Loathsome Brown's 'doublethink' on education

spire · June 2007

Key point on Education from the Cheshire cat's acceptance speech:

Businesses, universities, colleges and the voluntary sector will be brought together to improve education, he said.

"Every secondary school - trusts, specialists or academies - linked to a business, every school linked to a college or university.

"Step by step we will raise investment in state school pupils - now œ5,500 per pupil - to today's levels for private school pupils: œ8,000 a year."

So why not just hand the whole thing over to private schools as their track record is somewhat better than government's?

Answer, of course, is that meddling Socialists need to control education to meet their social engineering agenda.

Unknown · June 2007

Of course, if you're going to match funding, you could go the whole hog and introduce a voucher scheme and effectively merge the state and private sector. This would enable Labour politicians to send their children to private schools with a clear conscience.

simoncp · June 2007

So Labour are going to spend more and more of cash on education. That is hardly news. Labour always spend more and more of our cash on everything.

As usual, all the extra cash will be wasted.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

So Labour are going to spend more and more of cash on education. That is hardly news. Labour always spend more and more of our cash on everything.

As usual, all the extra cash will be wasted.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not necessarily, it tends to result in higher salaries for Labour voters.

spire · June 2007

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

(This is also one of the reasons redcogs and gillan are so anti-grammar schools!)

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, it would mean more work for teachers, some 70% of whom vote Labour.

ankev1 · June 2007

We all know that the money will largely, if not wholly, be wasted, the NHS providing the perfect example for this. Perhaps the right idea would be to run all schools on the lines of the established public schools. It might work so long as no businesses were allowed to get involved as they would simply seek to make money. The key thing would be to dismantle education-associated government bureaucracy to ensure that less cash was swallowed up in nugatory admin.

Noodley · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.
(This is also one of the reasons redcogs and gillan are so anti-grammar schools!)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

not if ethics and morality were taught [;)]

redcogs · June 2007

Mugatory? Graet idea ankev - But it has to be a prosperous one without legal connections - to make it worth the risk. Whas spire's address?

please look up to the stars.. ***

willski · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

(This is also one of the reasons redcogs and gillan are so anti-grammar schools!)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK..... so why is David Cameron anti-grammar schools?

___________________________________________________________________

If I had a baby elephant, I'd write a witty sig line about it - if I had any wit.

Pizzaman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, it would mean more work for teachers, some 70% of whom vote Labour.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

More work for teachers? Teachers don't want more work! At the moment, as well as our teaching duties (which we get paid for), we are also babystitters, behavioural pychologists, experts in conflict resolution and bureaucrats. We don't get extra money for this, because if we did, our salaries would bankrupt the Exchequer.

Oh I forgot, we are solely responsible for children's morals, parent behaviour, stopping children living on Fried chicken... and I believe that Alan Johnson will soon require us to teach children how to hold a knife and fork and comport themselves properly at the dinner table. I am not joking.

One thing I will say for Tony Blair, is that he was probably the first PM since the 1950s to realise that maybe education is a bit important, and that to get decent teachers you might have to pay them fairly.

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by willski

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

(This is also one of the reasons redcogs and gillan are so anti-grammar schools!)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK..... so why is David Cameron anti-grammar schools?

___________________________________________________________________

If I had a baby elephant, I'd write a witty sig line about it - if I had any wit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't believe he is - he's playing to the gallery at the moment. Disappointing.

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pizzaman

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, it would mean more work for teachers, some 70% of whom vote Labour.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

More work for teachers? Teachers don't want more work! At the moment, as well as our teaching duties (which we get paid for), we are also babystitters, behavioural pychologists, experts in conflict resolution and bureaucrats. We don't get extra money for this, because if we did, our salaries would bankrupt the Exchequer.

Oh I forgot, we are solely responsible for children's morals, parent behaviour, stopping children living on Fried chicken...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I see all the things you list as part and parcel of teaching. What do you want to do just read out from a book, set some exercises and go home?

redcogs · June 2007

Tories who support grammar schools are "delusional".

i don't think Cameron is a liar.

please look up to the stars.. ***

spire · June 2007

redcogs

What are you so keen to keep the working class in their place?

Let the brightest blossum and grow.

Of course, the trouble with this is that every successful working class person is lost from your fold.

Ah yes, that's why you want to keep them down!

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

redcogs

What are you so keen to keep the working class in their place?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So it can be believed that they are kept down by the evil capitalist bosses.

willski · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by willski

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

(This is also one of the reasons redcogs and gillan are so anti-grammar schools!)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK..... so why is David Cameron anti-grammar schools?

___________________________________________________________________

If I had a baby elephant, I'd write a witty sig line about it - if I had any wit.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't believe he is - he's playing to the gallery at the moment. Disappointing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh I see. So he's lying then?

____________________________________________________________________

If I had a baby elephant, I'd write a witty sig line about it - if I had any wit.

redcogs · June 2007

Cameron seems to be an exceptionally good judge of character and quite without the usual Tory predisposition towards economy of truth.

