Carbon Faster than Aluminium ???
Comments
-
good to hear you have a plan ... and all that will definitely make you a stronger cyclist.
the reason i say it's a bit ask is because i got 8h50m and i feel that taking 25 miins off that for me is a big task for next year. i need a more structured training programme to do it, but i've done a fair amount of power work, got the weight down, the new bike etc. you'll realise each additional minute is harder to take off ...
but it's doable if you're committed enough.
finally, because the standards change i'd warn against going for silver as opposed to going for, say, the top 1000 finishers. but i know the appear of getting a medal!0 -
domtyler wrote:FFS, just give me your credit card details and I'll buy the bloody thing for you!!
What would you buy me :?:
My (current) budget is up to £2,000. So far I'm considering:
Giant SCR/TCR C3
Kuota Kharma
Orbea Opal
Pinarello F3:13
Specialized Tarmac/Roubaix Expert
Time Edge Racer
Trek Madone/Pilot 5.0/5.2
Willier Mortirola / IzoardRich0 -
RichA wrote:domtyler wrote:FFS, just give me your credit card details and I'll buy the bloody thing for you!!
What would you buy me :?:
My (current) budget is up to £2,000. So far I'm considering:
Giant SCR/TCR C3
Kuota Kharma
Orbea Opal
Pinarello F3:13
Specialized Tarmac/Roubaix Expert
Time Edge Racer
Trek Madone/Pilot 5.0/5.2
Willier Mortirola / Izoard
Go for the Pinarello F3:13, that's what I was going to buy, until Mrs EMD found out how much it was!!!! :oops:0 -
the best value would be a knocked down Madone (last year's model). if you can bear the whole lance heritage. F3:13 is the nicest i agree.
please don't buy another specialized or you'll be forever a pasty-legged brit who will be marked down for the broomer!
for that budget i'd be looking to get a DA or chorus group and some eurus level hoops.0 -
Someone on another post pointed out this find earlier:
http://www.cyclexpress.co.uk/.%2fProduc ... _Team.aspx
I would buy this frame, stick on your old groupset for now and maybe your existing wheels too depending on what they are. That would leave you with ??470 to put back in the bank for another day.
________
Tl1000r~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge not Petrol0 -
i wouldn't buy the cervelo! why?
- too many product recals
- shoddy finish
- becoming the new Madone ... yawn... stockbrockers' bike!!
- large diameter downtube overwhelms, meaning it only works aesthetically with deep section wheels.
it's a lovely frame, but not for me.
if you want outright performance for your etape assault, your £2k could do better.0 -
My preference is for Ultegra on any of the below.
I think (**) that, in descending order, my preferences are as follows:
Willier Mortirola [my favourite] or Izoard
Time Edge Racer [solid frame]
Pinarello F3:13 [nice but reviews not fantastic]
Specialized Tarmac/Roubaix Expert [Safe Option but well regarded and I know specialized]
Giant SCR/TCR C3 [Safe. Inspiring?]
Trek Madone/Pilot 5.0/5.2 [Safe. Inspiring?]
Orbea Opal [?]
Kuota Kharma [?]
** I reserve my right to change my mind...Rich0 -
good to see you're already making the main mistake of thinking it's all about the bike. 8)
joke!0 -
Timoid. wrote:RichA wrote:
Sure you are trying to help. But this kind of post winds me up... :evil:Timoid. wrote:On topic. A lardarse on a C50 will get beaten by a fit rider on a Halfords own brand. The most important thing is to get yourself fit and of course some nice wheels.
I am not a lardarse on a C50 or a fit bloke on a halfords own brand.
I am me. On either a Specialized Allez or a Planet X Pro Carbon.
Would ME on a a Specialized Allez get beaten by ME on a Planet X Pro Carbon???
I am fit, and intend to get fitter. I have some nice wheels
Who are you the Tyler Hamilton twins?
No offence intended. I just think people rely too much on shelling out dosh on gear and not enough time on training.
A carbon frame will not make you go significantly faster than an aluminium one. The main difference (in a well made Carbon bike) is one of comfort. If you can afford a good carbon bike, then by all means get one, but the difference in your times might be down to the fact that training is more pleasureable as the ride is more comfortable and so you put more miles in and get fitter.
Also a carbon bike with poxy wheels will go slower than an alu with good uns.
I totally agree with these comments, the comfort factor would be beneficial but not for speed.
