Condor Bikes - what's your secret...

Harry Bozack

...to getting served there?

Went in today to see about a new bike for my wife (and to check out some nice frames for me, heheh). We perused the bikes downstairs for 10-15mins, then looked around for someone to help. We were alone *tumbleweed*. Popped upstairs to see if someone could answer our sizing question and perhaps make a sale The 2 chaps behind the desk were on the phone or chatting to some couriers.

So, we went back downstairs to double-check the specs of the bike we were interested in. Another 10mins later, I nipped upstairs to ask for help. No-one available.

This is the THIRD time this has happened to me at Condor. I've been there on my lunchbreak a few times and I've never been served! Not once! Should I have wrenched a bike from it's stand, carried it upstairs and plonked it on the counter? Is that how you get served in Condor? Or maybe I have to wear a Rapha cap to be considered?

Anyway, I've given up with them. Shame as they seem to have some nice kit and I am in the market for a fixie and a road bike. But what's the point of having all that shiny stuff if people can't actually buy it? Am I doing something wrong?

farrell

say 'Excuse me! I'm interested in buying one of your lovely bikes....do you want some money?'

I've always been served there and have had no problems getting attention from the staff.

sqwerl_mk2

it's a bit of a dichotomy. You want a shop that has knowlegable staff that will spend the time talking to you, helping you etc. etc. but at the same time need them to be free in the first place. But they won't be if they're talking to people...
I'd say if the staff are busy it's good sign. It's true they do spend a lot of time chatting to couriers but the couriers do put a lot of business their way. I've had "issues" there in the past but I still rate the shop and most of the staff, so tend to go there because I know they'll have what I need.
Compare with Evans in Wandsworth. On Sat. I went for 4 things. They had one of the four (a BB) which turned out to be the wrong part because the guy couldn't be arsed to check the part number. I asked him to check but was told he wasn't able to. The guy that served me when I went back in later managed so this was clearly down to total lack of knowledge/willingness with the earlier guy.
Anyway, my point is that it's quite hard these days to find shops staffed by people who know what they're talking about and also stocked with items that may actually be useful. Condor is one of these shops.

andyp

The secret to getting served in Condor is to visit outside of lunchtime hours, i.e. not between 12-2.

Works for me everytime.

cannonfodder

I don't get it - could you not have just waited for a couple of minutes in the queue at the desk?

rustychisel

I sympathise. The problem is there's no real alternative to Condor in the city of London, is there?

Some years ago I visited a local bike shop with $5000 (metaphorically) burning a hole in my pocket... spent 20 minutes looking at high end road bikes (Look, Cervelo, Colnago), couldn't get arrested, managed eventually to attract someone's attention, so they sent the specialist MTB toad over to talk to me. What was the point of that? He knew nothing, couldn't answer any questions...

That shop does not get my business.

Slimtim

Harry, just take your money elsewhere. If they want to sell couriers tyres and tubes rather than sell you a whole bike then let them.

I've never wanted to buy anything significant from Condor (who needs to buy an £800 fixie when you can build your own in an afternoon for £200?) and I can pick up the bits and pieces I do buy myself.

I had a classic Condor experience when I asked them if they had a wheel truing stand. The two guys behind the counter said 'no mate, we don't stock that kind of thing' which was surprising as an hour before when I'd phoned to check I was told that they had them.

I made this point and was then told that they had sold out. I was disappointed, took a couple of steps back from the counter and put my hand on - you guessed it - a pile of wheel trung stands in their boxes.

Are Evans and Condor part of the same group?

The comment about not visiting at lunchtime is fair but unrealistic if you work.

There are lots of other top end shops within the M25 and if you are seriously looking to commit some money to buy quality then just going to one shop is probably a bad move anyway.

Recommendations from personal and mates' experiences are Cycles Dauphin, Sigma Sport and Mosquito.

Keith Rapley

Maybe you could Ask Bern

Slimtim

I suspect that the new forum would charge for the massive free coverage that Condor got through that record-breaking C+ thread.

I am just joshing of course.

beckenham

I had the same problem. Went to the shop during lunch time and stood there looking as the shop assistant consistantly walked past me without saying a word. A simple "I'll be with you shortly" would have been enough.

I was looking to spend around £1500 on my first road bike and wanted some advice. In the end I walked out and went to my LBS who were very helpful and knowledgable and suggested a Specialized Roubaix. Following this I got some advice from this forum as well as Cycling Plus and ended up buying a Focus Cayo Expert (sorry LBS but I will buy from shoes etc from you, I promise!). Mind you I found Wiggle not too brilliant either, they didn't reply to emails for several days and some never did get a reply.

