Square Taper BB

urbanfatboy · June 2007

How many sizes of Square Taper BB axle are there? It seems that each time I buy a crank off ebay, it's the wrong size for the current build, too big or too samll

What are the standard sizes?

monty_dogcp · June 2007

How long's a piece of string? They can come in a range of sizes from 103mm long all the way to about 125mm. To complicate things, there are two common BB thread sizes, BS and Italian. BS usually have a 68mm shell whereas Italian are 70mm - you can get 73mm shell sizes too. Finally there are two types of taper - ISO (predominantly European) and JIS (Japanese e.g. Shimano). Perhaps if you let us know what type of cranks you are using and somebody can probably advise.

pbiggs · June 2007

There are loads of different axle lengths. There isn't a standard set, it depends on the make and model.

Find out what the crank manufacturer recommends and go from there.

~Pete

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

There are not only different widths but different types of square taper, 'JIS' and 'ISO' so if you do need a new bb it would be a good idea to do the research to make sure you get the correct one.

JIS, which I believe stands for 'Japanese Industry Standard' and used by Shimano and many of the other Asian Manufacturers, so if you have bought unbranded chainset model then it is probably JIS. the ISO size is normally what the European manufacturers use as standard, like Campagnolo, although be careful as some European manufacturers, TA for example actually use JIS

Although they look similar they are very slightly different, they both use the same two degree taper, the main difference is in the actual length of the taper, the JIS version is slightly longer, so if you try and put a crank designed for a JIS BB onto an ISO shorter tapered BB which would happen if you use a Shimano Chainset onto a Campagnolo BB, then the crank may go to far up to the end of the taper, so you will be tightening the axle bolt against the axle, as apposed to the crank onto the axle, not such a problem vice versa of course as the crank depth will not reach the end; still not to be recommended.

Many manufacturers list BB widths for their chainsets so it is often possible to find out what you need, would definetly second the advice from ~Pete, "Find out what the crank manufacturer recommends and go from there."

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

Sorry, I was unclear, the axles length is not so much the problem, rather the size of the square hole in the crank. How much variation is there in the size of these?

Oh, I see the previous poster has addressed this. But if my Shimano hole is too small and I don't know anything about my axle, what should I try next?

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Well you will need a new bb by the look of it as a Shimano hole should fit on most brackets, what Shimano chainset you using and on what type of frame and bike? Frames can have different width shells, double or triple chainset, road bike with narrow stays or ATB with wider stays etc.

This site may help http://sheldonbrown.com/home.html

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

Sorry, I was unclear, the axles length is not so much the problem, rather the size of the square hole in the crank. How much variation is there in the size of these?

Oh, I see the previous poster has addressed this. But if my Shimano hole is too small and I don't know anything about my axle, what should I try next?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

I'm using a shimano 600 crank to fit on a Visount frame with the pressed BB. Is the Campag 'hole' any bigger?

urbanfatboy · June 2007

Sheldon said that they had TA pattern cranksets, should that help me?

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Shimano 600 cranks have been available for a long time, assume you mean Viscount frame, which will be a standard road frame with normal road stays and a British threaded BB, so will need a JIS taper of standard double width, most likely to be a 113mm width with 68 Shell.

The 600 was the name the Ultegra was called (often called both) and normally they had seperate BB cups, axle and bearings, the modern sealed types of correct size will fit OK

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

I'm using a shimano 600 crank to fit on a Visount frame with the pressed BB. Is the Campag 'hole' any bigger?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

But from what you say, the Shimano 600 will have a JIS taper, yet this will not even fit on the axle.

Garybee · June 2007

What BB have you bought?

Hypocrisy is only a bad thing in other people.

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Although not correct the JIS chainset will physically go on an ISO BB; so must have an unusual BB, it reads that you have just bought the chainset not BB is that correct? If yes suggest 113mm Shimano bb with a 68 shell.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

But from what you say, the Shimano 600 will have a JIS taper, yet this will not even fit on the axle.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

I haven't bought a BB, still using the one that came with the Viscount.
So you think if a Shimano one doesn't go on, then a Campag one is unlikely to as well?

Garybee · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

I haven't bought a BB, still using the one that came with the Viscount.
So you think if a Shimano one doesn't go on, then a Campag one is unlikely to as well?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You're going to have to be more specific. When you say 'one' are you referring to the BB or the chainset? It isn't clear from your post.

Hypocrisy is only a bad thing in other people.

urbanfatboy · June 2007

by 'one' I mean chainset. The BB will be difficult to replace as it is pressed, not threaded.

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Elaborate a bit more, what are you refering to when you mention 'pressed'? In any event all brackets should come out and nearly all frames have a threaded BB shell that will accept a threaded BB cup.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

by 'one' I mean chainset. The BB will be difficult to replace as it is pressed, not threaded.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

Here's some pictures of the bottom bracket.

http://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html

And there is this additional information which I can do nothing with.

