour is doing awful damage to cycling. I see the IOC are going to seriously review cycling's place in the Olympics from 2009.

Yet the IOC have allowed athletics/weight-lifting etc to remain Olympic events despite drug use being endemic in these sports. They even allow certain records to stand even tho' they were set by people under suspicion. Florence Griffiths set a couple of womens records that still stand and she died under a cloud of suspected drug use. Gary player, one of the greatest golfers ever has recently commented on drug-use by golfers but the US Pro Golf Association says there is no problem. Either allowdrug use in all sport and regulate it or test ALL professional sports people using set methods and allow no-one to escape.

Bronzie

The really sad thing is that we've been here before....................the 1998 Tour was supposed to be the watershed, but the opportunity to grasp the nettle was not taken - not by the teams, the riders or the governing bodies. The endemic doping was allowed to continue, with a nudge and a wink by all concerned.

I think the Tour should be allowed to finish in Paris, but it will be a very hollow victory once again. With all that's gone on, who truly believes that any of the other top 10 on GC are whiter than white. The trouble is, everyone is under suspiscion.

Is this finally the watershed the sport has needed all along? Time will tell.

wpdoolan

the only way to really impact this is for the tour to go on but all spectators and tv/radio boycott the rest of it

I feel sorry for the French institution of the tour but I have no sympathy for the riders. Next year will be interesting as I doubt there will be any sponsors there, who would want to get involved in this sport.

floatman

the tour is so much bigger than the current riders and doping issues and of course it should continue .. it is an institution.

Despite not having an acknowledged winner last year the streets this year were still packed in London and the mountains jam packed with supporters. and they will be next year as well.

Teams will find it more difficult to find sponsors (but do remember that the Festina affair in 98 was shown to have dramatically boosted Festina's name recognition AND sales .... note that they are also the official time keepers at the tour today) - but difficulty in finding sponsors will have the effect of depressing rider salaries not necessarily reducing the number of willing riders.... or teams. I wholeheartedly support the principle of collective responsibility which seems to be appaearing .. it would appear to be the only way that the wall of silence will be broken.

AndyGates

End early and you're admitting the caught athletes have disrupted everything: the rot is too deep, we have to pack up shop and try again next year. If you cancel now, you're saying every rider is dirty.

How utterly pathetic.

Finish it. The win will be tarnished, but no more tarnished than a Grand Prix where the obvious winner had an unfortunate mechanical.

Cancelling now would be utterly wrong.

lucretius

If nothing else it's really exciting. Can Evans blow Contador out on the time trial? Will either of them attempt to get some sprint seconds? I think it's too close to call, it could be down to 30 seconds in the end.

Is Contador dodgy? Are Disco dodgy? I don't know, but until proved otherwise at least they've given me some entertainment and some attacking riding to watch.

Evans I think is clean so I think he'll be at least 2nd in the GC which i'm sure he'd have been pleased with before the start. I can't wait for the time trial.

Eurostar

I think there's a good chance Contador will be forced out in the next couple of days, Evans will win, and everybody will celebrate that we have a worthy, clean winner.

If Contador wins we could have another Landis scenario...

lucretius

If Contador gets kicked and Hunter grabs a couple of stages that could leave Barloworld with 3 jerseys at the end of the tour. OK so Boonan is going to keep Green, but that's still a possible 2 jerseys for them.

I think i'm also right in thinking that as Contador is in yellow and Soler in spots that leave Txurruka (spelling) in white today. That's great news for Euskatel.

Guyzie

I'd like to see the Tour completed, hopefully with a clean rider in yellow (Cadel?).

These last few days have been so disappointing (yet almost predictable).
I took my 8 and 10 year old sons up to London for the prologue, they loved it. Totally in awe of the speed and cheering every rider.
Now my eldest is asking why would (some of) these guys take drugs when they're likely to get caught, don't they worry about their future health, etc.. He even asked how could LA beat all the guys if they were on drugs!? I want to believe in LA but it's getting harder, Dr F and all:-(

I'm glad to see some teams talking about taking legal action for lost publicity and would really like to hear that some of these dopers had been given a right good kicking by some of their (clean) pissed off team mates as Jérôme Pineau (Bouygues Telecom) alluded too.

Finally, I wish I'd stuck a stick through Vino's spokes as he rode past in Hyde Park. Ok, it would need to be a strong stick for those carbon spokes, but you get the idea.

Rant over,
G

jimmythecuckoo

I thought Cadel was amazing yesterday, the way he dug in with raw determination makes me think that even through all of this, the spirit of the Tour lives on.

andrewc3142

No, of course not.

I'd agree that next year sponsors/TV coverage are likely to be more limited, but there does seem to be some kind of watershed going on here.

Rather than the knee jerk ban for life reaction, to clean it up means having more poachers turning gamekeepers, a la DM, not necessarily being allowed to carry on racing short term though. The problem seems to me not to be a few riders but institutional, involving the teams and various shady characters, and the governing bodies, which have either turned a blind eye or been insufficiently pro-active for far, far too long.

I was gutted when Vino tested positive - I'd been rooting for him the previous day (hoping it was unaided ...). Of course, he is not blameless, but the hate and vitriol shown towards him has been unpleasant and spiteful, to the point where I feel sorry for the guy.