I went out on the bike for the first time at the weekend and it's great. Worth all the hassle.

All I need now is some time, a bit of sunshine and a long quiet road.

markhr

given that they're the best bike shop in London and they're permamnently understaffed (quality help is VERY hard to find - just ask Evansh!iteCycles) a little more patience and LETTING THEM KNOW YOU ARE THERE might help

http://www.condorcycles.com/



standing around downstairs like a muppet when the queue is 5 deep at the counter upstairs...welll DUH!

I have no connection to, nor interest in, said business

OnTow

Oh dear!
Condor are brilliant. I'm a bit of Condor bore - They sold me a fantastic winter bike - I then went back 6 months later for a sportive bike.
Both fantastic. Fantastic staff too - who ride.

Victims of their own success - Best time I have found is early evening - Typically 1600-1730HRS, or 1030-1130HRS.

If your'e after a bike, 'phone ahead and get the name of someone specific to see. Arrange an approx. time, and ask for them when you go in.
Ask for a test ride, and they should be able to get something in your approx. size and config. available in advance.

It's a shame the expertise of Bern has been lost on this new forum. I also notice a lack of the BikePlus chap.

I was in there being sized-up for my summer bike, when Ronan excused himself, and rang upstairs to say to another staff member that there were anxious customers patiently waiting downstairs for the service of a particular assistant - who was unfortunately serving upstairs at the time. Unfortunate and frustrating for the customers concerned, but I'd rather wait for an expert than be served by a disinterested shop assistant in a chain store...... I was in a certain large chain recently, and the two assistants were too engrossed talking about their music interests to serve bike goods.

I've been in there when they get their lunch break - at 4pm. Bern is on the web in his own time in the evening, and the staff do get concerned about the number of potential customers who are queuing.

Edit: Sigma - very good too, though I have queued in there for 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (no longer open on Sundays) - equally busy - smaller shop. If you're after trying out a road bike, they have IMHO a smaller range - I didn't see anything that looked test-ridable in there.

Dauphin - Good - knowledgable staff - Lots of time - Not as large an in-store range as Condor for bikes and components, though a good clothing selection, and again probably less test-ridable bikes. Good mechanics area and wheel build facilities in-store.

Courage Monsieur

I've found Condor OK and some of the bikes do look class, but I really don't understand why people get so hung up on them when there are some great bike shops in London to try.

One example that rarely gets a mention: Edwardes in Camberwell. They have some serious machines there, and service is extremely prompt.

sqwerl_mk2

Courage Monsieur wrote:

I've found Condor OK and some of the bikes do look class, but I really don't understand why people get so hung up on them when there are some great bike shops in London to try.
.

I guess maybe because they make their own bikes and there aren't many places that still do that these days. They aren't just a shop. They're a manufacturer as well.

Gussio

Sigma Sport in Kingston are always worth a look / drool

sonicred007

I echo the advice above. Phone ahead - they will encourage you to come at a quieter time to ensure quality time.

Also, if you're spending £1000+ it's not obvious when you're milling around looking at bikes. Can you imagine how many people come in for a drool, in their lunchitme and occasionally buy accessories.

I realised the time precious set up there - and it is a little intimidating as a newbie when everyone knows everyone except you - when you first walk in. Went back at around 11am, not so social club then, went to the counter and asked about buying a bike, purpose etc

Not surprisingly, was led to the bikes and we discussed options, use and my budget etc

Head buzzing with excitement I went away to calm down, phoned a week later to arrange a test ride. A different person served me, but the service was nothing but top notch.

A week later I was being sized up and the rest is cycling history

More recently, I went in to buy a helmet at Condor. I was browsing as was my want, I was asked what I was looking for, explained and was fetched a few options - minutes later I was the proud owner of top rate helmet.

I think because of the kudos attached to an independent shop its a little like going in guitar shops in Denmark st - the shop assistants there have to deal with many idiots and wastes of time that they become a little battle weary and cynical, but to be near what they love they continue in the shop.

And they manufacturer their own - what do you want? Blood!

northpole

Condor is definitely the best bike shop I've come across and I can only echo what some others have said here - if you don't know exactly what you want, your patience will be rewarded. I haven't once encountered a member of staff who wasn't on top of their game. The manager in CycleSurgery near Liverpool Street station (Marcus?) is great too but once you step into the chain stores I have found extremely variable quality of service. Condor manages to remove that risk by employing enthusiasts who also learn about the gear they are selling. And yes, you can wait some time for service, but it's worth it.

