More Rasmussen accussations

iainf72

http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/news/a ... 851.0.html

I read about this in the Walsh book recently but didn't for a second think it might be the chicken.

Not what the Tour needs, not at all. I'm fed up with whistleblowers and their timing - If you've got something to say, be a sodding man and say it.

Moose11

I agree. I dont mind a whistleblower but why not say it at the time, why wait until the prime moment.. I guess it's money.

top_bhoy

iainf72 wrote:

http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/news/articles/12851.0.html

I read about this in the Walsh book recently but didn't for a second think it might be the chicken.

Not what the Tour needs, not at all. I'm fed up with whistleblowers and their timing - If you've got something to say, be a sodding man and say it.

I think Whitney Richards is telling the truth, the story stacks up and the reasons for not publicly outing Rasmussen earlier seem perfectly valid and that money is not an issue - after all Rasmussen has been KoM for the last 2 years. Rasmussen now has some explaining to do, even if no further action can be taken directly with him because of a lack of corrobatory evidence..

andyp

It's turning into something of a witch hunt, which is a shame as it's distracting from what could be one of the closest Tours in years.

Let's be honest, if you dug around a bit in the past of any of the current contenders then you'll probably turn up evidence of doping. It's what happens during this Tour and going forwards that is important, not what might of happened in the past.

sing_for_absolution

The timing of it bugs me a little. Apart from that, good on him. Some French forumers I know have always stated that The Chicken had a reputation during his MTB days.

Grifcp

I find the Dane's timing more irritating than this guy's. His story is both plausible and understandable, and if true, makes Ras a total low life in my book. Trying to dupe someone into carrying dubious products across boarders is not the act of a decent human being.

SteveR_100Milers

There'll be a lot more of this and not just with the chicken until the problem is solved for good. Even when the majority are clwan there will still be the bad pennies that will get found out. Personally, I reckon the time will soon be due for the 2 year "amnesty" ban to end, and anyone caught should be banned from competitive events for life.

Moose11

sing_for_absolution wrote:

The timing of it bugs me a little. Apart from that, good on him. Some French forumers I know have always stated that The Chicken had a reputation during his MTB days.

Couldn't agree more. If he tests positive then hang him but until then...

Saying that if there is some kind of evidence behind it all that we've yet to fully hear maybe the conspiracy will be that the Tour organisors will wait until he loses the yellow in the time trial before kicking him out! A little far fetched maybe but disqualifying the yellow jersey is the worst for their publicity.

psychiatricblues

"Saying that if there is some kind of evidence behind it all that we've yet to fully hear maybe the conspiracy will be that the Tour organisors will wait until he loses the yellow in the time trial before kicking him out! A little far fetched maybe but disqualifying the yellow jersey is the worst for their publicity."

That'll be the Tour organisers that told Barne Riis he is not wlecome at this year's Tour, for admitting doping prior to the Festina Tour, but allows Eric Zabel to compete in this year's Tour, after admitting similar crimes in the same ear.

Given that it was Barne Riis that helped ensure the 1998 Tour got to Paris, I'd say that you can't predict who the A.S.O. will forgive and who'll they'll condemn. The A.S.O., I believe, does not have the interests of cycling at it's heart, only the interests of A.S.O. and it's races.

dave_1

The issue of not declaring his whereabouts is the main one. The story out of the USA from this mountain biker seems dodgy. I think ASO can't allow their race to be dictated by someone looking to sell a story, which looks suspiciously like what's happened. However, the allegations from the MTB guy seem very accurate, detailed. I'd side with madiot.. and as said previously, don't let pro cyclists make you believe that huge fluctuations in form in a season are down to how elite they are and how hard it is to maintain peak form at their elite levels- these pros are human and the fluctuations in form must be human-i.e. lack of training leading to drops in form, poorer race performance, but we know pros don't ever take whole months off a bike unless injured, and the drops in form of some grand tour riders could ony be the result of something like a whole month off a bike, or something else being withdrawn! Valverde at least races well to Septemer, rides well in March and April, even Vino does...I find this form more believable..riders who ride good most of the season but nothing massively above their natural level

squired

It is interesting that this guy spoke to Velonews about the story many years ago, but didn't want the names published. Given that fact, I think the probability is that he is reliable is high. Had he only come forward with the story now that would be different.

