Rape and Judges

oldwelshman · June 2007

Oh, and by the way, not that it matters as they were found guilty of rape, but can any one seriously belive the claim a 10 yearold looks 16? No way, I have 2 daughters and I am no expert but I would know the difference between 10 and 16, maybe not 16 to 18 but there is a huge difference in development between 10 and 16.
What a crap excuse for a defence.
personally I would also bang up the Judge along with the defence lawyers, where's their conscience?

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oldwelshman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldwelshman

Sentance is simple, irrspective of whether the girl was 10, 20 or what she was wearing, rape is rape.
Save the prisons for more worthwhile criminals and for these cut their balls off to prevent re offence and save money by not sentancing them to prison. They cannot re offend without the tools!!

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As rape now includes oral sex, do you cut the tongue off as well?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Actually that sounds a good idea so we would not then have to listen to the crap they spouted as defence.

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Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldwelshman

What a crap excuse for a defence.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It wasn't a defence.

oldwelshman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldwelshman

What a crap excuse for a defence.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It wasn't a defence.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don't care, off with their balls I say.

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Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldwelshman

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldwelshman

What a crap excuse for a defence.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It wasn't a defence.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don't care, off with their balls I say.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Have you worked for The Sun for long?

oldwelshman · June 2007

Errrr , no sorry never read it past page 3 sorry [:D]
I am an ex miner originally from south wales so used to reading classier standard of paper, the daily mirror [:D]

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CometGirl · June 2007

It's nice to see everyone rushing into judgement, but it might be worth reading through some of the judge's sentencing remarks (even if they are only as reported in the Metro, which isn't quite the Times Law Reports.)

Here.

The original paper version also included a report that when the girl was interviewed by police, she said that she thought Fenn thought the sex was consensual, although she was "unsure" whether it had been or not.

IF - and it's a big if - he genuinely thought she was 16 and that it was consensual, what do you do? The judge had the benefit of hearing the evidence. We didn't. Judges are generally pretty cynical. If the judge found on the facts that he did genuinely think he was having consensual sex with a 16 year old, the sentence is appropriate.

If on the other hand the judge is a dirty old man who simply has a soft spot for rapists, it's not.

oldwelshman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

It's nice to see everyone rushing into judgement, but it might be worth reading through some of the judge's sentencing remarks (even if they are only as reported in the Metro, which isn't quite the Times Law Reports.)

Here.

The original paper version also included a report that when the girl was interviewed by police, she said that she thought Fenn thought the sex was consensual, although she was "unsure" whether it had been or not.

IF - and it's a big if - he genuinely thought she was 16 and that it was consensual, what do you do? The judge had the benefit of hearing the evidence. We didn't. Judges are generally pretty cynical. If the judge found on the facts that he did genuinely think he was having consensual sex with a 16 year old, the sentence is appropriate.

If on the other hand the judge is a dirty old man who simply has a soft spot for rapists, it's not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the same judge who suggested in a previous case that another young victim be bought a bike ?
Come on get real, two guys having sex with a 10 yearold they though looked older? The girl does not know if it was consensual or not?
They knew what they were doing!!

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Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

Judges are generally pretty cynical. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Make that "very." They spend much of their lives listening to lies being told by unpleasant criminals.

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens
As rape now includes oral sex, do you cut the tongue off as well?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Patrick, you seem to miss the fundemental point that rape is not about 'sex' per se but about power. It is an act of violence, a violation of personal autonomy. As far as I'm concerned, the exact nature of the thing that is forced on the victim is rather less important than the the lack of consent. Therefore I am glad that the law is moving in the right direction.

Unkraut - you are, I think, entirely correct about the wierd combination of prudishness and promiscuity in Britain. The immense hypocrisy about sex in Britain is I think at the root of our problems with teen preganancy, STDs etc. There is a very mean disapproving conservative attitude towards sex education and provision of sexual health services which assumes that if you tell kids anything the whole of society will fall apart, when in fact the opposite is true. See the recent fuss over the cervical cancer jab. British society in general neither likes nor trusts children, and therefore gets neither in return from kids.