0 -
Well how is this?? I took 2 WHOLE minutes off of my commute time this morning on my new carbon steed. 13 miles in 44 mins, 15 seconds in rush hour traffic, I'd say that's pretty fast, and my other bike is a Ambrosio Rapide Carbon (which is alu/carbon mix) which is hardly a budget bike!!0
-
I have an R3. It's seriously good. The finish is not as flash as some. The downtube is not as large as the Soloist range. When I got the frame out of the box, I was rather underwhelmed. It looked slightly odd. However, it looks really good once it is built up. I used Fulcrum racing 1s which are hardly deep section wheels.wildmoustache wrote:i wouldn't buy the cervelo! why?
- too many product recals
- shoddy finish
- becoming the new Madone ... yawn... stockbrockers' bike!!
- large diameter downtube overwhelms, meaning it only works aesthetically with deep section wheels.
it's a lovely frame, but not for me.
And I am not a stockbroker.....
There were a lot of R3's on the Marmotte this year. Actually I saw non time trial Cervelos of all types. By the time I got the Galibier though my interest in identifying bikes had waned. I concerntrated on breathing and not falling off 0 -
fenlandplodder wrote:
I have an R3. It's seriously good. The finish is not as flash as some. The downtube is not as large as the Soloist range. When I got the frame out of the box, I was rather underwhelmed. It looked slightly odd. However, it looks really good once it is built up. I used Fulcrum racing 1s which are hardly deep section wheels.wildmoustache wrote:i wouldn't buy the cervelo! why?
- too many product recals
- shoddy finish
- becoming the new Madone ... yawn... stockbrockers' bike!!
- large diameter downtube overwhelms, meaning it only works aesthetically with deep section wheels.
it's a lovely frame, but not for me.
And I am not a stockbroker.....
There were a lot of R3's on the Marmotte this year. Actually I saw non time trial Cervelos of all types. By the time I got the Galibier though my interest in identifying bikes had waned. I concerntrated on breathing and not falling off
i know it's a great frame, and my comments were slightly in jest. so far they've been totally reliable so it seems that cervelo has got this one right. i stand by my comment about them becoming a rich man's toy though ... they look the part and have earned quite a reputation due to CSC and their low weight. that would put me off, but each to their own. If I could afford another couple of bikes then the R3 SL would be in there!0 -
wildmoustache wrote:
i know it's a great frame, and my comments were slightly in jest. !
I suspected as much
A Cervelo was not on my list of frames to consider when I was trying to replace an Aluminium Litespeed frame. For variety of reasons, all the other frames I tried to get were unavailable or unsuitable. That left me with a shortage of time before the Marmotte with a lack of bike I would be willing to trust on the descents. So, with a bit of encouragement from grimpeur, I went for the R3. My capabilities are so limited it is like putting a 1962 engine from a Mini into a Porsche 911. So I was slightly concerned I spending way too much money for something that I'd find hard to ride. That proved false. The bike is more comfortable than I expected, faster up and down hill and on the flat than the Litespeed. And looks mighty fine
Basically it is close to perfect for me although at some cost....0 -
if I was goung to buy a new frame/bike the Pinarello F3:13 would win.0
-
Buy a new carbon bike - it will make you feel better. Unlike training which hurts. Even better buy a Mountain Bike and have some real fun instead of worrying about BMI, weight and all that shit*. Guiness is probably a good idea too.
As stated putting in the miles is most important, light wheels help and bikes of any material vary in quality and rigidity. But to answer your question CARBON IS BEST. If it's worth the money however is a purely personal decision and depends on how much you earn.
Personally I'm rich & successful and am therefore can buy one without having to justify it in terms of fitness levels or what some drug fuelled pro rides. I also like the idea of having a bike that's much better than me because then I'm the weakest link and I've got something to aim towards!
Don't listen to these Puritanical types and buy one. On balance they are faster.'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.0 -
Frame material is a very minor factor except for sprinting and short time trialling. In a sprint, you want the strongest material in the right areas of the bicycle with the least amount of flex possible whilst standing up on the pedals. Comfort is irrelevant to overall performance.
The real factors to speed over longer distances on a bicycle are:
(1) Fitting fitting and fitting. If I had £1,200 to spend on a custom built good-quality steel frame to my specific sizing or a factory made off-the-peg carbon frame, I would choose the custom-built frame every time. The custom-built frame would help me employ the right muscle groups in the right way and would reduce fatigue caused by discomfort. If you are riding with an inefficient posture or you are suffering back, neck, shoulder, buttock, knee, thigh or hamstring pain, you will go slower regardless of the weight of your frame or wheels.
