Anyone race XC?

Satchmo245

I posted this in the old forum so thought I might as well try here now.

I want to do it (race) but not sure where to start. I am still a noob and I'm sure I will come last to begin with but I just like the thought of competing, plus, it's an incentive to get fitter/faster/ballsier (you know what I mean) and well to better my technical skills. Also, I am currently building an XC machine and could do with a few pointers.

What sort of terrain are XC races usually held on? Would it get more gnarly than say a rocky bridlepath? Do they usually have drop offs? How high?? The reason I ask is that I am getting some SID's for my build and I'm not sure what they can take (or the frame for that matter). I have heard the SID's can be flexy and the frame (KHS Alite Team) is lightwight Alu!

Also, I have read that XC bikes should have flat bars (for a lower riding position I presume). Is this correct? If so, are there any other components that would be better on a XC bike that I may have overlooked?

If anyone could help or point me in the direction of some resource on the web then I would be very grateful. From what I have seen on the web the general consensus is that any hardtail is an XC bike....

So....do any of you race? Or have you raced before? Got any stories or advice on getting started?

Cheers

trengot

I raced for the first time this year for pretty much the same reasons as you.

I entered the Gorrick Spring Series. At the end of last summer i was relatvely fit and could ride quite well. Come february (the first race) i thought i was just as fit. My first mistake. I had not ridden for about four months.

In that first race i came 15th out of 16 (ahead of a DNF). I tried the next race (in a different class) and came 79th out of 111.

Even though i didn't do well it was great fun and next year i am hopefully doing it again.

As for bars it is enirely your choice. I think risers are much comfier.

Both races i was in were in woods/ forests and on mud/earth singletrack. there was some technicalk bits in it and steep climbs/descents as you'd imagine.

I wouldn't say it was any more challenging than some of the trickier bridleays but it is very different. Try going to a mtb centre beforehand such as Afan etc if you've not been before.

ANDE.B

SIDs are really flexy (but you can get used to that).. personally i wouldn't ride them unless i was really race-orientated though (cause they just arn't strong enough for anything more) RS rebas are a bt more all-rounder friendly...

as for flat-bars its all preferance...
some prefer flats, some not...
on the positive side flat bars put you in a more flat-out race position.... on the negative this can sometimes lower the front too much and put too much weight on your arms or make steering sketchy (especially on the downhills)

I started racing open events too this year (and since then i've been on a proper fitness rutine, cycling nearly every day)

Most races have laps with a bit of everything in...

as for drop-offs, my last race had a really severe drop... a few guys just rode flat out and cleared it (landing about 5ft to flat... and most bikes can do that fine) but personally i slowed down and rolled it.. and you'll probably always have that option in a race...

anyway, definately get out a race..... don't be put off if you don't get the best result cause half of the challenge is tactical (and you learn more about how you can push yourself and tactics in every race)
sounds like your building a fine ride too...

Satchmo245

Thanks guys,

Trengot, it sounds like you have been doing alright. Not bad results for your first two races. I would be very happy with not coming last! I am going to Dalby on Saturday which will be an insight I guess. I have never done any forest track/trail before so it will be an eye opener.

Ande.B, I did my first drop off the other day. Twas about 3ft but I didn't see it coming. I had not done the trail before and didn't realise it would be vertical! Oops. I did not have enough momentum to get me over as I would have liked but I stayed on the bike........just. I will get some practice in on Saturday though on my Avalanche.

As for the build, it's still in it's infancy really. I got the forks on order and the wheels (DT Swiss 4.2 rims, XT Hubs and DT Swiss Comp spokes) are ready to go on when the forks arrive. Stem, bars, seatpost (all Easton but may upgrade to carbon) and saddle are also waiting to be fitted. A nice new XTR crankset from Merlin is next if there are some left by the time I have the money for it.

Where did you guys find out about the races? I have been on the british cycling website and all the XC races in the North West are in the Isle of Man (which is the Isle of Man not the North West)!

Cheers

trengot

Have a look at British Cycling under the race calendar section. Or just google it.

bigdawg

dont worry about what bike youre riding, just get out there and do it...

You'll always find an excuse for not going to your first race, at the end of the day you dont want to end up looking like an idiot coming last...well someone has to.

Unless your actually planning on winning just get out there and have fun, results will improve with more races and you'll soon be overtaking more than you've been overtaken by...

