Ping Home Cinema buffs

Smeggers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peterbr

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ransos

In my view, unless you're spending serious cash, stick with a decent 2-channel hifi and pipe your telly through that. In my experience the sound quality is far better than the home cinema rubbish in Curry's, and of course it'll sound great for music too.
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This is good advice. I'd go secondhand, you could find a pretty good entry level hifi amp, say Arcam, Rotel etc. and some monitor speakers from KEF, Mission or Acoustic Energy for œ100-150. People often upgrade what is perfectly good and often pretty new kit. It'll sound much better then those 5-speaker cheap integrated packages, which apart from the fact they "do surround sound" have nothing whatsoever to recommend them.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.
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... doesnt the amp need to have a 5.1 digital decoder or something built in though?

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired

Unknown · June 2007

With a really good sound system you don't realise how loud it is until a Jack Nicholson lookalike, previously your mild-mannered neighbour, breaks the front door down with a fire axe and...

peterbr · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Smeggers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peterbr

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ransos

In my view, unless you're spending serious cash, stick with a decent 2-channel hifi and pipe your telly through that. In my experience the sound quality is far better than the home cinema rubbish in Curry's, and of course it'll sound great for music too.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is good advice. I'd go secondhand, you could find a pretty good entry level hifi amp, say Arcam, Rotel etc. and some monitor speakers from KEF, Mission or Acoustic Energy for œ100-150. People often upgrade what is perfectly good and often pretty new kit. It'll sound much better then those 5-speaker cheap integrated packages, which apart from the fact they "do surround sound" have nothing whatsoever to recommend them.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

... doesnt the amp need to have a 5.1 digital decoder or something built in though?

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Most DVD players have 2-channel analogue out as they can be used as normal CD players. I use this myself. I'd be looking at œ600+ for any 5 channel kit worth considering.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.

linfordlunchbox · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

It's a terraced house with brick walls Linford, but I'm aware that with a really good sound system because there's so little distortion you don't really realise how loud it is till you speak and can't hear yourself...
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Look on the bright side, you won't be able to hear your neighbours banging on your front door at that volume either.

The sort of frequences which a sub puts out is so low, it doesn't matter where the enclosure is, in fact, the further you can get from it, the better.

Better quality speakers have a port on the back of the speaker which is pointed to the corner of the room effectively increasing the distance and making the corner part of the enclosure design - which improves the quality.

I'd be inclined to build a bass reflex subwoofer enclosure as it is the most efficient design, and the less power required means less distortion !

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

ransos · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peterbr

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Smeggers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peterbr

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ransos

In my view, unless you're spending serious cash, stick with a decent 2-channel hifi and pipe your telly through that. In my experience the sound quality is far better than the home cinema rubbish in Curry's, and of course it'll sound great for music too.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is good advice. I'd go secondhand, you could find a pretty good entry level hifi amp, say Arcam, Rotel etc. and some monitor speakers from KEF, Mission or Acoustic Energy for œ100-150. People often upgrade what is perfectly good and often pretty new kit. It'll sound much better then those 5-speaker cheap integrated packages, which apart from the fact they "do surround sound" have nothing whatsoever to recommend them.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

... doesnt the amp need to have a 5.1 digital decoder or something built in though?

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Most DVD players have 2-channel analogue out as they can be used as normal CD players. I use this myself. I'd be looking at œ600+ for any 5 channel kit worth considering.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I once auditioned a œ2k home cinema amp with dolby decoding and all the rest of it. It wasn't bad, but the music reproduction wasn't a patch on the second hand Cyrus amp I had bought for œ200. Then you're looking at the cost of 5 speakers plus a sub.

Archcp · June 2007

My mate has data projector hooked up to his DVD player or laptop, and all wired in through his stereo, and projected onto a B and Q roller blind. I have no idea about the spec, or the cost, but it's great for watching DVDs or looking at digi photos. Or surfing the internet, but like, really, really big!