(2) Quality of frame. A well made steel frame will be a better more efficient and faster ride than a low quality mass produced carbon frame, even if the carbon is slightly lighter.
I don't have any particular love of steel; I am just using it as an example of a relatively heavy material. If you can afford a custom sized good quality Ti or carbon frame - go for it.
The mass hysteria about frame materials is because bike manufacturers and bike shops want to sell lots of off-the-peg frames. So they hype up the differences in weight between different materials.
They are unlikely to tell you that you are better off spending the same money in a local workshop getting the size right.0 -
Terongi. Having a bike that fits is important but with many manufacturers having only 2cm jumps in frame size most of us can get a bike that fits well without having to fork out on custom bikes. What is important is going to a decent shop, put on the jig or whatever it's called and measured up properly. They'll then get the right sized frame, stem length etc. My bike isn't a custom but fits me fine and the same would be true of most average riders. Custom is a nice idea though.'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.0
-
yeah, i was going to say that terongi is right that fit is crucial, but overplays the custom benefits.
remember that as well as the frame size you have stem length, height, angle, handlebar height, drop, reach and width, crank length etc.
each frame can be made to fit a range of body sizes / proportions and maintain good handling.
also, fit tends to change a bit over time and it's hard for a custom fitter to know trule how you ride on the open road. custom will fit you on the day based on the perception of the fitter, but in reality may not be "perfect" after a few months of riding etc. Solution is normally to adjust finishing kit and components ... just as with a non-custom frame.
A custom frame is one way of ensuring that a frame, allowing for adjustments of the kit, will fit you, but so is having a bike-fitting session0 -
FWIW I am having a full bikefit done on Monday so that my current stees fits and my new bike can be the correct size.
I accept that a "well made steel frame will be a better more efficient and faster ride than a low quality mass produced carbon frame, even if the carbon is slightly lighter", however, I don't have a well made steel frame and am hoping that the carbon frame I buy won't be low quality...Rich0 -
My God you’re right!
I’ve just had a word with my next door neighbour who’s a scaffolder and we’ve built a bike out of scaffold tube and clips.
I’ve just ridden it around the block and I’d be hard pressed to tell the difference between that and my carbon fibre bike.
Oh why did I spend so much on carbon?
Now I’m just going to paint it with red lead and put the carbon bike on ebay.
Orders taken._______________________________________
I know I'm alright, the voices tell me so.
_______________________________________0 -
Here's a comment on bike fitting and comfort: both I and my Father had custom frames built from steel (531 - it was the 1980s after all) by a reputable builder in central England. Since then we 've tried various aluminium and carbon frames, with lots of steel in there to boot.
Now, we both agree that the off-the-peg frames are a better fit (particularly my off-the-peg Chas Roberts [steel]) and thus offer a more comfortable position. What is interesting is that the Principia Rex is considered (by both of us) to be the most comfortable frame we've tried.
We're both light and conventional wisdom states that oversized aluminium (a la Princip.) will not be comfortable.
So there you have it. What obviously matters, is what colour it is.0 -
RichA wrote:My preference is for Ultegra on any of the below.
Wilier Mortirola or Izoard [my favourites]
Time Edge First or Racer
Pinarello F3:13
Specialized Tarmac/Roubaix Expert
Giant SCR/TCR C3
Trek Madone/Pilot 5.0/5.2
Orbea Opal
Kuota Kharma
** I reserve my right to change my mind...
Hmmm. Disdappointed. Been told that the Wiliers are not ideal for my setup. Too Italian in shape (low front end).
So, next on the list are the Time Edge First & Edge Racer. Any thoughts on what these are like?Rich0 -
Hi RichA
I went from a Spesh Allez (elite) to a Look 585 this year. On my local 30km blast i have set indentical times on both bikes!! (literally to the second).
So i am not convinced the frame material made any difference, however having a fancy new bike makes me feel like going out riding more, which will help with the training.
I could afford the new bike, so what the hell. Sometimes on this site there is a bit of jealousy when someone wants to spend some dough on a new bike
So in summary, i dont think it will make u go much faster (maybe lighter bikes are better for climbing). Maybe u could spend the cash on a turbo and an extra holiday to the alps for training.
But if u want a new bike, go for it. Deffo the Time from your list. Maybe check out BMC (but i think they're rather expensive)0