Satchmo245

Cheers for all the info guys. I have found a race:

http://www.groovytribe.co.uk/race_dates.htm#loc

I think this will be suitable for me and it's not too far from where I live either. I will be entering the novice class of course for the September race as I can't make the July date. Has anyone got any idea of what time I should be looking at for a 10 mile XC race? My current time is about an hour but it's quite hilly where I live (getting the excuses in already )! Also, I think I heard that you should train a third of the distance more than the race ie, train 13 miles for a 10 mile race. Is this good advice??

Cheers

Simon 8)

bigdawg

however much you train now, within a minute of the race starting your heart rate will probably be ten beats higher than when youve ridden anywhere else.

JUst go out ride lots, get as much off road in as poss, and if theres loads of hills do loads of them too.

As soon as you start 'training' for a race, for me, it loses a lot of the fun aspect, I just ride as much as I can when I can, this usually (dont expect this fron the start) will get me into the top 10 or so depending on what kind of race it is (local, national etc...)

Satchmo245

Excellent, it sounds like you're doing quite well.

Yeah, I get out as much as I can. The more miles under my belt the better I guess. Should I vary the lengths/times of rides? Like ride for an hour somedays, other days 3 hours etc. etc? Or just basically as much and as often as possible??

bigdawg

i used to stick to a rigid training schedule about ten years ago, easy ride monday, intervals tuesday etc..., but come sunday I was knackered, now I just go out when I can, do what I can and listen to my body.

Sundays (non race) can vary from 10 miles off road to 101 on road depending on how I feel and who Im with, but my golden rule is total day off before the race, pre ride the course twice (obviously depending on lap size) on race day, and gun it - theres nothing worse than tired legs on the first climb of the race...

Over time, if you carry it on, you'll see what youre good at and what youre not, andthen you'll be able to concentrate on what you need to (hills, starts etc...) but for now as much varied terrain as possible, just dont overdo it, and have fun...

Satchmo245

Cheers for the help Big Dawg! I used to do alot of running and regimes bore me. So would you say that getting some road miles down is also good training for XC? Base fitness and all that?

With regards to starts is it worth sprinting off at the start with everyone or is it better to get straight into a good pace and start pecking?

bigdawg

hell yeah, Road miles for me at least are crucial, what with the wet weather Ive probably been doing 90% road and only 10% mtb. If you can build up your road miles, it can be very boring, which Is why I end up getting lost (hence the 101miles a week or so ago!)

The start of the race I used to be really good, but at the time I was commuting 20 miles a day, and used to race the cars away from the traffic lights, it was great interval training, but now only doing 10 miles a day with only one set of lights.

Youll be surprised at the speed at the atart of a race. If you can get a good start youve just saved yourself half a race. Cos Im good at climbing i tend to relax a bit more at the start and then pick people off on the hills, bit of a lazy way of doing things, but Im not sponsored any more, and Im really having fun - especially if you pass someone that sounds like theyre darth vader with asthma, and start talking to them on the hills - totally blows their mind :twisted: you see their slow down!

Satchmo245

Hehe, sounds like fun. I enjoy going uphil and I feel that may be my strength when I start racing. Certainly not going to be downhill, I'm still abit of a wuss (use my brakes too much) but I suppose confidence comes with experience. I haven't had an off yet so you could say I don't know the limitations of the bike. Especially cornering..... I know I need to lean more but I'm worried about sliding out. With mostly riding rocky bridlepaths I tend to take it easy.

Do you use a road bike for your road work?? Or is it better to chuck some slicks on my MTB?

bigdawg

do either, Ive actually got 2 road bikes and just about to get a cyclo cross bke!

About 8/9 years ago when I was racing every weekend (52 weeks a year :shock: ) my local mtb shop, who sponsored me at the time, employed a new mechanic, turns out he was an ex road pro just got back from a season in france, cut short by a real bad crash, used to go out on the road with him, but then he introduced me to Matt Illingworth (google the name - ex team linda mccartney, ex gb national squad etc etc...) and as a result of that all my traning from then on in was done on the roads, normally desperately chasing Matt (most times I needed binoculars - these guys were fast!), with maybe one off road ride just to keep my hand in. Ive been real lucky in some of the people ive ridden with and places ive ridden.

Before you do any tyre or bike buying, try riding some distance on the road, some people find it mind numbingly boring and cant get on with cars, depending onwhere you live, in the south east you take your life in your hands on the road!

Try and ride as many varied terrains as possible, the race I did on Wednesday consisted of about 6 downhill, muddy, rooty hairpins, you could have had spiked tyres and still not got any traction there. Def practice downhills, theres nothing more terrifying than trying to go down at your own pace, and people flying past you at speed (my first race I got off and walked doen them only to be overtaken by my girlfriend :oops: ), but you get used to them after a while.