Plus, there needs to be far more encouragement for younger, clean riders coming through.

Perhaps the threat of cycling being thrown out of the Olympics will help to focus minds over the next few months.

To stop the Tour now would just be defeatist.

Moose11

andrewc3142 wrote:

Perhaps the threat of cycling being thrown out of the Olympics will help to focus minds over the next few months.

Just curious but were was this said?

If thrown out of the Olympics it would be a joke and I'd never watch the olympics again. Cycling is getting the scandle because it tests so heavily and isn't afraid to ban its stars. If althetics did the same they would have the same scandles. Chucking it out of the olympics for taking the biggest stance on drugs is hardly the right way to go.

Cyclo2000

Yes.

The Tour is null and void. Whoever is declared the winner has been outclassed by a withdrawn rider.

Evans? No chance! He'd have to attack to win and he can't or won't.
Contador? Whatever they've been giving him stopped working yesterday.
Leipheimer? Ha!

The race is finished for this year. Rasmussen won.

andrewc3142

Moose11 wrote:

Just curious but were was this said?

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/ ... y&cat=null

Moose11

I sorta responded to you in another post but I'll go again..

Cyclo2000 wrote:

The Tour is null and void. Whoever is declared the winner has been outclassed by a withdrawn rider.

Outclassed by a liar and cheat? He got fired by his team the second place guy takes the lead.

Cyclo2000 wrote:

Evans? No chance! He'd have to attack to win and he can't or won't.

You need the juice to attack as often as some of the others. Evans is busting himself just to hang in there. Kudos tohim.

Cyclo2000 wrote:

Contador? Whatever they've been giving him stopped working yesterday.

To be fair theres no evidence against him but I agree he does seem a little suspect but who knows, he's young and talented compared to the guys around him who were on the wrong side of their 'prime' years.

Cyclo2000 wrote:

Leipheimer? Ha!

See my comment about Evans.

The race is finished for this year. Rasmussen won.

Cyclo2000

Dunno where you get this liar and cheat bit from. Read millars comments on the reporting procedures. they seem archaic.

Despite everything, he was within the rules of the sport. END.

Suspect? well maybe but see above.

And Contador? He's young and talented yes, but he's also on the most deeply suspect team in the peleton.

I return to me point, Ras won. The others are second. Beaten. Horsed, in Evan's case.

Moose11

Cyclo2000 wrote:

Dunno where you get this liar and cheat bit from. Read millars comments on the reporting procedures. they seem archaic.

I get the liar part from the fact he told his team etc. he was in Mexico when he was in fact in Italy. You not been following this the past few days?

Cyclo2000 wrote:

Despite everything, he was within the rules of the sport. END.[/qupte]

But not within the rules of his team which he broke. END OF.

Cyclo2000 wrote:

And Contador? He's young and talented yes, but he's also on the most deeply suspect team in the peleton.

Show me the evidence that they are the most suspect team in the peleton.. I look forward to seeing you back that up. Have they failed a doping test in this Tour or previous Tours?

Cyclo2000 wrote:

I return to me point, Ras won. The others are second. Beaten. Horsed, in Evan's case.

You've got your opinion, you're entitled to it. Ras is out of the Tour regardless of the reasons why, there was 4 stages to go so for me the race is not yet won.

Cyclo2000

Fair enough Moose. Enjoyed the arguement anyway.

joeconway

In an article on this site Dan Friebe said of Alberto Contador

"I don't care much for his past association with Manolo Saiz, and there are other minus marks which I'll keep to myself, but I just adore the way Contador climbs." All of this could be said about Marco Pantani also.

If there are questions it is the duty of journalists to get them out in the open. The past two weeks have been disasterous for the sport we love. Its biggest show case has been reduced to a farce, where none of us knows who is clean. Sponors will pull out in their droves.

I would argue that in all likelihood cycling is no dirtier than some other sports, but that the efforts being made by the organisers and the various governing bodies are so much more than in other sports that a higher percentage of cheats are being found. Thats my hope in any case. However have the authorities gone far enough? Desperate times call for desparate measures to use a cliche.

The UCI should now put in place a life time ban for any cyclist proven guilty - no second chance. Plus any cyclist found doping on an event automatically results in his team being excluded immediately from that event and all further events for 12 months.

DNA profiling must become mandatory to getting your licence - if you are clean you will have nothing to fear.

As well as the official sanctions the UCI needs to build up a level of peer pressure to prevent cheats. If you know that one of your team is doping and if he is caught that you are effectively out for a year then I think the code of silence that exists might start to be broken. Also if a team is facing a 12 month ban, with all of the implications that has for sponsorship etc, they might be more vigourous in policing their riders.

I also think that coaches have to be sanctioned if one of the riders under their care is proven guilty. Coaches have a huge influence on their athletes and I doubt if any athlete who dopes does so without their coach either knowing it or suspecting it, so they have a role to play in cleaning up the sport.

The time has come to get tough, it will be painful for a while, but if we get a cleaner sport and heroes we can believe in it will be worth it.

Moose11

Cyclo2000 wrote:

Fair enough Moose. Enjoyed the arguement anyway.

I'll agree with you on that!