Moose11

He comes forward now because Rasmussen is in yellow and theres money to be made and scandle to be had. Whatever Rasmussen did (or didnt do with regards to missing tests) why didn't we hear about it at the time?

sing_for_absolution

Moose11 wrote:

He comes forward now because Rasmussen is in yellow and theres money to be made and scandle to be had. Whatever Rasmussen did (or didnt do with regards to missing tests) why didn't we hear about it at the time?

That's like asking why we didn't hear about what Telekom were up to in the late 90s!

jimmythecuckoo

Moose11 wrote:

He comes forward now because Rasmussen is in yellow and theres money to be made and scandle to be had. Whatever Rasmussen did (or didnt do with regards to missing tests) why didn't we hear about it at the time?

I think this guy is after some money. He should have come out years ago with categoric proof if he had it, but chooses to wait until Ras is in the limelight.

Interesting...

top_bhoy

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

Moose11 wrote:

He comes forward now because Rasmussen is in yellow and theres money to be made and scandle to be had. Whatever Rasmussen did (or didnt do with regards to missing tests) why didn't we hear about it at the time?

I think this guy is after some money. He should have come out years ago with categoric proof if he had it, but chooses to wait until Ras is in the limelight.

Interesting...

I don't buy the money and greed thing. The time to have done it was when Ras was in the limelight as the KoM and standing on the podium in Paris - it would have been an unlikely prediction that in future years Ras would ever be in yellow!!!

iainf72

Top_Bhoy wrote:

I don't buy the money and greed thing. The time to have done it was when Ras was in the limelight as the KoM and standing on the podium in Paris - it would have been an unlikely prediction that in future years Ras would ever be in yellow!!!

If you read the article, he said it was the chicken saying "you can trust me" that got to him.

I dunno - He knew, told Velonews abouit it years ago but kept the identity secret. So he was part of the whole system .

Eurostar

If true it was 5 years ago, nobody can prove anything, the UCI won't take any action and it will all be forgotten. Ras seems to be clean now, so this accusation won't affect this career.

But what do I know?

mangaman

Ras seems to be clean now

I'd like to think so

Still - having just watched him give Dave Millar a pasting in the TT today I was a little surprised by his sudden upsurge in form :evil:

Eurostar

Did Millar take a pasting because he was knackered from yesterday though?

And maybe this TT course suited Ras because of the uphill bits?

In other words, does Ras' time relative to lots of others seem iffy? Or relative just to Millar?

Valverde had a crap day - maybe Millar did too?

Anonymous

Eurostar wrote:

Did Millar take a pasting because he was knackered from yesterday though?

And maybe this TT course suited Ras because of the uphill bits?

In other words, does Ras' time relative to lots of others seem iffy? Or relative just to Millar?

Valverde had a crap day - maybe Millar did too?

Think Chris Boardman thought it was a bit iffy ,but he's wise enough to not come out with it straight.

aba2005

Anton de Lacey wrote:

Eurostar wrote:

Did Millar take a pasting because he was knackered from yesterday though?

And maybe this TT course suited Ras because of the uphill bits?

In other words, does Ras' time relative to lots of others seem iffy? Or relative just to Millar?

Valverde had a crap day - maybe Millar did too?

Think Chris Boardman thought it was a bit iffy ,but he's wise enough to not come out with it straight.

Didn't Millar start and finish in the worst of the rain? Also he had tried to attack yesterday for the second day in a row. Also Rasmussen had the best conditions of all the contenders and went all out. He might pay for that ride tomorrow.

Dorian Gray

Eurostar wrote:

In other words, does Ras' time relative to lots of others seem iffy? Or relative just to Millar?

In the Stage 13 spoiler thread I posted a few pics: looks to me like Rasmussen's position has improved since last year. In addition, his bad reputation for testing comes partly from his difficulties in staying upright in the 2005 Tour. This time he managed that. And there was a bit of climbing on this route, and as aba2005 mentioned, Millar had the worst weather while Rasmussen was almost riding on dry roads for a while. I didn't expect Rasmussen to do so well (I thought he'd be almost five minutes down) but he does have the yellow jersey to spur him on too. Perhaps his ride was not so unbelievable.

Did you see him on the podium? He was still blowing and looked more knackered than he did after his stage win in the Alps. I suspect he put in fully as much effort as Vino.

bigdawg

the thing that really bugs me about this story is how the blood was supposedly transported, in a shoe box..??!! How long would blood last kept like this? Anyone who reinjected blood kept in a shoebox for a couple of weeks must be insane, I thought blood had to be frozen, or kept cool, if anyone knows different please let us know.

