Mammoths
formerlyknownasbonj
Posts: 483
just seen this on the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6284214.stm
apparently they're going to try and knock one up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6284214.stm
apparently they're going to try and knock one up.
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Comments
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Didn't they learn anything from Jurassic Park?!0
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Not sure a mammoth counts as a dinosaur - but might there might be some good eating on one?
Mammoth steaks - yum!Chocolate makes your clothes shrink0 -
SJ wrote:Peyote wrote:Didn't they learn anything from Jurassic Park?!
Perhaps they thought that dinosaurs eating people would be good for global warming?
Good point, and if they eat enough of them then it probably will be a good thing for global warming.
Though I thought dinosaurs tended to prefer warmer climates? So reversing global warming would be a bit self defeating for them. Good for the Mammoths though...0 -
Peyote wrote:Didn't they learn anything from Jurassic Park?!
mammoths won't be dangerous.
They're only elephants with tusks. An elephant could kill a human if it wanted to without tusks, but it doesn't want to so it doesn't. Same with a mammoth.
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Eh? Never seen a bull elephant in musk - about as mad and bad an animal you can get - they squish people quite often. Elephants have tusks, but mammoths have hairy coats - with global warming, can't really see a need for extra insulation.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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And Bonj adds woolly mammoths to his list of expert subjects. __________________________________________________________
<font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>0 -
Do I detect the possibility of a new sig line here ... If I had a baby... :roll:Colin N.
Lincolnshire is mostly flat... but the wind is mostly in your face!0 -
as opposed to what sort of elephant exactly?formerlyknownasbonj wrote:Peyote wrote:Didn't they learn anything from Jurassic Park?!
mammoths won't be dangerous.They're only elephants with tusks. An elephant could kill a human if it wanted to without tusks, but it doesn't want to so it doesn't. Same with a mammoth.
you can tell arch has left the building riding on my bicycle, i saw a motorcrash…0 -
formerlyknownasbonj wrote:Peyote wrote:Didn't they learn anything from Jurassic Park?!
mammoths won't be dangerous. They're only elephants with tusks. An elephant could kill a human if it wanted to without tusks, but it doesn't want to so it doesn't. Same with a mammoth.
Is that the only difference Bonjy? Except that it isn't really a difference?__________________________________________________________
<font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>0 -
alecstilleyedye wrote:
as opposed to what sort of elephant exactly?formerlyknownasbonj wrote:Peyote wrote:Didn't they learn anything from Jurassic Park?!
mammoths won't be dangerous.They're only elephants with tusks. An elephant could kill a human if it wanted to without tusks, but it doesn't want to so it doesn't. Same with a mammoth.
you can tell arch has left the building
What do you mean what SORT. There's only one sort. Well, two I suppose, you can get african and indian varieties apparenlty and they have different shaped ears but they are not different sorts of elephant. A mammoth would be the perfect example of another addition to the elephant family, it is an elephant but a different sort of elephant.. I think it'd be more than worthwhile if the science boffins were to crack one out.0 -
Well, and brown shaggy fur. I suppose some elephants do have tusks but not as big as a mammoth's ones.Mister Paul wrote:formerlyknownasbonj wrote:
Is that the only difference Bonjy? Except that it isn't really a difference?0 -
formerlyknownasbonj wrote:alecstilleyedye wrote:
as opposed to what sort of elephant exactly?formerlyknownasbonj wrote:Peyote wrote:Didn't they learn anything from Jurassic Park?!
mammoths won't be dangerous.They're only elephants with tusks. An elephant could kill a human if it wanted to without tusks, but it doesn't want to so it doesn't. Same with a mammoth.
you can tell arch has left the building
What do you mean what SORT. There's only one sort. Well, two I suppose, you can get african and indian varieties apparenlty and they have different shaped ears but they are not different sorts of elephant. A mammoth would be the perfect example of another addition to the elephant family, it is an elephant but a different sort of elephant.. I think it'd be more than worthwhile if the science boffins were to crack one out.
your definition of a mammoth by definition makes all elephants mammoths (if mammoth = an elephant with tusks) :roll:
and how are flatulent scientists going make it worthwhile? riding on my bicycle, i saw a motorcrash…0 -
alecstilleyedye wrote:your definition of a mammoth by definition makes all elephants mammoths (if mammoth = an elephant with tusks) :roll:
and how are flatulent scientists going make it worthwhile?
oh for god's sake stop being so pedantic flower.0 -
sorry i'll stick to supposition, guesswork and vague definitions in the future shall i?
i'm off to feed my tigers. there're bit like cats, only with claws.riding on my bicycle, i saw a motorcrash…0 -
alecstilleyedye wrote:sorry i'll stick to supposition, guesswork and vague definitions in the future shall i?
i'm off to feed my tigers. there're bit like cats, only with claws.
