What drugs ?

modra

Where is the best place to get recommendations on what drugs to take ? I am just a low grade rider so do not race in any events with drug testing so could try anything I could get my hands on.

I want to get a general performance boost - like most riders I want to increase my power to weight ratio. In the sixties and seventies riders used to take speed is this still a drug riders would recommend ?

John Stevenson

Modra

I definitely wouldn't recommend YOU take speed.

Moose11

modra wrote:

Where is the best place to get recommendations on what drugs to take ? I am just a low grade rider so do not race in any events with drug testing so could try anything I could get my hands on.

I want to get a general performance boost - like most riders I want to increase my power to weight ratio. In the sixties and seventies riders used to take speed is this still a drug riders would recommend ?

haha, sorry I'm not sure if you're actually being serious or not but that last paragraph made me laugh so bloody hard. You owe me for one new keyboard after that... Coffee everywhere.

Seriously though, dont take Speed, and secondly dont take any drug... If your a low grade rider not racing just enjoy the ride without f**king up your body at the same time. If you do however go ahead, let us know if it really improved your performance that much!

naz-t

was that a real question??? troll i think :roll:

ThePiglit

BAcon sandwiches work for me.

AndyGates

I get great looks racking my bike in transition with a bacon butty in one hand.

Mind you, I'm usually last. Could be related...

formerlyknownasbonj

neck a couple o' beans. take a camelbak though.

modra

This was a serious question I thought that being the pharmacy forum it would be treated seriously !!

I have limited funds so I want to find out the best bang for my buck so to speak.

Steroids seem to be the easiest drugs to get hold of ( you can get them down the gym) but would I be better off trying to get EPO from somewhere and if so what is a good price ?

I am on good terms with a vet so can get most veterinarian drugs is there any thing anyone recommends ?

naz-t

what exactly are you trying to achieve? are you looking to increase endurance or are you looking for more power long term , or short term sprint power?

are you looking to reduce drasticlly body fat and therefore reserves?

you need also to decide if you are THAT serious about your hobby? is it a sport now
are you going to be competing and at what level

come back with some serious answers

modra

what exactly are you trying to achieve? are you looking to increase endurance or are you looking for more power long term , or short term sprint power?

That is really the question - I suppose my current weakness is climbing so increasing my power to weight ratio would be what I am after.

are you looking to reduce drastically body fat and therefore reserves?

I don't know about reserves but yes to reduce body fat would be good.

you need also to decide if you are THAT serious about your hobby? is it a sport now
are you going to be competing and at what level

Like I said earlier I want to compete at club level (so no drug controls) and when you say serious - you have to be serious just to get out to train, so yes I am serious about wanting to improve my performance.[/quote]

Noodley

well if you are serious, stop asking moronic questions and get out and train more you pillock!

speshcp

Alternatively, try three inches of freshly-peeled ginger root where the sun doesn't shine.

Works for race-horses, or so I'm told... :twisted:

Hope this helps.

ThePiglit

Few things manage to be both hilarious and depressing.
This thread manages it.
PS Steroids will just make you big and ill.
If you use a gym read "Beyond Brawn" by Mcrobert. What it says about drugs in the iron game and training in general can be applied to any sport where capacity is what it's all about.

naz-t

hi modra, youve answered all my questions bar one, the biggie, when i say serious i mean are you willing to damage your body possibly irreversably for your sport. ask yourself if you really want to win that badly ? if you do then thats a big commitment and you need do change your lifestyle not just take a few drugs and hope for the best. going down that route is a total lifestlye change and you must be prepared physically,mentally and financially for it. you cant just go buy some wonder drugs off the shelf and expect the results you are thinking about

modra

I don't really understand all this drugs being bad for you bit that people are coming out with.

Most races I go to the majority of riders are taking out the inhalers and taking caffeine in some form (which used to be on the banned list) and various supplements.

In the pro ranks are you really saying that all those riders have done them selves serious harm ? are you sure ?

Just because a drug is on the banned list does not mean it is going to do you harm, it is on the banned list because it increases performance.