Wonder if there are any pics of hte box of blood?

Does anyone know if theres a test for this kind of doping??

Oh well another tour ruined :x

SteveR_100Milers

11th today.... and he said:

"For the first time in my life I really give it everything in the time trial."

Hmmm he's not the smartest spoke in the wheel is he, and lets face it on average the more stupid you are ergo the more stupid things you will do. I gave everything I ever had in a TT on July 17th 1991, and have been close to that ever since.

I don't know who is less believable, the chicken who just found out how to fly or Vino. How the hell can stitches heal that fast???!!

I love bike racing and loved watching the tour, but I am as p*ssd off about the latest situation as Millar is. How on earth can you miss an out of season tst if A) you're a major contender, and half awake. I cna underdstand Prudhomme's position, but that's aimed at the Danish CF who appear to be an even bigger bunch of muppets. I'm going to post in innocent until proven guilty: IMO the slightest whiff of smoke and your suspended until you can prove there is no fire. Rant over.

Bronzie

It wasn't blood per se - it was "Hemopure" - made from cow's blood.

It has a 36-month shelf-life at room temperature apparently:
http://www.biopure.com/shared/home.cfm?CDID=2&CPgID=17

Using this product would presumably affect a riders hematocrit value, but presuming they kept below the magic 50%, they'd still be clear to ride.

However, other blood tests are now available that can detect autologous blood transfusions (what Hamilton was caught for, the 1st athlete to ever be caught in this manner in any sport). I don't know if this would show up as well or not, but I guess it would, and is not likely to be in current use in the peloton (this story is 5 years old remember).

What grates with me about this story (apart from timing) is that Rasmussen must've been a sh1t judge of character - did he really think this guy would not open the "box of shoes" to take a peek before going through customs - I know I would. Don't know if I buy this side of the story. If it was his most trustworthy best mate caught carrying gear then ok, but not some random bloke he knew from the MTB circuit.

SteveR_100Milers

My feelings too Bronzie..how can someone with such a high aspiration do something as stupid as this? Now I'm hardly at the top of my professional tree but since i fly a lot, and need to, I wouldn't either ask anyone nor agree to carry anything for someone onto a plane unless i Knew what it was and it was OK. There's a curl of smoke here, and I disgree with the immediate assumption that he is clean!

Dorian Gray

The story certainly seems odd from many directions. Bigdawg's question, "well, where are the photos of the box then?" strikes me as useful. Considering the MTB guy was so concerned and methodical about the situation that he asked a doc over and then poured the stuff down the sink, it seems inconceivable that he didn't take photos.

BTW, Rasmussen always seemed pretty smart to me. His recent doping denials remind me of Armstrong's: they're genuinely believable and therefore don't suggest anything one way or the other. In contrast, the moment Landis or Roberto Heras opened their mouths it was painfully obviously they were lying about being clean. Sink-wits also: "What? Me? Impossible. Anyway, I have an operation now so I can't think of these things." :roll:

SteveR_100Milers

Dorian Gray wrote:

The story certainly seems odd from many directions. Bigdawg's question, "well, where are the photos of the box then?" strikes me as useful. Considering the MTB guy was so concerned and methodical about the situation that he asked a doc over and then poured the stuff down the sink, it seems inconceivable that he didn't take photos.

BTW, Rasmussen always seemed pretty smart to me. His recent doping denials remind me of Armstrong's: they're genuinely believable and therefore don't suggest anything one way or the other. In contrast, the moment Landis or Roberto Heras opened their mouths it was painfully obviously they were lying about being clean. Sink-wits also: "What? Me? Impossible. Anyway, I have an operation now so I can't think of these things." :roll:

which is OK if you really believe beyond reasonable doubt that he was clean too.

andyp

David Millar makes some very salient points in his Bicycling Tour dairy;

http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/a ... -1,00.html

LangerDan

andyp wrote:

David Millar makes some very salient points in his Bicycling Tour dairy;

http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/a ... -1,00.html

Would that be the same David Millar that burned off some of the top climbers on todays stage?

"There's none so pure
As the reformed hoor"

iainf72

andyp wrote:

David Millar makes some very salient points in his Bicycling Tour dairy;

http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/a ... -1,00.html

Wait a minute here, Millar isn't suggesting that the UCI are a bunch of half witted clowns, is he?

Did we all read that Prudhomme gave McQuaid the hairdryer treatment down the phone over Rasmussen?