Gas vs. Meths stoves

Bigtallfatbloke

What are the pros and cons of these? I notice the meths stoves are cheaper, and so I am guessing not as popular?
All i really ned to be able to do is boil up a cuppa prety quickly and maybe heat up some rice n' beans...nothing more complicated....oh...and cheap and light is good.

amaferanga

If you want a quick cuppa then forget about meths stoves.

Meths stoves are cheap, light and simple, but sloooooooooooooow.

Gas stoves are not-so-cheap, light and not-so-simple, but quick.

KeithG

Ama is right, if you want cheap and light, I'd go with meths and the basic Trangia burner (or equivalent) the pot stand and kettle or pot. The wind barrier thingy is good if you're heading off to the mountains or doing a lot of cooking but adds bulk++
I have used a petrol/coleman fuel burner and they are great for car camping and for cooking for lots of folk or in bothies if you want a complicated long recipe but they add a lot of bulk and complexity and while most are very reliable, they do need some maintenance and I would never use them near or inside a tent alcove having seen a flare setting fire to a tent (not mine fortunately).
The downside of meths is speed (it isn't really that slow for one cuppa) and to some extent a poor simmering performance compared to gas.
Now i always use the Trangia on bike tours and plan my recipes accordingly.

Eurostar

How about a solid fuel tablet-burning jobbie? Can't get much smaller and cheaper than that. They're slow, but they work, and there's no liquid to spill. But you have to take enough tablets to last your whole trip. You can't get them except from camping shops.

Bigtallfatbloke

I looked a the Trangia burners...I'll only need the one man set....but have concerns over the speed of cooking and like mentioined above setting my tent alight!...not to mention setting myself alight....thinking it through I'm not to convinced I want meths leaking all over my panniers either.

...so what is the lightest gas cookset? There are so many it's hard to know where to start. Also the cylinders...are they heavy...are they universal i'e can i use any brand of cylinger with any cookset/burner? ....how many would I need to take if I am cooking every night? Can they be bought easy enough on route....I would think many campsites might have them available for sale no?

Brock_71

I just did two weeks touring the south coast with a trangia meths burner, it boils the kettle for two cups of coffee quickly enough, and heating beans etc in the pan is very quick. I stayed in 9 different campsites and I think only one of these had a shop that stocked meths, while only one of them DIDN'T stock gaz type cylinders. That said, I never ran out of meths, carrying a 500 ml bottle and buying a refill once from a small town decorating shop along the way.
I also reluctantly and carefully cooked in the vestibule of my tent twice, due to wet weather and didn't have a problem. You'd have to be pretty clumsy to knock the burner over.
Carrying meths in the panniers is a worry, although the bottles are pretty tough. Carrying a trangia fuel container in your bottle cage is probably the best way. I just put the retail bottle in the front pocket of one of the panniers without leakage.
I'd certainly do it this way again, but I may well get the gas converter for the trangia set for extended tours in the future, just to keep options open.

AchillesT

The pros aad cons of meths v gas have been discussed at length on Oudoors magic. I think the general finding is that gas is marginally lighter on say week long triips but only compared to a pepsi can type stiove. Trangios are very heavy.

I actually quite like cooking on trangias ( well my £5 Lidle Clone) - I cannot knock it over, for boil in the bag I just light it and leave it and here is very little to break. Not certain about cooking in the porch though. Having said that it is normally my MSR pocket rocket I take with me.

I might try a pepsi stove - backpacking light and Winwood do some - at 12 grammes it might be a good backup if not main stove. These are very popular in the states and tere are loads of sites with instructions of how to make one from 3 pepsi cans.

Bromptonaut

Another issue with LPG particularly with C206 and smaller cylinders is temperature. Basically if it's cold (ie below about 10celcius) the liquid won't vapourise to gas quickly enough and you only get a simmer size flame. Modern butane/propane mixes are better than straight butane, but IME can stil be a problem with the morning cuppa particularly at high level campsites eg in the Auvergene/Alps.

andrew_s

Bromptonaut wrote:

Another issue with LPG particularly with C206 and smaller cylinders is temperature. Basically if it's cold (ie below about 10celcius) the liquid won't vapourise to gas quickly enough and you only get a simmer size flame. Modern butane/propane mixes are better than straight butane, but IME can stil be a problem with the morning cuppa particularly at high level campsites eg in the Auvergene/Alps.

If you use one of the hosepipe gas stoves with a preheat loop, you can turn the cylinder upside down and run on liquid gas.
eg http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/camping/0040818117842 (MSR WindPro)
There are then no problems with lack of performance, and you are also burning the gas in the supplied mix, rather than burning off the propane preferentially, so you do better with the cylinder upright too, provided you don't do it too much.

I read in a mag that MSR have just brought out a stove designed for it, with a stand for the cylinder, an on/off valve at the cylinder, and a control valve at the burner (so you aren't groping under the canister for the control).

vernonlevy

Bigtallfatbloke wrote:

What are the pros and cons of these? I notice the meths stoves are cheaper, and so I am guessing not as popular?
All i really ned to be able to do is boil up a cuppa prety quickly and maybe heat up some rice n' beans...nothing more complicated....oh...and cheap and light is good.