Also to those of you saying train more - tell that to the pro's "stop taking drugs boys - train more" - that is a joke right.

I came to this forum because I thought it was for *serious* cyclists who want to look at all aspects to improve performance.

Are you really saying if you heard of a supplement not on the banned list which would improve performance you would not take it ? what is the difference between that and taking drugs on the banned list ?

Noodley

you are a cock

John Stevenson

Folks, I know Modra in real life - Hi, Joey! - and the original question is a wind-up. It's best ignored.

Now, a serious discussion about whether or not the war on drugs in sport is worthwhile or not would be interesting, I think.

Given Werner Reiterer's assertion in 'Positive' that just about every strength athlete is using steroids with, it seems, very few serious adverse effects; given that the haematocrit limit was a de facto enforcement of medical supervision of EPO use; given that the war on drugs in society as a whole has been such a dismal failure, would sport be better off just letting grown-ups and their doctors decide what to put in their bodies?

After all, it's proven impossible to stop people taking drugs for fun - does anyone really expect to stop athletes taking them for money and glory?

naz-t

i think you need to research drugs a little more my friend as your obvious lack of knowledge will prove dangerous if you start messing with coctails of drugs when you dont know how each one works and what effects they are having on areas of your body.

i can advise you to go out and take this and that but you need to know how its affecting you individually as we are all different , for example a very comman side effect could be nose bleeds where the drugs are thinning your skin on the inside of the nose now this is from one of the most common drugs and weaker in terms of performance enhancment, if you up to the "real stuff" you ARE not maybe gonna be damaging areas of your body that could be irriversable, im not talking caffiene her or even EPO (which does effect you on long term use) and not that long term either!! im talking possible juandice and enlargment of the heart (as its a muscle)for one example - ie your taking drugs to grow your muscles youll grow them ALL! kidney damage though you wont know how much, you need to find a clinic where you can go and have regular blood tests and people who KNOW what to look for in your blood readings ie increased blood pressure, raised cholestrol etc etc etc because this WILL occur, your also running the risk of gynocamstia (scuse the spelling) so you have to take other drugs to prevent this etc etc etc as i said you WILL damage your body, who knows how bad is anyones guess its a total lifestyle change we are not talking asprin ok

look at probably one of the most succesful body builders arnorld who has funnily enough had a triple heart bypass!! we all know drug abuse goes on in all sports and if the difference between winning and loosing is that small then maybe we have a case for drug use however for club level racing and general enhancment no way in my book trust me ive collected my knowlege personally over 15 years or so and im trying to help you make an educated choice not blindly pill popping and hoping for the magic result

your supplement bill will be suprising as will you new food bill, your start to resemble a bloody chicken cause youve eaten so much, kiss goodbye to egg yokes as the cholestrol is too high in them for your blood levels, youll need to add probably a 1000 calories of good food to your daily diet , eating will take place every 4 hours by the clock, your toilet trips a day will probably tripple the list goes on mate are you sure you need to go this far?? leave it to the pros with their friendly doctors and personall trainers etc.

JMO for what its worth

modra

yep folks John is right the original post was a little bit of a troll.

We are not going to stop riders taking drugs and if we are concerned about health issues then make the drugs available under medical supervision - the war on drugs social or performance enhancing is not going to work.

I do take some supplements like vit B and in endurance events I will take stimulants like caffeine.

I see adverts now from private clinics offering testosterone for middle aged men to improve "performance" so these drugs are not inherently bad - most side effects and bad stories , some repeated on this topic come from people taking totally over the top doses.

naz-t

sorry modra i totally dissagree, what might be over the top doses?? please enlighten me on your knowledge of doses ?

believe the side effects for they are real, i and people i have known for years will vouch for that, steriods of any kind should never be taken without medical supervision.

for instance the health service will begrudgingly perscribe an injection for hayfever sufferers that is actaully a cortisone - ie the stuff they inject into sportsmens knees etc to allow them to play through injuruy. the side effects of this minor steriod are frightning and should you have a road accident for example you could loose more blood and have real trouble getting your blood to clot , also this drug lowers drastically your immune system, other things that ok, may not be the end of the world but annoying all the same - actual example - your ear is pierced, this could become infected and you will have real trouble killing the infection whilst taking steriods, not life threatening but annoying all the same but you get the picture, these are some of the stupid things youd never consider you ahve to think about when engaging in any performance enhancing drugs even the weaker ones!