The Raucous AUK

Slimtim wrote:

Recommendations from personal and mates' experiences are Cycles Dauphin, Sigma Sport and Mosquito.

I visited Mosquito bikes recently to look at their SOMA frames and found the staff very helpful, even opening boxes to show me the colour and finish.

Bern.

Sorry it has taken a while to respond to this, but I have been engrossed in projects recently and it seems that someone else has my forum name on this site already. From now on I am Bern.(with the full stop).

Harry, it is very distressing to read your story about visiting Condor. It is certainly not the kind of thing that should happen in any store. I quite often get frustrated in large multiples when the service is poor and quite often try to use these experiences to change the way we work ourselves.

We are very picky about the staff we employ as we have come unstuck in the past when they are not up to the task. Our main staff base has remained unchanged for a number of years, but we also have some younger, less experienced members who are still learning the 'Condor way'.

Like a couple of people have suggested it does seem we are victims of our own success and when we are busy as we are most days customers can outnumber staff by quite a bit. Our failing in this instance was not to acknowledge you and explain that we would make a staff member available as soon as possible. All staff members are encouraged to acknowledge customers who are waiting for help and to get help to them as quickly as possible as in the description of Ronan above, though there can still be a wait.

Beckenham, it is not good that this has also happened to you and Slimtim, your story really upsets me that this can happen within our store. For anyone who knows the owner of Condor this is not the kind of service he expects from any of his staff.

I will be forwarding parts of this forum post to our Shop Manager and Sales Manager for discussion and for staff training as I feel this could be refreshed in this area.

The only advice I can give to anyone is to call ahead or visit during the quieter periods as a couple of you have suggested.

We have toyed with the idea of starting an appointment system, but this can be a bit formal and we will still have customers coming in without making appointments and we would certainly not turn anyone away.

Harry, I hope you have a better experience should you step inside Condor again.

Bern

Ste_S

sqwerl_mk2 wrote:

Courage Monsieur wrote:

I've found Condor OK and some of the bikes do look class, but I really don't understand why people get so hung up on them when there are some great bike shops in London to try.
.

I guess maybe because they make their own bikes and there aren't many places that still do that these days. They aren't just a shop. They're a manufacturer as well.

They don't manufacture bikes, someone else does that for them in the same way that Dolan, Ribble, Planet X etc do.

Witcomb's and (i think) Brompton are the only two manufacturers left in London

sonicred007

Ste_S wrote:

sqwerl_mk2 wrote:

Courage Monsieur wrote:

I've found Condor OK and some of the bikes do look class, but I really don't understand why people get so hung up on them when there are some great bike shops in London to try.
.

I guess maybe because they make their own bikes and there aren't many places that still do that these days. They aren't just a shop. They're a manufacturer as well.

They don't manufacture bikes, someone else does that for them in the same way that Dolan, Ribble, Planet X etc do.

Witcomb's and (i think) Brompton are the only two manufacturers left in London

Ok - but they get bikes made to order and in the end you are emotionally buying a Condor bike

The manufacturing might not be inhouse, but its part of their process - just outsourced like Levi, Nike et al, nevermind other bike brands. I've no stats, but I imagine the sales of Condor bikes to other brands they sell is very much the greater.

Ste_S

sonicred007 wrote:

Ste_S wrote:

sqwerl_mk2 wrote:

Courage Monsieur wrote:

I've found Condor OK and some of the bikes do look class, but I really don't understand why people get so hung up on them when there are some great bike shops in London to try.
.

I guess maybe because they make their own bikes and there aren't many places that still do that these days. They aren't just a shop. They're a manufacturer as well.

They don't manufacture bikes, someone else does that for them in the same way that Dolan, Ribble, Planet X etc do.

Witcomb's and (i think) Brompton are the only two manufacturers left in London

Ok - but they get bikes made to order and in the end you are emotionally buying a Condor bike

The manufacturing might not be inhouse, but its part of their process - just outsourced like Levi, Nike et al, nevermind other bike brands. I've no stats, but I imagine the sales of Condor bikes to other brands they sell is very much the greater.

Ahh, is that how the mark up on the Nero Corsa frame set is justified

giant_man

Bern. wrote:

Sorry it has taken a while to respond to this, but I have been engrossed in projects recently and it seems that someone else has my forum name on this site already. From now on I am Bern.(with the full stop).

Harry, it is very distressing to read your story about visiting Condor. It is certainly not the kind of thing that should happen in any store. I quite often get frustrated in large multiples when the service is poor and quite often try to use these experiences to change the way we work ourselves.

We are very picky about the staff we employ as we have come unstuck in the past when they are not up to the task. Our main staff base has remained unchanged for a number of years, but we also have some younger, less experienced members who are still learning the 'Condor way'.