No, try and stick to the conversation which is about mammoths, not whether I may or may not have made a mistake in stating the correct legal definition of the precise difference between a mammoth and an elephant which is irrelevant.
The point that was being made was that they are all of the same FAMILY of animals, in the same way that lions, tigers and cats are all of the same family. That was it, there was no more to it than that.
Perhaps it might be more interesting to discuss the impact on the world / nature if / when mammoths get recreated?0 -
My wife is Helena Christensen.
But without the tusks.
But neither of them have tusks.
So they're the same thing really.
They're from the same family of animals.
Legally.
Nothing more than that.__________________________________________________________
<font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>0 -
Your wife is Helena Christensen ?
Oh, mine must have been lying to me for years then.
Ah well, all's not lost, at least I now know that a mammoth is an elephant with tusks and there are two sorts of elephants which are only one sort.
Which is clear.
As mud.0 -
Look. Just understand it and understand it once and for all.
There is only one sort of elephant. Some people think african and indian are different sorts because they have different shaped ears, but they are NOT different sorts.
a mammoth, however, is a different sort of elephant - so if they managed to build one there then WOULD be two different sorts of elephant.
Some elephants have tusks, but mammoths have bigger ones.
If you don't understand that you must be fairly thick or deliberately trying not to understand.0 -
formerlyknownasbonj wrote:Look. Just understand it and understand it once and for all.
There is only one sort of elephant. Some people think african and indian are different sorts because they have different shaped ears, but they are NOT different sorts.
a mammoth, however, is a different sort of elephant - so if they managed to build one there then WOULD be two different sorts of elephant.
Some elephants have tusks, but mammoths have bigger ones.
If you don't understand that you must be fairly thick or deliberately trying not to understand.
If Helena Christensen was hairy, would that make her different to my wife then?
Anyway Bonj, mammoths never existed until they were discovered under the ice. Did they?__________________________________________________________
<font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>0 -
It's okay everyone, I've just looked on Wikipedia (I swear it's becoming more and more like the Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephants
Apparently there are three different species of elephant, the African Bush and African Forest varieties previously being considered the same, and the Asian (Indian) Elephant. Mammoths seem to be another species, but the same Family.
Now, a more pertinent question is, can we shear wooly mammoths? I reckon they'd make a more efficient use of resources than sheep, llama and all the other fibre providing animals!0 -
No we couldn't.
Becuase then a mammoth would be the same as an elephant with tusks. And that would upset Bonj. Legally.__________________________________________________________
<font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>0 -
Peyote wrote:Now, a more pertinent question is, can we shear wooly mammoths? I reckon they'd make a more efficient use of resources than sheep, llama and all the other fibre providing animals!
Nah - it's about surface area for wool vs. food requirement : a herd of sheep have a greater wool-producing surface area, weight for weight than a mammoth would have.
A mammoth would eat as much as, say, 100 sheep but only produce 40x the wool.
However, they could perhaps be farmed in Siberia or Greenland or somewhere which is currently under-utilised by intensive factory farming methods.
Would the farmers be called mammothboys (cowboys) or mammothherds (shepherds) ?
- mammothboys sounds like it might already be a registered website address but I daren't look...0 -
Mister Paul wrote:formerlyknownasbonj wrote:Look. Just understand it and understand it once and for all.
There is only one sort of elephant. Some people think african and indian are different sorts because they have different shaped ears, but they are NOT different sorts.
a mammoth, however, is a different sort of elephant - so if they managed to build one there then WOULD be two different sorts of elephant.
Some elephants have tusks, but mammoths have bigger ones.
If you don't understand that you must be fairly thick or deliberately trying not to understand.
If Helena Christensen was hairy, would that make her different to my wife then?
Anyway Bonj, mammoths never existed until they were discovered under the ice. Did they?
er... consider these facts:
1) when they were discovered under the ice, they were DEAD - which means they can be radioactively carbon-dated to prove how long ago they died.
2) they (a lot of them at least) were discovered completey encased in the ice, not just in a cave - which means the ice must have formed AFTER the mammoths were there, i.e. they must have been in some water which then froze.
Contrast this to the fish that you constantly take the piss out of my belief that they are newly created /evolved, which were discovered ALIVE, and for which there is absolutely NO proof that they existed before they were discovered.0 -
It sounds a good idea, and a mammoth-fur jumper might be quite a valuable, saleable commodity - however I don't think it would become mainstream because:andy_wrx wrote:Peyote wrote:Now, a more pertinent question is, can we shear wooly mammoths? I reckon they'd make a more efficient use of resources than sheep, llama and all the other fibre providing animals!