I don't suppose that helps, but I just wanted to share...[;)]

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

peterbr · June 2007

Absolutely Ransos, most cinema kit doesn't impress me either. The best I heard was from TAG MacLaren, but that was œ3k just for the receiver and was in a proper listening room. One of the best realisticly priced deals I heard was the Mission cinema 7 package (Richer SOunds had this several years back) of speakers with a fairly beefy Yamaha amp. This would come in around the price I said with some careful shopping, below that, stay 2 channel IMHO.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.

rothbook · June 2007

Ransos, linford, smeggers nick or peter, if you have the time or inclination could I impose on you to suggest a second hand set up please? A rough idea would do, then I'll have a snoop round ebay or summat.

Apart from my houses the most I've ever spent on an item is my touring bike and I don't want to change that to a TV, however good.

marinyork · June 2007

Projectors are absolutely great but if the lens breaks then you're completely screwed.

5.1 systems are good but I'm not sure it's worth the money for the decoder. I don't have one myself, I have a friend who has a 5.1 decoder that was c.œ300 and it's good but it is a bit fragile. Personally I'd say unless you have multiple sources to utilise it, it's not worth the money. He has XBOX 360, HD-DVD, DVD, PC. Some films can sound much better, for example I've seen the Harry Potter films at the cinema and at his and because the sound system was dodgy at the multiplex it sounded better on his. I remember seeing Ghostbusters in 5.1 and that was somehow more enjoyable.

linfordlunchbox · June 2007

If you are handy with a saw you could without doubt build a very good subwoofer enclosure to go behind a settee or in the shape of a coffee table for the cost of the speaker (10" is plenty and can be got for about œ35 on ebay),a couple of sheets of MDF, and some hot weld glue to seal it.

With subwoofers, design is everything. The idea is to make an enclosure which can use the sound coming out of the back of the driver and marry it up to what comes out of the front at exactly the same time for maximum punch. The time delay which the wave takes to travel through the enclosure and the port allows for these low frequencies to be felt as well as heard, or else if the distance is too short, they will cancel each other out and you lose all the very low frequencies which means you have to put more power in to get the volume out and get the associated and inevitable distortion from the amp which comes from clipping at higher voltages.

mid and treble speakers don't have this issue as the wavelengths are very short and air is fairly slow moving at sea level.

This 10" subwoofer driver is marketed for the car market, but would work perfectly well in a house driven from a decent house amp, and would rattle the windows of houses 3 doors away if enclosed properly and paired to a strong amp.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JBL-GT4-10-Car-Subwoofer-1000W-peak-250W-RMS-ICE_W0QQitemZ230146983690QQihZ013QQcategoryZ18805QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Smeggers · June 2007

I'd agree with Marin, surely a 2 channel system is just like your normal telly but louder and better quality?

5.1 gives you the sound effects, and speaking of Harry Potter, nothing tests the 5.1 better than that dragon in the first film!!

Sorry Rothbrook, I dont know enough about these things to offer any meaningful advice. Mine was an 'off the peg' Sony system which with the DVD player cost me about 500 quid.

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired

ransos · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Smeggers

I'd agree with Marin, surely a 2 channel system is just like your normal telly but louder and better quality?

5.1 gives you the sound effects, and speaking of Harry Potter, nothing tests the 5.1 better than that dragon in the first film!!

Sorry Rothbrook, I dont know enough about these things to offer any meaningful advice. Mine was an 'off the peg' Sony system which with the DVD player cost me about 500 quid.

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I completely disagree actually. Having tried 5.1 I'm far happier with a high quality 2 channel system. You don't get a stereo image from a TV as the speakers are too close together, so proper 2 channel is a huge improvement.

I guess though that if films were a priority and I hardly listened to music, I might consider 5.1. Still find all the speakers and cables a pain though.

Gary Askwith · June 2007

'Home cinema'...isnt that about as satisfing as 'Home Hiking'....?