As mentioned in one of the cycling plus forums re: your questionabout shaving - I recommend the Trangia because you can dual purpose the fuel if you choose overproof white cane spirit as your fuel :P

Trangias are simplicity personified. Speed is rarely an issue on my tours. The trangia is the first thing that I unpack and fire up while I erect the tent. The water is ready for tea by the time the tent's erected.

one needs to remember that the trangia pack volume is both stove and cooking/eating vessels. Compare the packing size of seperate pans and gas stoves before making a decision.

vernonlevy

Bigtallfatbloke wrote:

I looked a the Trangia burners...I'll only need the one man set....but have concerns over the speed of cooking and like mentioined above setting my tent alight!...not to mention setting myself alight....thinking it through I'm not to convinced I want meths leaking all over my panniers either.

...so what is the lightest gas cookset? There are so many it's hard to know where to start. Also the cylinders...are they heavy...are they universal i'e can i use any brand of cylinger with any cookset/burner? ....how many would I need to take if I am cooking every night? Can they be bought easy enough on route....I would think many campsites might have them available for sale no?

Re setting your tent alight - Trangias are the recommended stoves for Duke of Edinburgh Award expeditions because of their inherent safety. They are difficult to knock over and are extinguishable with water.

I've done 3000 miles of touring with a tangia and have never had a meths leak. I've used both the plastic containers and a metal fuel bottle without problems. Storing a plasstic bottle in the panniers is a no brainer - store it upright with the cap screwed on firmly.

Not all camp sites sell fuel of any description. Gas and meths consumption varies with the tasks that you perform with them. It's difficult to give a specific answer.

vernonlevy

Eurostar wrote:

How about a solid fuel tablet-burning jobbie? Can't get much smaller and cheaper than that. They're slow, but they work, and there's no liquid to spill. But you have to take enough tablets to last your whole trip. You can't get them except from camping shops.

Surely then that rules them out of a long tour? Doubt that the fuel costs are the cheapest. Metaldehyde tablets cost a lot more than meths for my Mamod steam engines. Wan't impressed with the smell either.

vernonlevy

Brock_71 wrote:

I just did two weeks touring the south coast with a trangia meths burner, it boils the kettle for two cups of coffee quickly enough, and heating beans etc in the pan is very quick. I stayed in 9 different campsites and I think only one of these had a shop that stocked meths, while only one of them DIDN'T stock gaz type cylinders. That said, I never ran out of meths, carrying a 500 ml bottle and buying a refill once from a small town decorating shop along the way.
I also reluctantly and carefully cooked in the vestibule of my tent twice, due to wet weather and didn't have a problem. You'd have to be pretty clumsy to knock the burner over.
Carrying meths in the panniers is a worry, although the bottles are pretty tough. Carrying a trangia fuel container in your bottle cage is probably the best way. I just put the retail bottle in the front pocket of one of the panniers without leakage.
I'd certainly do it this way again, but I may well get the gas converter for the trangia set for extended tours in the future, just to keep options open.

If one operates with the expectation that meths can be bought from:
* DIY stores such as Wilkinsons
* Garden Centres
* Pharmacies
* Some camping shops
* Garages/motor factors
* Agriculural merchants
* Builders' merchants
then it's very unlikely that the avaliability of meths will ever be an issue

In Scotland I was asked to sign a poisons register in a Thornhill DIY store when I bought some meths.

PHcp

For boiling water and heating stuff up I like the Jetboil
http://www.hnh.dircon.co.uk/jetboil_per ... system.htm
It's not the lightest, cheapest or fastest, it is a neat self contained unit that lasts ages on a small gas canister. Look on Ebay for the best prices.
MSR have also started making something similar with a heat exchanger, looks even better, as it should at twice the price.
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/0040818112052

Handy tip for getting the best performance with any gas stove is to stand them in a bit of water. Picked this up recently from another forum, don't understand why it works, but it does.
In Europe the availability of meths and gas seems about equal, taking a converter to use pierce canisters with screw type stoves increases the options. You can also get solid fuel for Trangias.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.a ... id=Frogoog
If I was going anywhere exotic I'd take a multi fuel stove rather than either.

nun

This is an old chetsnut!

I us a pepsi can type stove pot and pan combo made by Antigravity gear

http://www.antigravitygear.com/products.php?cat=3&pg=2

Everything weighs 11oz and I generally carry 8oz of fuel. The gas stoves work out lighter
for extended trips due to the higher energy density of the fuel, however, I like the alcohol stove ie meths, as I can pick the fuel up in most chemists and hardware stores as meths is basically just ethanol or denatured alcohol.

The stove boils a cup of water in a couple of mins with 0.5oz of fuel, its great for soups, couscous, oatmeal, tea etc. A windscreen is definitely a big help with the stove.

FYI if you use ethanol or grain alcohol (Everclear) your fue can be used as a disinfectant and also to make great cocktails, NB DON''T try this with meths!!!!!!