New Steel Frame

busterman

I’ve decided I want to buy a new bike. I don’t particularly need one, but I’ve decided to treat myself to something special for absolute best, i.e. not the Bryan Chapman on a wet weekend.

My current steed is a steel Bob Jackson, which I enjoy riding a great deal. I had though about getting something more sporty in carbon, but have decided to stick to steel for a few reasons:

1. I really like the retro look of steel bikes. The 953 steel can be left unpainted, for a super-chic bare steel look.
2. I tend to ride only audaxes, and hilly audaxes at that. I like to ride fast, but comfort is also a key factor.
3. I’m 6’2” and have long legs even for a chap of my size. A custom steel frame is going to be a lot easier on my back, legs and arms.
4. The new Reynolds 953 steel results in a frame that’s only 700g heavier than a carbon model. That’s nothing compared to the crap I carry round on a ride anyway.

So, with this in mind, I’ve been looking for framemakers who can work with 953 steel. So far I’ve found Bob Jackson, Mercian, Brian Rourke and Dae Yates. I really like my Bob Jackson but I’ve heard of other people who have been less than happy with what they got. I’m not sure I’m ready to trust them with £1300 for a frame made out of such a tricky material to work with. I’m gravitating towards Mercian, but only on account of their reputation.

Could I ask what experiences any of you have of these companies, or indeed 953 steel? Any feedback gratefully received.

fossyant

I think 953 might be my next bike some time - all those frame builders are good.

My custom Frank Herety SLX is still a fantastic road bike, even though it's 16 years old with full Dura-Ace 7400 - all still working like new !

pliptrot

I'd be disappointed if a 953 frame weighed 700gm more than a carbon frame. According to Dave Yates (google that name for his excellent web site) an 853 frame can be made which is close to 1600gm - and I understand that in the hands of someone like him (i.e. he knows what he is doing) a 953 frame will weigh in at not much more than a kilo.

Steel is unfashionable at the moment, a bit like hand-built wheels, but still offers amazing value. 853 will (I have 2 frames made from this) last forever and gives an excellent ride, if being heavier than carbon. the difference there would be 1 -1.5 lbs, or less than 1% of the combined weight of you and your bike. No doubt those who extended their mortgages to get the latest carbon "bling" (a term I used to think perjorative) will have something to say about that, so; bring it on. Steel is the best material for a frame. At least one the owner has to pay for.

Monty Dog

Hmm - a 1 kilo steel frame?? Flexy enough to roll up and pack-away methinks? 1.2 kg is more realistic - unless of course you don't want it to last. As for 1kg being 1% of the bike weight - hey a 100kg bike - wouldn't fancy it on the hills though.

Eurostar

I've just ordered a Dave Yates frame, not because I've compared him with his competitors but because I will build the frame myself on his course. He has quite a few points in his favour: lots of experience but still does everything himself; has done lots of audaxing and written sensible and entertaining stuff about it; never heard any criticism of him; his site says he has been working with Reynolds: "Dave has been carrying out development work for Reynolds on their new 953 tubing (photos below.) Reynolds had carried out previous testing on TIG joints and material 0.7mm thick. Dave's joints were the first fillet brazed ones to be tested, and were on a thinner section of tube. The test standard is 100,000 cycles. The joint pictured below, brazed by Dave, was taken off test at 280,000 cycles with no sign of crack, well above test standard."

I spoke to him the other day - a really nice bloke, good sense of humour, who knows everything but really listens to you to work out exactly what you want. That gave me a lot of confidence in the whole process - I hate it when an expert pretends to listen to you and just gives you his usual formula. I want just the right compromise between speed, comfort and load carrying capability. I also discovered he built my current bike, a Condor 753 racer from the early eighties. A lot of people are surprised it's still going because they think 753 frames have a short life. Mine seems fine even though I've put a horrendous dent in the top tube. So perhaps this is evidence it was built well? Who knows.

I would love a 953 and would trust Dave 100% to work with it, but he doesn't let students on his course build with it!

acorn_user

953 is not your only stainless option. Columbus has Xcr and Simoncini is building with a different Italian stainless tubeset from GILCO and Trafiltubi.

pliptrot

Wouldn't it be nice if people actually read a post before providing a critical, opinionated answer?

There was an argument, Monty Dog, much the same as yours about steel about carbon fibre about decade ago - it wouldn't last and (if any lighter than steel) would be too flexible. That company you have criticised in the past (the American builder who pioneered high quality carbon fibre frames) broke the mould, so to speak, and now everyone's offering a light carbon frame. Things do move on, even if you're not involved.

To suggest that any steel has longevity problems is to flirt with ridicule. I'm waiting until someone in this industry who has any real knowledge reviews the options for light frames. In my book that's someone who is a professionally qualified engineer, and who doesn't rely on opinions. Someone like, say, Chris Juden. Oh, I forgot, he doesn't rate very highly in your book, does he? That's a real shame because you could learn a lot from him. Like, say, considering another point of view and perhaps reading English.

McBain_v1

Busterman, I applaud your wisdom in going for a 953 Reynolds frame - it's a beautiful material. Personally, I was really impressed when I went to see Brian Rourke - he really seemed to know his onions and the bike that I saw looked fabulous. The next time I can scrape £3,000 together I'm going to get one, custom paint job and some serious bling on the bike :twisted:

Eurostar

To return to the original post, it seems none of us can answer the question - we can't compare the framebuilders and none of us has a 953! If I was in your shoes I would ask around on some other forums and phone all the framebuilders and ask them some searching questions. They're all so experienced I can't believe any of them would do a bad job.

edgar

acorn_user wrote:

953 is not your only stainless option. Columbus has Xcr and Simoncini is building with a different Italian stainless tubeset from GILCO and Trafiltubi.[/quot

Orlando Simoncini put some new pics on his blog.
http://simoncinitelaibiciclette.blogspot.com/

He says that it is necessary to paint the brazed sections of the frame. The yellow frame is a T40 with 15CDV6 Dual Tubes from Trafiltubi. I ordered a T40 Frame with Hinoxtubes and I can post pics in some weeks.

Regards

Edgar

cpeachey

:?: I've been looking at framebuilders for a new TANDEM frame. (853 or similar)
Roberts in Croydon had plenty of good postings on the forum as did Lee Cooper in Coventry (formally LA cycles). I think the secret is to go to one who you feel comfortable with. Any UK builder offering 953 is likely to be a craftsman. Some builders get a reputation for a certain style of machine. ie Mercians do Campag, Thorns do expedition touring etc. Roberts seems to be Audax. I think it is better to make a personal visit when the shop is quiet an make your judjement.
I still have not decided after nearly a year thinking about it!
Chris