The original spindle measures 123mm long.
The square-tapered ends, measure 12.7mm wide at tip,
13.6mm wide at shoulder, and 15.5mm long from tip to shoulder.
The bearings are 6003, measuring 35mm OD x 17mm ID x 10mm Thick

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Just the information needed, as I mentioned earlier when you said it wouldn't fit, you " must have an unusual BB " and indeed it is vary, even back then it would have been unusual, unlikely that you will be able to get one from your local bike shop, suggest google 'Phil Woods', some one may have one! Ebay perhaps.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

Here's some pictures of the bottom bracket.

http://bikecult.com/works/parts/bbViscount.html

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

very rare? Does that mean That neither campag nor shimano nor anyone elses crankset will fit the axle? I'm reluctant to spend big money on it, it was meant to be a sub œ100 novelty item.

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Wouldn't worry about that information so much, you are using a Shimano 600 chainset and that data relates more to that.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

And there is this additional information which I can do nothing with.

The original spindle measures 123mm long.
The square-tapered ends, measure 12.7mm wide at tip,
13.6mm wide at shoulder, and 15.5mm long from tip to shoulder.
The bearings are 6003, measuring 35mm OD x 17mm ID x 10mm Thick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by that last response. The data relates to the axle on the current bottom bracket. I'mm looking for a standard(ish) crankset that will fit it.

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Very rare as in you will have to hunt around for one yes, there will be specialists who will cater for that kind niche market, there are some pages linked to that information about the Viscount, contact them would be my suggestion

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

very rare? Does that mean That neither campag nor shimano nor anyone elses crankset will fit the axle? I'm reluctant to spend big money on it, it was meant to be a sub œ100 novelty item.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

hey, just noticed your location! I used to live in Carshalton, in the first house next to the Greyhound pub.

hmm, might just get the file out.

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

The cottage style ones by the car park? I like those as they seem to have a cellar, always wanted a cellar to make into my bike workshop [8D]

Anyway back to your bike, I had read it that you bought a new (to you) chainset and wanted to fit it, now I know what you have got then you appear to have a bit of a dilema, finding a BB to fit that bike will not be easy, neither will finding a chainset to fit that BB, which is why I would suggest contacting the enthusiasts via that page you linked to, hopefully they will have a box tucked away somewhere...

Paul_Smith, 43, Carshalton 1963-1988, Wallinton since 1988, Ex Carshalton High School for boys and Pearson Cycles in Sutton 1986-2001[;)][8D][:D]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

hey, just noticed your location! I used to live in Carshalton, in the first house next to the Greyhound pub.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

urbanfatboy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paul_Smith SRCC

The three cottage style story ones or the Church side? Always liked those, a bit near the main road but they have a cellar, always wanted one to make into my bike workshop [8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The ones on the Sutton side of the Pub, nearer the petrol station and the roundabout (Pound Street?) They did have cellars, some converted.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Anyway back to your bike, I had read it that you bought a new (to you) chainset and wanted to fit it, now I know what you have got then you appear to have a bit of a dilema, finding a BB to fit that bike will not be easy, neither will finding a chainset to fit that BB, which is why I would suggest contacting the enthusiasts via that page you linked to, hopefully they will have a box tucked away somewhere...

Paul_Smith, 43, Carshalton 1963-1988, Wallinton since 1988, Ex Carshalton High School for boys and Pearson Cycles in Sutton 1986-2001[;)][8D][:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ok, Thanks for that. I'll try them

Cheers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

hey, just noticed your location! I used to live in Carshalton, in the first house next to the Greyhound pub.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica
[/quote]

paul_smith_srcc · June 2007

Yes that was the ones I was thinking about, Garage now gone and Greyhound still owned by 'Youngs' much larger now though as it is a Hotel at the back where the Redmon cc had there Clubroom, still serves superb Bear and pub section remains as you remember it [:D].

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paul_Smith SRCC

The three cottage style story ones or the Church side? Always liked those, a bit near the main road but they have a cellar, always wanted one to make into my bike workshop [8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The ones on the Sutton side of the Pub, nearer the petrol station and the roundabout (Pound Street?) They did have cellars, some converted.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Anyway back to your bike, I had read it that you bought a new (to you) chainset and wanted to fit it, now I know what you have got then you appear to have a bit of a dilema, finding a BB to fit that bike will not be easy, neither will finding a chainset to fit that BB, which is why I would suggest contacting the enthusiasts via that page you linked to, hopefully they will have a box tucked away somewhere...

Paul_Smith, 43, Carshalton 1963-1988, Wallinton since 1988, Ex Carshalton High School for boys and Pearson Cycles in Sutton 1986-2001[;)][8D][:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ok, Thanks for that. I'll try them

Cheers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by urbanfatboy

hey, just noticed your location! I used to live in Carshalton, in the first house next to the Greyhound pub.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[/quote]

Surrey Road CC, articles of my tours; Lejog, North Sea to the Alps, English Channel to the Med', 'End to End' Ireland,London to Paris,Corsica

Square Taper BB

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