Self sealing inner tubes...

ChrisLS

...anyone used them, and do they work :?:

Thanks
Chris

ddraver

most of the time......I had one on the front that lasted for years and i eventually took it off myself....but the rear one i bought one t same day hit a nail or something and punctured about 2km down the road

They are also significantly heavier and in a place where you don't want extra weight

I think good tyres and care of aforementioned tyres and keep them pumped up well is the best option...or go tubeless....

ChrisLS

...thanks for that DDraver...so what are the benefits of a tubeless tyre? Surely if you puncture that's it... no inner tube to replace...

ddraver

Well i have nt got the balls to do it myself but no

if you rip t tyre obviously nothing will fix it but if you puncture it and cannot seal it it you can put a tube in and carry on

there s sealant in the tyre to seal small thorn punctures etc...and pinch flats are much less rare as theres no tube to get pinched?!

ChrisLS

...mmm, think I will carry on with good tyre maintenance... :idea:

Anonymous

I''m curious too. What exactly is the advantage of tubeless?
If you get a puncture in an inner tube, you can fix it.
Can't really do that with a tubeless tyre.

ddraver

I'm leaving this open to someone with tubeless tyres.....

there have been several Mag articles on it recently though.......

Splasher

I'm a recent convert to tubeless.

Basically, the advantages, as far as punctures go are:

1. No pinch punctures because no tubes
2. Fewer sidewall cuts because UST tyres have reinforced sidewalls
3. Thorn puncures reduced see http://www.notubes.com/moviedemo.php

Anonymous

Splasher wrote:

I'm a recent convert to tubeless.

Basically, the advantages, as far as punctures go are:

1. No pinch punctures because no tubes
2. Fewer sidewall cuts because UST tyres have reinforced sidewalls
3. Thorn puncures reduced see http://www.notubes.com/moviedemo.php

That makes no sense to me whatsoever though.

1. fair enough, but I used to run IRC Kujos, where any snakebite puncture that would have occured would also have had to destroy the tyre.

2. I've never seen sidewalls as tough as IRC Jujos

3. That's the sealant that's stopping that, not the fact that it's tubeless.

Splasher

1. Any tyre can snakebite a tube. Also, tubeless tyres can be run at lower pressure without an increase in snakebite risk.

2. I don't know anything about IRC Kujos or Jujos, but presumably they're relatively heavy if they have reinforced sidewalls. Tubeless tyres equally are a bit heavier because they have re-inforced sidewalls but the 150g saving of not having a tube offsets this.

3. Yes that's the sealant, but it's cheap and easy to deploy and replace in tubeless tyres.

ddraver

its significantly lighter for the same protection

and much more effective at all three

Anonymous

Sorry, both tyres were meant to be IRC Kujo. No such thing as an IRC Jujo. Or Kujo either, anymore

graciejiujitsu

the fact that they are TUBELESS is what helps when punctured by thorns,with tubes you get rapid air loss due to the fact that the tube is like a "balloon"inside the tyre,but with tubless the thorn acts as a "plug"so you may not even be aware of a puncture.

Scubar

graciejiujitsu wrote:

the fact that they are TUBELESS is what helps when punctured by thorns,with tubes you get rapid air loss due to the fact that the tube is like a "balloon"inside the tyre,but with tubless the thorn acts as a "plug"so you may not even be aware of a puncture.

That means absolutely nothing, Just last weekend when out on a ride i got a thorn in my tyre and it had no effect at all. It was only when i got home and cleaned my bike i pulled it out and my inner tube deflated.

Anonymous

Scubar wrote:

graciejiujitsu wrote:

the fact that they are TUBELESS is what helps when punctured by thorns,with tubes you get rapid air loss due to the fact that the tube is like a "balloon"inside the tyre,but with tubless the thorn acts as a "plug"so you may not even be aware of a puncture.

That means absolutely nothing, Just last weekend when out on a ride i got a thorn in my tyre and it had no effect at all. It was only when i got home and cleaned my bike i pulled it out and my inner tube deflated.

Likewise, I had a latex (bright neon pink!) innertube in my front tyre. It's been there for ages.
I was totally unaware that I had any punctures until the tyre was taken off for a wheel rebuild.
PFFFFFT. intantly flat.
Turns out, that there were little thorns in the tyre, and they'd been there for some time. possibly years. as soon as they were removed the air escaped through the holes they left.
also, I don't even buy the fact that tubes are like baloons. My innertubes fit almost exactly inside the tyres. In fact, the latest one to be fitted looks as though it's so big, it shouldn't really fit.

graciejiujitsu

dont shoot the messenger,i got that from page 120 of june's mbr.
i use tubes and had punctures that have gone flat in seconds,and also rode 14 miles with a metal tack in place before it deflated.

Anonymous

Hmm, I've been researching this. The advatage that tubeless systems have is that you pretty much HAVE to use sealant. If you don't and you get a puncture, you've got to use a tube.

omegas

If you are having problems with punctures try using tyre liners, they do work.
They will stop thorn punctures as they are a hard plastic about 1mm thick.

I have gone from a thorn puncture about once a week to none since I fitted them.

http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=12565

Dr M

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Hmm, I've been researching this. The advatage that tubeless systems have is that you pretty much HAVE to use sealant. If you don't and you get a puncture, you've got to use a tube.

no you dont. I've run tubelss for past 6 months, including a trip to alps. No punctures so far. I only stuck sealant in a couple of weeks ago when i was in alps just to try it out.