Like a couple of people have suggested it does seem we are victims of our own success and when we are busy as we are most days customers can outnumber staff by quite a bit. Our failing in this instance was not to acknowledge you and explain that we would make a staff member available as soon as possible. All staff members are encouraged to acknowledge customers who are waiting for help and to get help to them as quickly as possible as in the description of Ronan above, though there can still be a wait.

Beckenham, it is not good that this has also happened to you and Slimtim, your story really upsets me that this can happen within our store. For anyone who knows the owner of Condor this is not the kind of service he expects from any of his staff.

I will be forwarding parts of this forum post to our Shop Manager and Sales Manager for discussion and for staff training as I feel this could be refreshed in this area.

The only advice I can give to anyone is to call ahead or visit during the quieter periods as a couple of you have suggested.

We have toyed with the idea of starting an appointment system, but this can be a bit formal and we will still have customers coming in without making appointments and we would certainly not turn anyone away.

Harry, I hope you have a better experience should you step inside Condor again.

Bern

Yaaay it's Bern and this is Ask Bern re-born. Good day to you sir, long may this thread run and run!!

Bern.

Let's clear some things up.

We still manufacture in the U.K, but on a very small scale. We would prefer to be 100% U.K, but that is not possible as we could not find the right people to work for us manufacturing modern materials such as carbon, Ste_S, imagine the cost of a Nero Corsa manufactured here.

We take great pride in attention to detail with our bikes. This is not sales pitch, just letting everyone know that it is not just about picking something from a catalogue and stamping a name on it.

The process is long starting with sample tubes and frames, sometimes up to 40 in a season. Then individual tubes are selected from the supplier tailored to how we require the frame to perform. Never assume that a frame badge means the same on one frame as it does on another as there are lots of tube shapes and thicknesses within a tube range, then there are the options of heat treatment.

So after we have selected the correct tubes for the job and tested the various make ups we can decide on a model to go into production. We choose reliable builders in Italy who we have been working with now for many years. We are very fussy about how the frames are welded and give strict guidelines to our builders. Although we no longer do this building ourselves there is a lot of framebuilding experience among our staff, I myself started my education on leaving school at 17, some many years ago.

A lot of thought also goes into the finish and decal design and we are proud of our designer who has won awards for his work.

Only once we are happy with the result will we accept delivery and start assembly. It is a long process and hard work. For example, I started working on our Pista model back in '99 and it is still under constant development as I want it to be the best we can offer for the money.

For the Nero Corsa, we did help with its initial developement with dedacciai. At first it was too stiff and the rear end had to be modified to stop this after the first tests. Of course, it is a model they offer to others all over the world, but we were proud to be part of it's incarnation. To have complete exclusivity on a design means paying for the moulds up front at a cost of approx £30,000 which would push the frame price too high for our liking.

So I hope you can see that it is not just about slapping a name on and thinking of a mark-up. We study prices a lot as we do not want to be over-priced, but I also don't like fitting poor components just to make a bike look better value. Everything is assembled by our own mechanics in Central London.

So in conclusion Sonicred007, there is indeed a lot of emotion and passion behind what we do, more because of what we believe in and have a passion for, not purely for profit. We simply love what we do. I will stop boring everyone now.

p.s. giantman, it's nice to be back

passout

No excuse for understaffing (long term) & poor service....bad business practice I'd say.

Ste_S

Bern. wrote:

Let's clear some things up.

We still manufacture in the U.K, but on a very small scale. We would prefer to be 100% U.K, but that is not possible as we could not find the right people to work for us manufacturing modern materials such as carbon, Ste_S, imagine the cost of a Nero Corsa manufactured here.

Why are Carbon and Aluminum framesets not made in this country ? Italy seems to have found a cost effective way of building frames there, I'd imagine labour/material costs are not too different to what they are here ? Which Condor framests are built in the UK ?

We take great pride in attention to detail with our bikes. This is not sales pitch, just letting everyone know that it is not just about picking something from a catalogue and stamping a name on it.

The process is long starting with sample tubes and frames, sometimes up to 40 in a season. Then individual tubes are selected from the supplier tailored to how we require the frame to perform. Never assume that a frame badge means the same on one frame as it does on another as there are lots of tube shapes and thicknesses within a tube range, then there are the options of heat treatment.

So after we have selected the correct tubes for the job and tested the various make ups we can decide on a model to go into production. We choose reliable builders in Italy who we have been working with now for many years. We are very fussy about how the frames are welded and give strict guidelines to our builders. Although we no longer do this building ourselves there is a lot of framebuilding experience among our staff, I myself started my education on leaving school at 17, some many years ago.