Please spell dillusional.

please look up to the stars.. ***

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by willski

Oh I see. So he's lying then?

____________________________________________________________________

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He's wooing.

Even seems to be giving redcogs a bit of a flutter![:0][:D]

Pizzaman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pizzaman

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

Of course, deep down, Labour is terrified of genuinely raising educational standards - an educated working-class wouldn't know their place and would probably vote Tory.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, it would mean more work for teachers, some 70% of whom vote Labour.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

More work for teachers? Teachers don't want more work! At the moment, as well as our teaching duties (which we get paid for), we are also babystitters, behavioural pychologists, experts in conflict resolution and bureaucrats. We don't get extra money for this, because if we did, our salaries would bankrupt the Exchequer.

Oh I forgot, we are solely responsible for children's morals, parent behaviour, stopping children living on Fried chicken...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I see all the things you list as part and parcel of teaching. What do you want to do just read out from a book, set some exercises and go home?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Um, no... if I wanted to do that I wouldn't have become a teacher. I am saying that inventing headline grabbing initiatives every other week merely pulls teachers away from what they are there to do, and gives them less time to focus on the vital areas of teaching children to read, write and interact positively with the world around them.

I believe that it has become an easy way out to say that absolute responsibility over the 'homelife' facets of growing up should fall at the feet of teachers. If you could only know how many times I have seen parents come into school fully believing that any behavioural problems that their offspring are displaying are the school's problem, and responsibility to sort out, you would be amazed.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by willski

Oh I see. So he's lying then?

____________________________________________________________________

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He's wooing.

Even seems to be giving redcogs a bit of a flutter![:0][:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The lefties have a deep down respect for someone they sense is posh. [;)][;)]

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

The lefties have a deep down respect for someone they sense is posh. [;)][;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And they loathe jumped-up successful persons formerly working-class!
(Hence redcogs' preference for Eton Cameron over council house Davis in the leadership contest.)

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

The lefties have a deep down respect for someone they sense is posh. [;)][;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And they loathe jumped-up successful persons formerly working-class!
(Hence redcogs' preference for Eton Cameron over council house Davis in the leadership contest.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, you could imagine redders becoming Cameron's butler, but he'd never do it for Davis. [;)]

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire
And they loathe jumped-up successful persons formerly working-class!
(Hence redcogs' preference for Eton Cameron over council house Davis in the leadership contest.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think you'll find redcogs' only real preference in this contest was to see which one he'd put up against the wall first...

Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
That I got no cerebellum
Gonna get my Ph.D.
I'm a teenage lobotomy

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

Yes, you could imagine redders becoming Cameron's butler, but he'd never do it for Davis. [;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Quite. He'd like Davis down the pit doing a job befitting his working class roots.

gillan1969 · June 2007

spire

if only the tories woud have some moral and ethical consistency

the fact is selective education conveys advantages to some at the expense of others...those at private schools (or selective schools) are in effect subsidised goods...gaining an unfair edge in the market place

if it were a market place the office of fair trading would have closed it down long ago

you seem to think that beacuse a few people gain then this is the the benefit of the whole...how so??

once again the rich screwing everyone over to protect their own, (rather thick it would appear) offspring

subsidy junkies

spire...the arthur scargill of the classroom

www.squadraporcini.com

spire · June 2007

gillan

We've drifted a bit off topic. Did you actually read the OP?

What I'm asking is why doesn't Brown give the whole job of education to the private sector if he's prepared to spend the same amount per head?

No arguments from you about unfairness then.

Of course the Socialists will never take their sticky fingers out of the education pie - they can't resist the social control aspect (and, as previously mentioned, they are terrified of an independently educated working class who must KNOW THEIR PLACE!).

gillan1969 · June 2007

eh....because the private sector is very good at many things but education is not one of them

re off topic

yes you strayed to linking th anti private/selective school systyem to being an attempt to 'gerrymander' if you like

as i say this i find rich from a self intersst group comprising...eh....the landed gentry and there minions and aspirants

you i would construe as an aspirant[:)]

www.squadraporcini.com

Regulator · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

Cameron seems to be an exceptionally good judge of character and quite without the usual Tory predisposition towards economy of truth.

Please spell dillusional.

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think you'll find it's spelt 'delusional'... [;)]

___________________________
Bugger elephants - capabari are cuter!

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gillan1969

eh....because the private sector is very good at many things but education is not one of them

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?]

But you're always banging on about the unfair advantages privately educated people enjoy...

...perplexed.

gillan1969 · June 2007

spire

should have been more specific for your hams......oh stop there[:)][:)]

sorry was refering to allowing the private sector to involve itself in providing education per se...I'm with adam smith on what the private serctor should and should not do and education is definatley a not

of course if you have a small section of the market being run privately its not really a good indication of its real benefit or efficiency as its intake is not representative

they coach pupils to pass exams rather than educate them in a wider sense, they select their own pupils, they create a 'network' of ex-pupils who work for each others advantage etc etc etc

doesn't really provide us with the basis for working out its efficiency does it

www.squadraporcini.com

Loathsome Brown's 'doublethink' on education

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