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

Patrick, you seem to miss the fundemental point that rape is not about 'sex' per se but about power. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"M'lud, although no sexual contact took place, he raped her by exercising power."

"Yes, and I'm raping you by using my power to kick this prosecution out."

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens
"M'lud, although no sexual contact took place, he raped her by exercising power."

"Yes, and I'm raping you by using my power to kick this prosecution out."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you really don't know what I meant, you'd be advised to read some decent (feminist) writers on the subject of rape. I'm not really interested in getting into 'hilarious banter' about it, becuase I don't find it very funny. Apart from the obvious general ethics, there's reasons for this which I'm not going into. Sorry but this is one thing I really don't have any sense of humour about.

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

If you really don't know what I meant, you'd be advised to read some decent (feminist) writers on the subject of rape.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Lighten up FM - I know what you were driving at, but you made the point badly. Of course there is a strong element of power control in some rape cases, but not in the depressingly frequent opportunist sex with a drunk or drugged woman - it's just someone trying to get his rocks off.

And as for feminist writers - they've done more than anything else to let rapists walk free. The moment politics comes into a rape trial, the jurors' eyes glaze over and the defence barrister perks up.

"Members of the jury, my client is not being prosecuted because of his admission/the DNA/the CCTV footage. No, you heard the reason why from prosecuting counsel - it's because he's a man and all men are said to be rapists................."

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldwelshman

Oh, and by the way, not that it matters as they were found guilty of rape, but can any one seriously belive the claim a 10 yearold looks 16? No way, I have 2 daughters and I am no expert but I would know the difference between 10 and 16, maybe not 16 to 18 but there is a huge difference in development between 10 and 16.
What a crap excuse for a defence.
personally I would also bang up the Judge along with the defence lawyers, where's their conscience?
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You'd have to bang up the doctors who examined the girl as well, as they also thought she was old enough. In most cases it would be very obvious that a ten year old could not possibly have reached the age of consent, but there are always exceptions and in this case those who saw the girl seem to agree that this was the case. If it was accepted that the defendant genuinely believed the girl was old enough and she was physcically mature enough to have passed herself off as being so and was a willing participant, then the sentence was correctly applied in this particular case.

There is a difference in being found to be mistakenly in the wrong and being an evil molester of someone you know to be a child. Whatever damage was done to this particular girl was done long before this event occurred.

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grayo59 · June 2007

The care home staff who let this girl out dressed like this are disgraceful. If you've got a ten year old who is promiscuous and looks sixteen she is an accident waiting to happen. Fire the person most responsible.

The 24yr old should get 8 years.

I don't know about the second man - I don't see how he fits in - but if they worked together to "persuade" said 10 yr old (who might have looked sixteen) then they should both get 12 years and <s>have their balls lopped off</s> be chemically castrated.

As for rape (as in forced sex - not necessarily the legal version) - 12 years to death penalty depending on the circumstances.

eg - old biddy asleep in bed and raped by burglar - death penalty - no question.

__________________
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top_bhoy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Smokin Joe

You'd have to bang up the doctors who examined the girl as well, as they also thought she was old enough. In most cases it would be very obvious that a ten year old could not possibly have reached the age of consent, but there are always exceptions and in this case those who saw the girl seem to agree that this was the case. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not quite what the article says though - it was more along the lines that the doctors thought she was mid-teens. No mention of doctors saying that they thought she was over the age of consent which your comments suggest. Of course there may be other articles....

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Unknown · June 2007

The judge said he faced a moral dilemma because the "young woman" had been wearing a frilly bra and thong.

Dr Michele Elliott of Kidscape called the decision "utterly derisory".

"For the judge to say that the way she was dressed in any way excuses a 24-year-old man having sex with her is disgraceful and ridiculous."

A 10 year old described as "a young woman"!!!!

george

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Rape and Judges

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