Nah - it's about surface area for wool vs. food requirement : a herd of sheep have a greater wool-producing surface area, weight for weight than a mammoth would have.
A mammoth would eat as much as, say, 100 sheep but only produce 40x the wool.
However, they could perhaps be farmed in Siberia or Greenland or somewhere which is currently under-utilised by intensive factory farming methods.
Would the farmers be called mammothboys (cowboys) or mammothherds (shepherds) ?
- mammothboys sounds like it might already be a registered website address but I daren't look...
1) mammoths would be unlikely to be able to be herded by your bog-standard german shepherd. This, I believe, is your main sticking point. It would probably be scared off because mammoths are many times bigger than it - that's if the mammoths didn't beat it up or trample on it first. A mechanical herding device could be invented, but it would be expensive - a tractor wouldn't be able to be used because it isn't manouevrable enough, they would run rings round it and the noise of its engine would probably make them stampede. You could train lions to do it, but they might revolt during training and try to herd the trainers instead, besides there isn't that many of them - although they could be bred specially. At the moment, this is looking like the best option - although a mammoth is still a good 2 or 3 times bigger than even a lion so the lions might still get scared, especially because they wouldn't have ever seen a mammoth before.
2) Space. Mammoths are huge, you would need a big, enclosed, field. Sheep can be kept anywhere, including just in generic countryside, and places where humans will also be as they aren't dangerous - however you wouldn't want mammoths getting on footpaths as they might be a danger to humans. Also sheep are ok with rocky / mountainous terrain, mammoths would not be used to this and may struggle. Fences would also be an issue, they would probably be able to batter down your standard farmer's fence quite easily, so a better method of enclosing them would have to be devised.
3) Shearing them - I wouldn't be the first to volunteer They would have to be held still by a pretty big and strong device while they were sheared. This device would have to be pretty strong but be able to hold the mammoth still without hurting it. 0 -
Were in water that froze ?
- perhaps they didn't get on the ark, were drowned, then the water froze ?
Very few 'intact' mammoths have been found encased in ice - they would have died somewhere cold enough for them not to rot, then been progressively covered in snow, which then layered-up and became ice.
Most mammoth remains are just bones/skeletons.
Some were killed by early human hunters - mammoth bones have been found with butchery marks from flint knives.0 -
andy_wrx wrote:Were in water that froze ?
- perhaps they didn't get on the ark, were drowned, then the water froze ?
Very few 'intact' mammoths have been found encased in ice - they would have died somewhere cold enough for them not to rot, then been progressively covered in snow, which then layered-up and became ice.
Most mammoth remains are just bones/skeletons.
Some were killed by early human hunters - mammoth bones have been found with butchery marks from flint knives.
yeah, well - or that. water, snow - the fact is they were there before it was.0 -
formerlyknownasbonj wrote:1) mammoths would be unlikely to be able to be herded by your bog-standard german shepherd, etc, etc
I do like the idea of a mammoth 'beating up' a GSD.
But you need to understand that a GSD is a 'shepherd' dog in that it was bred to chase-off wolves, not round-up sheep.
You'd need something like a collie for that, which might be out of it's depth with a mammoth, I agree.
Re lions : I suspect training lions to round up the mammoths, not to eat them, might be a problem.
Also if you think that "a mammoth is still a good 2 or 3 times bigger than even a lion" you're either seriously underestimating the size of a mammoth or think a lion is the size of a car.
Re tractors : have you not seen that safari park program from Longleat, with that nice Ben Fogle and Kate Whatsit ?They herd the rhinos and hippos about with a conventional tractor, so I don't see why a bigger tractor wouldn't work (think of something of the scale of the things they use in open-cast mining...)formerlyknownasbonj wrote:2) Space. Mammoths are huge, you would need a big, enclosed, field.
No you wouldn't - I suggested Siberia or Greenland because that's the sort of environment that woolly mammoths (there were several different 'sorts', just as there are three 'sorts' of elephant alive today) were thought to live in, during the last ice age.
But they have miles of open nowhere, few people, no fences, so are ideal.
They'd roam loose, like sheep do on the moors, or in the outback of Australia or New Zealand. You'd simply round them up at shearing time.formerlyknownasbonj wrote:3) Shearing them - I wouldn't be the first to volunteer
I bet some Kiwis would do it. 0 -
andy_wrx wrote:
I bet some Kiwis would do it.formerlyknownasbonj wrote:
3) Shearing them - I wouldn't be the first to volunteer
They'd have to use Flymos!0 -
this thread is getting a bit wooly (sorry) :oops: riding on my bicycle, i saw a motorcrash…0
