Hard to describe, but i feel my bike overshoots...

Unknown

I'll be honest and say that up until the last 6 months, all my cycling has been on mtb frame derivatives.

I recently bought my first road bike, a Trek 1400 '07 model which i am thoroughly pleased with. I know its not a boutique brand, but it fits, was good value, and most importantly extremely reliable. When I'm out on a ride, i climb fine, cruise fine, tuck for descents fine, brake fine, but i just dont seem to be able to corner like i feel and know i should.

I just often seem to shoot wide on the exits and i can't seem to sort it out properly. One of my other bikes is an mtb frame which 28mm slicks on it. If i hit the same corners on that, i feel i have total confidence to commit to the corner, the apex and the shoot out nice and tight.

On the Trek, i'll hit the same corner, commit to the corner at the same speed with the same line in , but drift out wide to the point that sometimes i think "uh oh, i'm going to run off here "

You can see my typical position in this photo... So i do load the outside pedal and do lean the inside knee in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/ ... etape1.jpg

but does anyone have good tips to try in order that i can get that confidence to tighten up the line to the same degree that i can manage on a slick mtb setup?

Do you load the front or rear wheels in a particular way?
Or an I just a wimp and worry too much about losing grip? and i should just lean it over and hope!

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MTB eijit

Unknown

Get your back flat so your centre of gravity is nice and low as you approach, stay relaxed with a light grip on the bars. When you turn in keep your eye fixed on the line you want to take and the bike will automatically follow that. If you are drifting wide it will be because you are looking at what you want to avoid instead of where you need to be.

If anyone gives you advice about countersteering ignore it. You are already doing that or you wouldn't turn at all. It is something a two wheel vehicle does automatically in a corner, no input needed.

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Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

Unknown

This relates to m'cycles, but I guess that the essentials hold:

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/neustr.htm

Sounds like understeering. I only recently encountered this on a pedal bike. My full sus Kona Sex One was taking me wide into every corner. Now, despite being a bit of a barge, these were originally reckoned to be pretty good XC racers, so handling SHOULD be o.k.

A shorter stem seems to have improved matters considerably, so perhaps all down (in this instance at least) to weight distribution and resulting geometry (which of course varies with weight and direction with a full bouncer)?

d.j.
"Not much to see,
Not much left to lose"

carbonbasedlifeform

Without any pretence to expertise here, I'll volunteer one other thought - try playing around with a different fork if you are able.

When I switched bikes I found my cornering changed dramatically (for the better). Mike Burrows makes some interesting observations in his book on bike design regarding the relationship between steering experience and the angle of the head tube (and the angle of the fork). The closer to the vertical the better the steering, although there are other trade-offs. This relationship could also explain the influence a stem can have on the steering feel.

Jacomus-rides-Gen

fisha, you are suffering a very common problem when switching from mtb to roadbike.

The root cause of the feeling is your head, no, not inside! It is the angle your head is put at by the roadbike frame compared to the mtb frame.

You head, and more specifically where you are looking, leads your bike through the corner. I would be willing to bet that dropping into corners your shoulders are tight, the bike feels twitchy and I am absolutely 100% sure that if you take the same corner on your mtb and then your roadbike, focus on where your vision is centred, you will be looking a good 1-3meters further ahead on your mtb. Your shoulders will be more relaxed and you will have leaned slightly forwards at a kind of 11'o'clock direction. Compared with on the roadbike where, judging from what you have said and looking at your picture, you have tensed up expecting the bike to go twitchy (which, btw <i>makes</i> the bike go twitchy!) and you are sitting yourself back more upright.

Here are some tips to get you cornering like you know you can.

1) Relax! Go out on your own so that there is no pressure and practice riding through a few corners over and over, flat ground is the best for this. Take them at your own pace, and don't race through them, put all your effort into making them as smooth as possible.

2) When doing number 1, try it a few times on the drops or the tops to find out which you prefer. Personally I spend most of my time in the drops, and definitely prefer to corner in the drops. But that is personal, try it out. I like it, because a bit like you in that photo, there are corners where you want to be covering your brakes. Being in the drops lets me cover the brakes with one finer on each lever, but still have my hands in a firm, natural grip on the bars. If you don't get on with cornering in the drops, I would recommend changing how you hold your levers slightly. Currently all that is holding you on is the grip of your thumbs round the hoods. Try resting two fingers naturally over the brake levers, and with your ring and little fingers curl them under to grip the bars gently.

3) When approaching a corner, make an effort to relax and lean slightly forwards and into the corner. Leaning forwards is important for 2 reasons - it weights the front wheel to help keep the bike stabilised, and if you lose the bike you are much more likely to slither to the ground as the front goes than to lose the back, where you will try and sit it up and then proceed to hit whatever scenery there is at the side of the road.

4) When leaning forwards, think of a clock face with 12 in front of you and 6 behind you the line going along your top tube. Depending on the direction of the corner aim to be leaning at halfway between 10 and 11 or 1 and 2. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LEAN VERY FAR off the bike, just enough to bend your elbows a bit and relax your shoulders.