Cornering can be tricky, Ive got my own method for loose no grip corners (involves sliding the back wheel and sticking my leg out - think motocross!!) but practice with tyre pressure, the lower the pressure the more grip youve got, but youll have less speed on the flats. I usually start off with the lowest it says on the side of the tyre and add or take out depending on the course. That course on the link youve posted looks like it could get real muddy though.

Also looks like you all set off at about the same time, the masters and experts will be fast, you may start after them but expect to get lapped by the leading riders.

Id do the July one just to get a taste of what its about, and then youve got 2 months to get better for the next one

Satchmo245

I wish I could do the July race as well but I'm busy doing some advanced maths course! I think you can imagine where I would rather be on a Sunday! It does look muddy which could be a problem. I got my first real taste of mud last week, it was like cycling on ice, even with full knobs on!

I'm doing 23 miles at Dalby Red tomorrow and then I will do some road miles once I have recovered and see what I think. I live on the Leeds Liverpool canal so that could be a good bet too. I think I will give it my all tomorrow, try and keep my speed up round the corners and see what happens.

Im ok on downhills.......ish. I did a ride not so long ago called the Mary Towneley Loop and I was easily keeping up with the blokes on Full Sussers on some of the trickier downhills. It's just drops and rooty stuff as you say that worry me. I had not done any real mud until last week so I don't have any real experience of that........yet.

We shall see 8)

As for bikes, should I use my XC bike when it's built for most training?? I also have an Avalanche which is my current bike but it's alot heavier. I'm hoping my build will be under 20lbs (or there abouts) so I would imagine that they will handle very differently.

bigdawg

The avalanche is that the GT?? Great bike for training and general riding, if youve got one youre building for racing and a heavier one for training/general riding its ideal, but make sure you also ride the light one off road, nothing worse than trying to ride fast on a bike you havent spent much time on.

The only place I personally try and save weight is on wheels, tubes (without going silly and risking punctures) and tyres. Theres no point in having a weight weenie race bike and then being 20 stone!! Revolving mass will however make a difference, especially in races.

I have no idea how much it weighs but im racing a full sus giant xtc (carbon version kitted with 10 year old 952 XTR!!), and Im still overtaking people half my ago on hills.

Seriously dont thret too much, youll end up worrying yourself out of the race. SOme of the guys racing wednesday were pretty much on downhill rigs, not great for going up, but hell theyre fast down.... oh and a right pain to get past in singletrack.

Satchmo245

Yeah, it's a GT Avalanche 1.0. Maybe I should use my Avalanche throughout the week and then use my race bike for my off road 20+ miler at the weekend. I think that's a good idea.

I have just got my wheels recently. They are quite light but nothing that breaks the bank (DT Swiss 4.2 rims on XT hubs). I'm pretty sure they will out perform me anyway :oops:

I need to get some practice on singletrack too. I almost came off on a bit of singletrack near me. Again it's the confidence thing. The ST in question was about 6-8 inches wide with slight grass bankings on either side and had just had some Recons fitted to my Avalanche which made the handling a lot lighter than previously. Just constantly thinking *Don't hit the bank at this speed* and of course I did Managed to ride it out somehow.

I went into my LBS earlier this week to pick up my new forks (SIDs) and some guy was having work done to his Santa Cruz Super 8. Man, that thing weighs like a metric ton! It was HUGE!! I wouldn't like riding that uphil, but I guess that's not what they're designed to do.

bigdawg

ahh the golden rule....if youre looking at it, you'll hit it!! We all do it, I know it sounds daft but try looking where you want to go and not at the sticky out tree trunks! :shock:

something else came to mind this morning do you have a cadence thing on a speedo...?? If you have try and keep it around 80-90 normally, and on the hills keep it above 70. If not dont panic, or rush out and buy one, just keep in mind when riding that you should try and spin as much as poss, but obviously not too much that it feels like your legs are going to fall off... On hills anything lower than 70 and you'll be struggling (imagine a car trying to climb a steep hill in 5th gear!)

Satchmo245

I have heard about the cadence stuff. My speedo doesn't have that but I am looking for a new one anyway.

Have you done Dalby Red route? I did it yesterday and I loved it. I had not done alot of that stuff before, especially the really technical stuff like steep rooty descents with drops etc. Is that would I should expect in XC races? Or is Dalby more of an All Mountain track? Like I said I really enjoyed it but if that's what I should expect in a race then I need to improve alot!

Some bloke overtook me on a berm! That was a bit un-nerving.....

bigdawg

sadly Ive ridden all over the world, and not done much in the UK!!