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Smeggers · June 2007

Ransos:- Unless you're listening to SACD's of course? (5.1 music)

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired

ransos · June 2007

Smeggers - I've never heard SACD, and the lack of material means I probably never will. It's an interesting point though - if the aim of music reproduction is to give you the impression that the band is playing in front of you live, then what's the point of having speakers behind you? I can kind of see the point of a centre speaker, but with good stereo speakers you don't miss it. And you can use either full range speakers or a sub to get the bass on 2 channel anyway.

I'm not saying that 5 channel can't sound great, it's just that I think you have to spend several grand for something halfway decent, whereas a decent stereo setup is a small fraction of the cost, which will sound better with music, and will be more than adequate for the odd DVD.

Smeggers · June 2007

Aye, SACD's are a gimmick tbh. Ive got a few and some are no better than 2.1 and others are quite good (particulary the Human League one)...

However, I would disagree that a 2.1 system sounds better than the equivalent 5.1 system, unless your an audiophile, the gimmick of 5.1 will outweigh the minute improvement in quality on 2.1. (pound for pound)

I suppose its like trying to convince a non cyclist how much better a Colnalgo is over a Halfords special. Unless you've got a bit of experience, you aint gonna see it.

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired

il_principe · June 2007

A good home cinema is the mutts nuts! Look at Marantz or Yamaha 5.1 amps with Acoustic Energy or Mission Speakers. The joy of Home cinema is it's upgradability. I run a Marantz 5.1 decoder and have added 3 rotel power amps, 1 for a pair of floor standing AE speakers, one for the centre AE speaker and one for the 2 wall mounted rear AE speakers, a subwoofer is the next purchase but the floor standing speakers can put out fairly impressive low frequencies.

My Best Bike

ransos · June 2007

I think your analogy is quite apt - it's only when you're no longer seduced by the bells and whistles that you see why 2 channel is better than 5.1, just like why someone riding a full suspension halfords jobbie would never understand why I would spend so much on a bike that has no suspension or disc brakes! But as I said, it depends on priorities - if you want a hifi mainly for music with the odd film, then 2 channel is the way to go. If you want it mainly for film, and can put up with your lounge being full of speakers and cables, then 5.1 it is. And as someone else said, you can get something reasonable for this purpose from Richer Sounds, say a Pioneer or Yamaha receiver coupled with a Mission speaker package for example.

Ghost Donkey · June 2007

If you've really only got œ50 and want good sound look at headphones. Wired type preferably as the wireless crap takes ocst away from sound quality.

il_principe · June 2007

Or why not just have a system that can do both? I have 2 channel for music and 5.1 for films. I just run everthing through a preamp, leaving the home cinema and 2 of the 3 power amps turned off when I'm listening to music. No need to compromise on either if you don't want to.

My Best Bike

ransos · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jashburnham

Or why not just have a system that can do both? I have 2 channel for music and 5.1 for films. I just run everthing through a preamp, leaving the home cinema and 2 of the 3 power amps turned off when I'm listening to music. No need to compromise on either if you don't want to.

My Best Bike
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Indeed. At one time I ran a Meridian pre-amp into a Roksan 5 channel power amp, and it was very impressive. But I got bored of my front room looking like a hifi store, and the dedicated 2-channel system I have now (Cyrus CD & amp, Audiovector speakers) is better for music anyway.

Smeggers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ransos

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jashburnham

Or why not just have a system that can do both? I have 2 channel for music and 5.1 for films. I just run everthing through a preamp, leaving the home cinema and 2 of the 3 power amps turned off when I'm listening to music. No need to compromise on either if you don't want to.

My Best Bike
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Indeed. At one time I ran a Meridian pre-amp into a Roksan 5 channel power amp, and it was very impressive. But I got bored of my front room looking like a hifi store, and the dedicated 2-channel system I have now (Cyrus CD & amp, Audiovector speakers) is better for music anyway.
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Do you have a link of anything I can read to find out what on earth your talking about?! Pre-Amp, Power Amps etc???!!!