5) As you lean into the corner, there is a nasty temptation to drop your head slightly, it is actually a physical effect of the centripetal force you experience, the force opposing the centrifugal force of you cornering. This is the same force that you will notice on your mtb that makes the back of your head feel heavy when you corner and causes you to look up a little more. The position of your head relative to your centre of gravity on both bikes is different, hence the different effects from the same force. Gently resist the temptation to drop your head by raising your chin a touch and looking at where you want to be on the exit not where you are in the corner. Your eyes should be at the same angle (if you get me) as they are when riding in a straight line.

6) Finally, AS you lean in NOT before, weight the outside pedal.

7) Don't just chuck yourself into corners and stop worrying - if you wipe out you will knock your confidence back by months. Build up slowly, and remember that there are certain types of corner an mtb will be able to takes faster than a roadbike, simply down to geometry and weight distribution. Smooth riding is the key, not out and out speed.

8) Braking can have a serious effect on the following corner http://www.robertniles.com/stats/stdev.shtml Check out the second graph down the page, it illustrates perfectly how braking effort should be applied. Roll on in blue, pull harder in green, maximum force necessary for the corner in red, then roll off just before you drop into the corner so that the bike doesn't get unsettled by you suddenly releasing the brakes.


Hopefully this will help you out, I have one final thing I noticed - try dropping your saddle by 2 - 4mm, bet you it makes a positive difference to your whole ride not just cornering.

Good luck, and make sure you tell us how it goes.


You head, and more specifically where you are looking, leads your bike throguh the corner

_________________________
<i>Quote: "25mph is pretty fast when you aren't wearing a car..."</i>

OnTow

Fork offset plays a part too - If the vertical drop from the stem falls behind the axle (i.e. short stem), the steering gets really lively - apparently!
I think I first read this on Sheldonbrown.
Of course, this would ruin your riding position!

I have found my bikes with smaller wheels more reactive to turning.
Maybe it's something to do with gyroscopic forces?

Borrowing a lighter radially laced front wheel may be an option worth trying.

Simon Notley

You look like you might benefit from relaxing your arms and moving onto the drops, shifting your weight downwards and forwards a little. Also, make sure your braking is all done before the corner as trying to shave speed during the turn will automatically tense your arms up again.

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If I had a baby elephant, I'd fit right in here.

Unknown

Wow, all very good tips there, i'll need to out and practice me thinks.

I can relate to a lot of points . . .especially the look to where you want to go type ones. I think i do look to the point where i'm worrying i might up and so the bike starts going there!

On the points of braking, i'm happy about how I kill the speed and starting the right line in, my issue isn't that i go in too hot, i know i go in at a suitable speed for the corner. It just seems that as i approach the apex and out, i just am not getting as well as other people around me . . . i really noticed this on the etape caledonia. i was going the same speed as others into corners, yet they exited tighter... this prompted the question on how can i improve.

I'll certainly make more of an effort on relaxing and leaning the body in, forward and through the corner and looking towards the better line out.

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MTB eijit

monty_dogcp

Agreeing with above - try and thing of a turn as trying to keep a steady and consistent radius, rather than having to constantly adjust your steering. Keep the weight low and between the wheels - too far forward and you'll understeer/wash-out the front wheel. Too far back and you'll oversteer/skid. Don't make a death grip with the bars - keep relaxed and 'go with the flow'. If you need to brake mid-turn, you'll need to straighten-up - don't lean, otherwise you'll destabilise the bike and possibly lose control.

on the road

Is your saddle at the correct hight? It's hard to tell by looking at that picture but it somehow doesn't look right, maybe it's just the way the photo was taken.

Garybee

Fisha, from the photograph you have posted the problem is obvious. Your unshaved MTBer legs and baggy shorts are causing excessive form drag. The buffeting must be causing some instability and reducing the grip you are getting from your tyres.

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Hypocrisy is only a bad thing in other people.

roshi chris

Something I learn from the man Armstrong (from a book, not personally unfortunately!) was to press the inside knee into the top tube when cornering, rather than splay it out motorbike style. Helps keep the bike stable, I always do it.

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"Not everyone understands house music. Its a spiritual thing; a body thing; a soul thing." Eddie Amador

Unknown

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Your unshaved MTBer legs and baggy shorts are causing excessive form drag<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Gary . . . i am resisting !!! someone has to take a stand !

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Is your saddle at the correct hight? It's hard to tell by looking at that picture but it somehow doesn't look right, maybe it's just the way the photo was taken.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I set my saddle the same way i set it on my mountain bike. when on the bike, put my heel on the pedal at the bottom of its stroke and i can just lock out my leg. Its comfy for me when i'm riding along and powering in the saddle, that being said, when i come off the mtb and onto the road frame, the seat somehow feels like its lower ? I'll double check it, but it is certainly at a comfortable height for the longer rides.

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MTB eijit