Most courses will try and get a mixture of terrain in, you can find flowing singletrack, drop offs, rooty descents, and nearly always short sharp climbs that'll stop you dead in your tracks and leave you struggling for traction...

Looking at the pics of that race you could be in for the rooty drop offs/downhills, but there'll obviously be climbing somewhere to get to the top of them...

try and fit in some tight singletrack (twisty with sharp turns), theyre always a bugger as theyre real hard to overtake on, practice will make you smoother in the corners...

Satchmo245

What sort of bike do you ride? I will be racing with a hardtail but some of the stuff we did on Sunday,mainly on the flat, was really lumpy and it took it's toll on my bottom Most of the lads were on full bouncers and they just glided over it.

I have started another thread aout SIDs and was just wondering what you thought of them. The general consensus is that they are just XC race forks but surely I would need to do some practice on them too......

You got any good race stories?? Achievements and stuff. Sounds like you must have been rather good

Rigid Raider

Simon, you could do worse than to come for a ride with us at Blackburnbikers. We are doing our "Burnley Urban" ride next Wednesday 11th, meeting at 7 pm at On Yer Bike. This will be a leisurely circuit of the fringes of Burnley, about 12 miles, finishing about 9.30. There are ususlly about 6 riders, some oldish (I'm 51 but fit!) and all of them will be able to give you advice on the best build for an XC bike.

See ouir website: http://www.blackburnbikers.co.uk/

FWIW mine is a Global Th1.5 from Ride On in Rawtenstall with flat bars and worn out SID fork. I'm going to replace this with a Reba when my wife stops buying curtains etc. The SID is a nice light fork but not suitable if you're heavily built. I'm 11 stone and the bike about 21lbs so I'd say that's about the limit for a SID.

Satchmo245

Hey Rigid Raider,

Ooooh, crikey! I'm about 12st 8lbs but over 6ft so it's stretched out if that makes any difference. I'm starting to get a bit worried now. Was just about to go and fit them today but now I'm thinking it might be best to just get rid and get some Rebas....

I'd love to join you guys on Wednesday. Should I fill out the membership form on the site or just turn up?? Is the route just road and bridleway? Just so I know what tyres to wear

cheers

Simon

bigdawg

Im running SIDS (world cup) wit hte carbon steerer thingy. Must admist I did only get them because they were cheap (!!??) but providing they're set up properly they'll work. Im 12st (5ft7) and have been racing on them for a year or so now, all conditions, no problem. Bit flexy but they do what theyre supposed to, only real drawback is checking the air pressures every ride.

Currently riding a giant XTC carbon full suspension, great (comfortable) ride, but it is always gonna be heavier than a rigid. I was offered a hardtail carbon xtc recently, could have built that into a sub 20lb bike but to be honest I love the one im riding. Getting the rigid would have been very fast and light but probably not as much fun, and to be honest the only place it would have been an advantage was on the hills, and i can overtake most people there anyway.

Stick with the rigid let a bit of air out of your tyres and you'll be fine. A full bounce in your first races will feel cumbersome, and you may get disheartened with the hardtail whippets flying past you...

DOnt know if i mentioned it before but riding with as many people as poss is great, you can always learn things from other riders and the more of you there are the more fun it is too... Around here I vary rarely see another mtb'r, hence huge miles on the road. ITs a shame we used to have some great riders locally. Get out with rigid raider and his pals come rain or shine you'll have a blast....

Stories I guess I have a lifetimes worth. Ive really been lucky and have ridden with some of the worlds best riders and in some of the worlds best places. Ive been real lucky and its still going on... If you ever get the oportunity Phoenix in the US has some ofthe best mtbing on the planet. Most of the trails are state maintained (owned and looked after by the local councils!!) and there are so many they actually have a 200 page book just with maps and trails... You can ride across moutains and through deserts for 5 hours and not see or hear a car or road...just gotta watch out for cactus pins and rattlesnakes :shock: !! Also if you go in the spring (when its only about 80degrees) you can find US teams (Disco etc...) in spring training... They also have some real good races with huge fields of riders..

Result wise I was always top ten (ish), never stood on the podiums, but to be honest it never bothered me (much!) I was always have a bit too much fun to follow my own training plans properly!! My Girlfriend though in the 90's was winning races all over the southern UK in the sport category, Ive got a loft full of medals and trophies (i guess the result of coming out with a lot faster guys all the time), and she says she only used to do it to stay fit!?