i am glad to hear that you are not thinking about starting down that road, you can incidentally make your own EPO, you need some ephedra (found in some cough medicines if you cant find it in tablet form) some pro-plus tablets from your local shop and some junior asprin, im not going to post the dosages im just letting you know how easy it is when you have a little knowledge.

peace

Simon L2

I think the question, however tounge in cheek, is a decent one. There's an anti-drugs hysteria being generated by the press, and we overlook the fact that a lot of cyclists took drugs (and presumably some still do) and look remarkably good on it.

People take drugs (I use the term in its widest sense) for a variety of reasons, but the big reason is that it makes them feel different and better. A small percentage of drug users come to regret it, but, given that half a million people in this country take Ecstasy every week, and there's no evidence (apart from the content of the MTB pages of this forum) that today's youth are any less mentally or physically competent than their parents. People of my generation smoked dope and snorted coke without apparent mishap. So why the panic?

What we lack is information. World War 2 pilots flew on amphetamines. If it was a valuable aid to performance then, why is it not now? If Modra really wanted to do a 200 Audax and get the thrill that comes with cycling on amphetamines, where would he go to get advice on how much to take?

Don't give me the medical supervision thing, because the NHS dispenses anti-depressants and statins by the bucketload without a second thought.

So - if you don't know the answer to the question and want to confine yourself to being wound up, fair enough. But, if you do know the answer to the question, or consider that there are guidelines that a more serious Modra might want to follow, then let us know.

naz-t

good point but i dont think any of us can still be that naive?

the guidelines are simple, the more you take the more you risk ,fact!
although dont go with the mind set up the dose and hope for the most as this is not nessecarly true
with that in mind the goal would be the most gain for the least amount of risk. this is an impossible one to give advice on because we are all different and each drug can work differently for each of us, dependent on lots and lots of things, some examples

1.diet
2.traning methods
3. body type - genetics i.e
Ectomorphs - very little fat, narrow chest and shoulders, long, thin muscles. Ectomorphs are very hard gainers.
Endomorphs- "Soft Looking", usually not ripped at all. Round face, short neck, wide hips, heavy fat storage.
Mesomorphs-Large chest, long torso, solid muscle structure, and great strength. Mesomorphs are lucky, because they easily convert food into muscle.

and finally how much of each particular drug you have taken before as muscle receptors are easily burnt out so...... not as easy as you might think eh? this is where medical supervision when using is imperative, also helpful is a couple of years experience of using and being around these drugs.#

the other thing one has to decide is exactly what you are looking to acheive ie - increased power for fast climbs or sprints or maybe increased stamina and only lean muscle growth the drugs are specific sometimes to the goal you are trying to achieve

either way and which ever drugs you take you are robbing peter to pay paul - especially true of amphetamines and the like

modra

So what is the war on drugs in sport supposed to achieve ?

It can not be for health reasons as we would agree that taking drugs under medical supervision is safer than on a do it your self basis.

And we would agree that bike riders will take drugs to improve performance - controls or no controls.

Also we only catch the unlucky rider, or ones whose medical advise was poor so they got caught.

Why drug test ? lets have all the risks known and in the open so riders can make informed decisions

naz-t

agreed, well probably be forced to follow the route of body building where there are two seperate competitions one for the "non" drug tested and one for the "naturals"

obviousely there is a world of difference between the two factions and the natural competitors are more what youd exp-ect when you look at the 70's body builders who made it into film, your charles atlas types hardly like the freakes we are used to seeing in movies these days, people such as arnold/lou feringo etc etc

bill64

This is a very interesting article from someone who tested several drugs to see what effect they would have on his performance.

http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html

Obviously he couldn't try everything but steroids & HGH are both covered.