If you dont have sealant you can either use superglue on the cut / hole, from outside of tyre, or use a tubelss repair kit. Both methods work. I've not had punctures on the trail, but when i was binning my worn out tyres after the alps i experimented a bit. I tested the sealand by sticking a penknife blde in the tyre - sealed straight away (bontrager super juice). weight penalty for sealant is about 40-50 g per tyre.

I then cleaned the sealant out and tried repairing cuts with superglue, and a tubeless kit. Both worked fine as well, although not sure how long these repairs last. (although a mate of mine superglued his tyre a few weeks ago, and its still going strong!)

I was sceptical about tubeless at first, but am completely converted now. I saw lots of tubes being patched in the alps, and my mates had quite a few pinch punctures, but i suffered no problems at all, and was running similar pressures to them.

Only downside of tubless is if you take the tyre of the rim and need to reseat it (without an nnertube in) then you wont manage with a mini pump. You need a track pump, or a CO2 inflator to sit the tyre bead.

toasty

I really wanted to like tubeless, it sounded like a nice weight saving. Sadly I've heard as many bad stories as good, it's more the "burp" losing all your pressure that scares me than punctures.

The solution seems to be carrying innertubes in your backpack ready for when it goes down. Top weight saving there. True, it's not on the wheels but unless you're rolling along at a fair whack it won't make much difference where it is. Coupled with the fact you have to go through hell every time you want to change tyre.

Still, I'm sure I'll give in and try it in a few weeks. Always the way

ddraver

well don't you take inner tubes already?!

Dr M

Toasty wrote:

Coupled with the fact you have to go through hell every time you want to change tyre.

Still, I'm sure I'll give in and try it in a few weeks. Always the way

Changing tyres is easy!!! No different to tubed, if your at home use a track pump, or foot pump to seat the bead, and if you're away get a co2 inflator, or just nip to garage and use the airline there. I took mine off in the alps and reseated with Co2 no problem. One cartridge will easily seat 2 - 4 tyres if you turn it off after the bead seats and pump with a normal pump. Otherwise you can still get 2 tyres to a rideable pressure with one cartridge.

I had no choice as my bike (epic marathon) came with a tubeless set up, but i'm happy with it. No punctures yet, and on tubed tyres i've always had at least one every couple of months!

toasty

ddraver wrote:

well don't you take inner tubes already?!

Yes but I dont take either:

A) Heavy tubeless tire filled with slime.
A stans style kit involving an extra wide rim tape and even more slime.

Another thing, do the tires take high pressure ok? All the pimping seems to mention really low pressures, I sometimes run my slimmer tires at much higher pressures. Just curious about this one, not arguing.

Anonymous

Surely for the absolute peace of mind though, self-sealing inertubes are the best option?
I mean, you get the self sealing, no puncture goodness, plus if anything does go wrong, you only need a standard puncture repair kit.
there's no chance of sudden pressure loss.
You don't need a different pump to fit your tyre.

makes sense to me. Sure it weighs a bit more than tubeless, but I'm not much of a weight fetishist anyway.

toasty

It's not the same sort of goodness, a thorn can literally rip a hole in an inner tube, stab a balloon and see what happens. Now go outside and stab a car tyre in the road.

The tires can hold their shape together while the sealant gets in there. Not to mention combining both systems you end up with the combined weight of both systems.

Dear god, I've swapped sides easily.

Anonymous

Toasty wrote:

It's not the same sort of goodness, a thorn can literally rip a hole in an inner tube, stab a balloon and see what happens. Now go outside and stab a car tyre in the road.

The tires can hold their shape together while the sealant gets in there. Not to mention combining both systems you end up with the combined weight of both systems.

Dear god, I've swapped sides easily.

Bullcrap. I've never had an innertube burst lile a balloon. I've punched holes through an old innertube using a spoke to fully deflate it, it certainly didn't explode (dissapointing really) it just went PSSSSSHHHHHH and deflated.
What the hell do you use as tubes? water-bombs?

toasty

It doesn't have to explode, it can tear, anything bigger than about a millimeter and sealant will be doomed on a tube. When it went over the spoke it won't have been compressed under your weight and spinning around at 25mph.

Anonymous

Toasty wrote:

When it went over the spoke it won't have been compressed under your weight and spinning around at 25mph.

Are you saying I'm fat?
Seriously though, in around 17 years of MTBing, i've only ever seen holes, not tears in butyl inner tubes.

I have seen the odd tyre destroyed though, and in which case, sure, the innertube wouldn't have worked whether or not it had sealant in it.
BUT, the tyre wouldn't have either.

toasty

Fair enough, I just think it'll be a lot less effective at self sealing than in a tyre which will make every effort to maintain it's normal shape.

As you've probably noticed in your 17 years, that inner tube sealant has been around a similar amount of time and has never really taken off, it'll reappear every 5 years rebranded, people will whine they still get punctures and it'll go out of fashion again. Things like snakebikes will probably still be doomed, as will any sort of valve related puncture.

I'm sure it'll help, but in a pretty specific case, the rest of the time you're racing around with an innertube full of snot.

Anonymous

To be honest, I personally see tubeless as being a bit of a fad as well, although it's been on somewhat of a slow boil.
the first time i saw innertube sealant it was deemed only suitable for kids bikes, or similar.
Nobody really thought it was for mountain bikes.

ddraver

theres no other system using pneumatic tyres that uses inner tubes...how s that?!

and i ve seen many a tube with tears in them, one of which was "self sealing"

and you can't pinch flat a tubeless tyre nearly so easy as a tubed one (my main puncture source tbh) whears you can do sealed tube or not sealed tube

Most people already carry spare tubes rather than the faff of a puncture repair kit (if you still use repair kits, your likely to not get tubeless at all) thus if it all goes wrong, you don't do anything different