Hickory Dickory Dock,
A baby elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired

il_principe · June 2007

Power amps: http://europe.rotel.com/products/stereo ... ifiers.htm
Pre amps: http://europe.rotel.com/products/stereo ... ifiers.htm
Home Cinema amps: http://www.marantz.com/new/index.cfm?fu ... eries=comp
Excellent british made speakers: http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/Produc ... /index.asp
Home Cinema wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_cinema

My Best Bike

Kestevan · June 2007

Or then again, if you just want to dip your toes into the surround sound (5.1) world without stripping off and diving in Bo**ock naked you could probably do worse than look at something like this....

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... uid=128648

Not the best by any stretch of the imagination, but if all you want is a step up from the TV speakers for the occasional movie then at this price its worth a dabble.

Why is it uphill BOTH ways?

ransos · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kestevan

Or then again, if you just want to dip your toes into the surround sound (5.1) world without stripping off and diving in Bo**ock naked you could probably do worse than look at something like this....

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products ... uid=128648

Not the best by any stretch of the imagination, but if all you want is a step up from the TV speakers for the occasional movie then at this price its worth a dabble.

Why is it uphill BOTH ways?
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I really wouldn't. My parents bought a similar system against my advice and it's awful. Sure it might impress your mates for 5 minutes with the sub cranked up, but the sound quality is very poor, and absolutely woeful with music.

515mm · June 2007

To anyone looking for a home theatre - get down to your local hi-fi store. Make sure they have a cinema demonstration room and it's a good idea if they're a member of BADA - the British Audio Dealers Association. Tell them what you want the system for(games/movies only or will it have to perform with music also), take a simple plan of the room. Tell them if it's going to be a dedicated room - i.e your significant other won't complain if it looks like a cinema and not a lounge/sitting room. The configuration of the room is critical. If the telly/display has to sit in a corner it'll compromise the performance of the system as a whole. I can go into more detail here if you like(I work in the industry) though a good dealer is worth his weight in C-Record and will be able to help you much more in person. Do you live near an Audio T? Those chaps are usually very good.

A good dealer will ask you a lot of questions and offer you a demonstration of the recommended gear. When you go back for the demo (don't expect it there and then - a home theatre takes time go set up properly) take some choccy biccies, offer them up and ask them to get the kettle on! It's a great icebreaker, you'll get smashing service and you'll have fun. The whole experience SHOULD be fun. But remember - good advice costs money. Don't get miffed if, when you ask for their 'best price' they offer very little off(they will probably give you accessories(cabling) to the value of 10% of the value of the hardware but you'll pay for installation. Alternatively, pay for everything but ask them to calibrate the system in your home - this will ensure top performance and is worth far more than money off. Also, in the future, they'll be far more likely to help you out when you hit problems) Bricks and mortar stores cost money, good staff cost money and better quality gear has significantly lower profit margin. The end result of a system performing to it's very best is more important than a few quid off. You'll be kicking yourself if you 'spoil the ship for a ha'peth of tar'.

Si homini ignem das, unem diem ardebit; si hominem incendis, reliquem vitam ardebit.

nicklouse · July 2007

Not a HiFi or Home cinima buff but i like my music.

and i have ended up with a HiFi shop in my front room will it matches the bike shop in the kitchen.

It all started when my 20 year old HiFi stuff started falling to pieces.
so i replaced the speakers. then i heard the amp was crackeling so that got replaced at the same time i decided that the 15 year old CD player need the boot as well.

Well the difference was amazing and the cost in the 4 figures. great stereo spead good volume etc.... but the 100 quid DVD player was a bit iffy so i started looking at replacing it and started looking at combined DVD players and amps with speakers and subs. Had a good listen to a few then went home and put a DVD on. it just blew them away with 2 speakers.

But i was still not sure i had looked at every thing.....

so of i went and replaced the DVD player and looked at some proper AV amps well another 4 figure sum later i had the AV amp and a set of speakers.

Yes it is worth it. but it does cost.

rothbook · July 2007

"Well the difference was amazing and the cost in the 4 figures. "

Aaaaaaarrrrggghhh!!!

Ping Home Cinema buffs

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