Rigid Raider

Simon, NIce to hear from you. Just turn up at the shop 7 pm, you can try us out before we ask you for your tenner membership! You might think we're a bunch of boring old boffers, though we range from twenties to fifties in age. Your membership gets you CTC third party insurance, which is worth having. I joined the club about 5 years ago and have had a lot of laughs and learned lots of new routes. Plus, it's a good incentive to get out if you're lacking enthusiasm.

On tyres, we don't do much tarmac on these evening rides and there will be some steps so go fat. However if you're racing, a 1.8 pumped up hard will be super-fast compared with, say, a 2.2. I used to do Polaris and I always used a 1.8 commuter tyre for speed. I run 1.8 Ground Controls permanently on my bike.

Some good advice from Bigdawg above, though I'm surprised he has to check the air every ride - I fitted mine about 3 years ago and haven't touched 'em since!

If you bought the SIDs, don't worry, they'll be fine. If you still have the choice I'd go for the Rebas. Tim Flooks advised me to get these, he says they're an excellent all-round XC fork and stiffer than the SIDs although a mite heavier. I once borrowed a Global from Ride On, it was set up with a Marathon fork and compared with my own Global on SIDs it felt superbly sure-footed on downhill stuff. The fork makes such a difference.

Ben.

Satchmo245

Sounds like a real blast, it's something I would love to do.

I have just started riding with another group too and it is so much more fun compared to riding on my own. They are the ones who were kind enough to take me to Dalby on Saturday.

As for the SIDs, you said what I wanted to hear . Do you just use them for races though or do you do some training on them too? Also, what sort of riding do you do on them? Any gnarly stuff like the small drops/rooty/rocky stuff you mentioned earlier? In my other thread some bloke has said that if I race them I will finish the race with oil pouring out of them! I am only a beginner but they seem to have a stigma attached to them but I feel it may be due to poor setup/what people have heard about them as opposed to their actual experience of them. It's good to know you have used them though.

Satchmo245

Hi Ben, I'll be there for 7 then. Cheers for the heads up, I'll see what the weather is like before I decide on tyres. I think I will stick with the SIDs for now and see how I get on. Time to get my hands dirty

Rigid Raider

My hap'orth on SIDs: I bought mine second hand over 3 years ago after they had been serviced by Tim Flooks. They have more than repaid me the £140 I spent. Before that I had always been full rigid, hence the forum tag, but I bought the Global frame and had to fit a longer fork so bought the SIDs. Since this is my only MTB I use them for all riding and find them definitely more comfy than a rigid fork. For example the first time I did the Mary Towneley, on a full-rigid Hei Hei, I felt absolutley ball-bagged at the end, physically knackered all over like I'd been buggered by a bull elephant on steroids. The following year I did the MTL again on my Global with SIDs and finished feeling considerably less tired, the difference was really remarkable.

On racing I have done winter Polaris with panniers in filthy conditions and they have coped fine; I have NEVER adjusted the air pressures. Now the anodising is beginning to wear a bit thin on the fronts of the stanchions and there is a tiny amount of play, hence the decision to go for some Rebas when funds allow. These are a good price too.

If anybody finds their SIDs leaking air or oil I would say send them to Tim Flooks and they'll come back bearing the scars of honourable hard use but working better than new.

Satchmo245

Tim Flooks, is he a local bike mechanic? I like to have a dabble myself but I will take note incase I make it worse (highly probable) so thanks.

I did the Mary Towneley Loop (Pennine Bridleway Challenge with the Rossy Harriers) last month I think it was. I had only been riding for 3 or 4 months so it was a BIG shock! the biggest ride I had done previous was 25 miles so I thought it would be a challenge but I should be fine. Wrong! 47 Pennine miles are a lot harder than I thought.The most painful 9 hours of my life! But I completed (riding on my own too!) which is my biggest achievement to date. No doubt that I will be doing it again next year.

Rigid Raider

Tim Flooks is the proprietor of TF Tuned Shocks, he has built up a super business servicing suspension forks and shocks. See: http://www.tftunedshox.com/ they do a very fast turnaround and everybody speaks very highly of them.

Yes, the MTL is tough, but it's a superb ride through some outstanding countryside. Yesterday over Haworth way I spotted a Pennine Bridleway fingerpost so I'm looking forward to the day they announce the completion of that as I have ideas to ride it from end to end.

If you fancy some epic rides we have a couple in the next few months, see the Rides section on our website. If you're new to MTBing you can adopt a few tricks to make these easier - for example have you tried adding a carbohydrate powder to your drinks yet? It makes a big difference on a long ride.

bigdawg

tim flooks is to Rock Shox is what Ross Braun is (was) to Ferrari - he makes them work better than Rock Shox thought was possible...