naz-t

that was very refreshing, every now and again (and they are few and far between) an honest and un biased story emerges from someone whos actually experienced some thing and not just read about it or made preconceived judgments based on bad press.

overall i thought that was a very honest article, very nearly all of what the writer said was true and correct, however more research has found that when taking HGH for maximum results compared to costs etc dosage really should be taking steriods of high anabolic properties at the same time, body builders have also found that mixing the steriods whith hgh and insulin is the most effective way to build muscle whilst reducing fat.

also doses of deca (NANDRALONE) effects are nominal below 350mg per week as most deca is sold in 2ml vials of 200mg per vial minimum dosage usually would be 400mg.

probably the best solution to remove drugs from competetive sport would be to test every single winner at the top level of their sport, the core reason for anyone taking drugs must be to win, take away that option and i beleive no one would seriousely bother to take steriods or other drugs in order to finish 2nd or 3rd.

thanks for the article by the way

Eat My Dust

If you're not being drug tested, I'd recommend crack coccaine, you'll fly along. The only problem is that you'll need to stop every 20 mins or say to get the crack pipe out!! Good luck!!

climbinglegs

The old war on drugs in sport is essential otherwise if we leave it a supposed level playing field of sports people and thier doctors where are we going to end up? Genetic engineering??

Athletes injecting themselves with specific DNA to alter their mucsle fibre make up depending on how many fast/slow twitch you want.

Science will always push the boundaries in society and this will be relected in Sport as a whole! So there has to be a point at which you say stop, even though that will mean there will always be people found to be cheating until you can get a fool proof doping control system.

The problem with that is, you can only test for what you know exists. BALCO! anyone for THG!!

naz-t

also drug testing would have to happen during the "off season" which for lots of athletes is actually the "on" season lol :twisted:

rovers69

I have some sympathy with Modra and his attempts to obtain info' about suitable drugs for club riders.

During the 1980's I was a member of the Cyclists Touring Club, which a joined to try and lose weight, age 15 I was 16 stone and 5ft 6''. i had only ridden my bike from our house to my Nans (about 12 miles away) a couple of times, before I had to take part in a summer tour to West Wales (110 miles, 3 days, 2 youth hostels). In my innocence I managed to get my hands on some acid, thinking this would take my mind off the pain of the hills, and I dosed myself up the night before we set off.

I arrived at Crewe Station on the morning of the departure, on my brothers chopper and with 2 carrier bags full of food, one on each handle bar. I had managed to forget my Claud Butler, and the fact that the departure point was Manchester Piccadilly. Sadly i missed the tour completely and swore never to dabble with illegal drugs again in an attempt to enhance my performance.

The following year I tried to increase my haemocrit levels using raw liver which i had managed to obtain from a local market (£4 for 20 kilos). i have a fear of needles so more sophisticated methods of increasing levels were not open to me. Yet I was aware that on this tour (4days, 3 youth hostels and 121 miles) I was expected to get up the Winnats Pass (Peak District) with a fully packed saddle bag and only a 28 -32 bottom gear. i did not want to push in front of the others.
i attempted to increase my 'haemo' levels by eating raw liver at every meal time for 3 weeks before the tour (no other foodstuffs consumed), and by rubbing into my knees.
Again this didn't work and i was asked to leave the tour on the first day because of the vile smell eminating from my tights (rotten liver and flatulence).

i am very much of the opinion that if I had been properly guided by someone like Dr Ferrari, or had access to a forum like this then I would have enjoyed my time with the CTC considerably more than i did, and been able to enhance my cycling prowess and consequent enjoyment of the countryside to a substantial degree.

The point i wish to make is that drugs and doping are not always used to satisfy greed and a desire for financial reward. I remained a member of the CTC for 15 years before getting fit enought o participate fully in a summer tour, I have no doubt at all that if i had been properly medicated I would have had about 7 or 8 different Youth Hostel stamps in my YHA memebers book at the end of my 2nd year as a CTC member.

Slipknotjonny

Naz-t

You won't make EPO out of Ephedrine, Caffiene & Aspirin. What you will make is ECA a thermogenic used to strip fat primarily, but also providing short term energy boost!