A lot of thought also goes into the finish and decal design and we are proud of our designer who has won awards for his work.

Only once we are happy with the result will we accept delivery and start assembly. It is a long process and hard work. For example, I started working on our Pista model back in '99 and it is still under constant development as I want it to be the best we can offer for the money.

For the Nero Corsa, we did help with its initial developement with dedacciai. At first it was too stiff and the rear end had to be modified to stop this after the first tests. Of course, it is a model they offer to others all over the world, but we were proud to be part of it's incarnation. To have complete exclusivity on a design means paying for the moulds up front at a cost of approx £30,000 which would push the frame price too high for our liking.

So I hope you can see that it is not just about slapping a name on and thinking of a mark-up. We study prices a lot as we do not want to be over-priced, but I also don't like fitting poor components just to make a bike look better value. Everything is assembled by our own mechanics in Central London.

So in conclusion Sonicred007, there is indeed a lot of emotion and passion behind what we do, more because of what we believe in and have a passion for, not purely for profit. We simply love what we do. I will stop boring everyone now.

p.s. giantman, it's nice to be back

Why do Condor charge a lot more for the Nero Corsa framest than say Ribble do ? I'd imagine if you've had a hand in devolping it, you'd get it at a cheaper unit price than Ribble ?

timbooth

I'm afraid my experience of Condor has been the same as the original poster - I work in Chancery Lane, so it is Cycle Surgery, Evans or Condor if I need something.

I'm afraid that every time I have been in (lunch-hour or not) I've been roundly ignored. 6 months ago I actually said to the guy behind the counter that I wanted some wheels for around £500 once he was free and he said he'd speak to me as soon as he'd finished.

15 minutes later - nothing.

I appreciate that they are victims of their success, but as a result, Condor seem to be resting on their laurels - poor service and over-priced own-brand bikes (they've become a mainstream fashion-brand - great for their pockets, though!).

I regretfully use the 'chain' shops now - at least I can get in and out with what I need in 10 minutes.

Bern.

Ste_S,

We tried for many years to get alloy frames made in the U.K, but couldn't find anyone who could build for a decent price or get near the quality we wanted so we went abroad. The labour costs in Italy are lower than here in the U.K. Back when alloy became the new material the Italian factories that survived switched almost overnight.

We still make custom steel lugged and Paris frames in the U.K. Going back 7 years or so we used to do around 3-400 per year like this, but since we introduced more economical versions built in Italy it has gone down to less than 50. It is a difficult balance as the aim is always to offer value for money to the customer which was no longer viable with U.K made frames.

When you look at most Italian brands you can see who puts the biggest margin on and that is wholesalers which is why we tend to sell far more of our own.

Unfortunately for the Nero Corsa we do not get any preferential prices. As complete bikes are more popular than frames for us we tend to discount them this way. A bike built using the Nero Corsa frame has the frame/fork costed at around £700 when bought this way. I have seen the other thread about this and will respond to it. We set our prices based on what we need to survive as a business which is significantly lower than companies based outside of London so this will also be a factor.

It is good to get feedback and discuss as in the next few weeks I will be finalising our prices for 2008 and all the comments will taken into account.

Tim Booth,
Your experience within the store disturbs me greatly. Things cannot be improved without this kind of information so it is greatly appreciated. I think there will be some changes afoot. I cannot guarantee that there will not be times when the shop is so busy some customers may not get served as fast as we or they would like.

We get a lot of good feedback from customers all year round, but it is the bad feedback that really upsets us as our aim is to give everyone the same level of service.

A lot of people have suggested that we open more stores, but that creates it's own problems as experienced staff get thinly spread and we end up with inexperienced staff which gets us nowhere.

timbooth

Thanks for your response, Bern. You make a valid point about experienced staff and that is a definite plus for Condor - I've said many times before that buying from Evans is like buying wine from a supermarket.

If you know what you are doing, they are handy and can offer good deals, but if you need advice, some students and out-of-work actors who nothing of what they sell can't help you very much..

Bern.

Tim, I am about to make steps to stop this sort of thing happening, hopefully.

I know what it is like when I go into large stores and get no attention when I want to buy something, it can be very frustrating. I think there will be some heads banged together and more training for all staff.

I don't think any bike shop owner really wants to give bad service, after all if we don't do our best, you the customer will not come back and where would we be then?

Clever Pun

Never had a problem myself, you can see everyone is busy so you queue at the checkout and they work their way through... they get to you and you explain what you want...

there's nothing else to it.