Caveat Emptor - 2005 Dawes Ultra Galaxy from Evans

Houlie · June 2007

I have followed the archive message thread, entitled 'Have I been diddled?' The gist of the thread seems to suggest that Evans Cycles are downgrading their supply of old 'new stock' Dawes Ultra Galaxy 2005 models by fitting them with poorer quality items, in particular, by fitting Rigida Nova 32 hole rims instead of Mavic 36 hole rims.

I followed this thread because I am currently buying such a beast from Evans. Yesterday, the bike mechanic at Evans phoned me when the bike was being unpacked and we had a chat about the specification. The mechanic informed me that the rims were indeed, Rigida 32 hole jobbies, which surprised him. I asked him to ring Dawes to see if he could get the Mavic 36h rims, as specified in the Dawes advert. About an hour later, I was phoned again. The message was 'The man from Dawes, he say NO'

Undeterred by this setback, I decided to send an e-mail to Dawes outlining my position and that I was unhappy with the substitution of 32h rims for 36h rims. This is the reply I got from Peter Crowley at Dawes;

'As I have not seen the bike in question I can not say with complete accuracy but for a small period of the 2005 year the Ultra Galaxy was fitted with the Rigida rim and so the bike may well be correct to specification and Dawes will certainly not upgrade this bike which I'm sure is being sold at a discounted cost. Dawes really do listen to the touring market and I understand the comments about the rims and this is why later models have upgraded components such as strong WTB rims, brooks saddles and Tubus carriers. I would suggest that if you are not happy with this specific bike you should look at a 2007 model.'

Regards

Dawes Cycles

From my perspective, it looks like Dawes were advertising one thing;

Reynolds 853 Tig welded compact frame
Butted CroMoly fork
Shimano 105 triple chainset
Shimano Tiagra front / XT rear derailleurs
Shimano 105 STI shifters
Avid Shorty 4 brakes with Shimano 105 levers
Shimano XT hubs
Mavic T221 rims
Schwalbe Marathon Slick tyres
ITM Kero III bar
ITM forged stem
Selle San Marco Rolls saddle

But selling something else;

Shimano LX hubs
Rigida Nova rims
Continental Country tyres
Viper saddle

Then hiding behind the 'weasel phrase';
Please note that specifications are subject to change by the supplier without prior notice.

I suspect that Dawes made a serious error when they re-specced the 2005 Ultra Galaxy with lower quality hubs, rims, spokes and tyres. They got landed with a shed full of bikes that were not wanted by serious tourists. My guess is that the bargains Evans have got are a stockpile of unsellable machines, being knocked out at cost price to break even.

Having said all of that, the bike is for my wife, who is unlikely to do any expedition style tours. So, we have taken the plunge and gone for the 2005 old stock model. It is being bought on the 'Ride to Work' scheme, so should be a real bargain, even if it does eventually need 36h hubs and rims.

I think this exonerates Evans from any dodgy deals, as were suggested in the original article. In my opinion, the bad guys in this case are Dawes who have changed specification in a model run and are now suffering the consequences.

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England

Unknown · June 2007

wonderful first post

_________________________________
Trip
www.pedalpatagonia.co.uk

2 Bikes
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/imjibi/Bikes

Houlie · June 2007

Thank you; it took quite a long time to write !;0)

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England

Alans · June 2007

Some few years ago I bought a Dawes tandem which was different in the flesh than the advertised spec.
At my instigation my dealer took issue with Dawes who insrtructed the dealer to fit components,at their cost,to bring the machine upto advertised spec.
All done & sorted on same day as purchase[:D]

may the Dawes be with you

acorn_user · June 2007

It doesn't make them bad guys. It just means that the 2005 model has different specs to the 2007. I do agree that 36 spoke wheels are a better bet. Rigida Nova's are not expensive rims either. They would have been better off with Rigida Sputnik rims.

Houlie · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by acorn_user

It doesn't make them bad guys. It just means that the 2005 model has different specs to the 2007. I do agree that 36 spoke wheels are a better bet. Rigida Nova's are not expensive rims either. They would have been better off with Rigida Sputnik rims.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My point is that the 2005 model has an advertised spec (different from the 2007 spec), which has been replaced by a Dawes imposed spec, and, the new spec is markedly inferior when compared to the original spec. I would normally expect a replacement specification to be at least the same as, if not better than, the original; this is patently not the case.

When I asked Dawes about bringing the machine back to the specification they originally advertised and I expected, I was given the above reply. I was astonished by Mr Crowley seeking to justify the actions of the company (in refusing to replace the wheels) by stating that I was getting the machine at a discounted price! Would Mr Crowley expect to pay the full book price for a 'new' car if it was two year old model? I think not! Would he then feel 'hard done by' if he ordered the car, based on the manufacturers advertised description but it came (unannounced) fitted out to a lower specification? I think he would.

I was also intrigued by Mr Crowley's assertion;
'Dawes really do listen to the touring market ...'
It appears to me that Dawes must had suffered a temporary hearing or memory loss when they replaced the spec for the 2005 Ultra Galaxy; it started with a 36h rim, then went to a 32h rim, then went back to a 36h rim!

Dawes have been in the touring bike market for a very long time. They must realise by now the top end Dawes tourer has a minimum expected specification and that specification is pretty high quality. To my ears, Mr Crowley's reply sounded rather hollow and did not enhance the reputation of Dawes as a company that is greatly interested in their customers, unless they are paying full whack for this years model.

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England

peterbr · June 2007

Being "conned aside". You have to worry about the future and the competence of the management that saw fit to ship a touring bike, competing at the relative high-end with 32h wheels.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.

strofiwimple · June 2007

Being very inexperienced regarding specifications and quality of components i bought one of the 2005 models after looking at threads on this site saying that the galaxy was a decent bike "at the price"

I have used the bike to commute regularly and have done a couple of four day tours with fairly laden rear panniers over some quite rough tracks and i havent had a problem so far.

I would be gratful for any advice as to problems i might come up against as i will be doing more touring this summer and any advice on upgrading the wheels etc and probable costs.
I must admit to feeling foolish and cheated now- not nice at all.

forever on the magic roundabout

vernonlevy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by strofiwimple

Being very inexperienced regarding specifications and quality of components i bought one of the 2005 models after looking at threads on this site saying that the galaxy was a decent bike "at the price"

I have used the bike to commute regularly and have done a couple of four day tours with fairly laden rear panniers over some quite rough tracks and i havent had a problem so far.

I would be gratful for any advice as to problems i might come up against as i will be doing more touring this summer and any advice on upgrading the wheels etc and probable costs.
I must admit to feeling foolish and cheated now- not nice at all.

forever on the magic roundabout
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You have probably got nothing to worry about. It is a received wisdom that 36 hole wheels are *the* ones to have fitted to a touring bike. 32 hole wheels are perfectly adequate for the rider of average weight whatever that might be.

There is no reason to feel cheated - the bike is doing its intended job as you yourself has admitted. It's unlikely that you will encounter any problems. The 2005 spec bike no matter what the spec is/was of the one in your possession is/was a bargain.

You are probably feeling aggrieved because you have now been led to believe that you should have been given something better for your money.

Your wheels are likely to have a full and active life and you can fit 36 spoked ones when the 32 spoked ones wear out or now if it makes you feel better.

FWIW, I've toured and Audaxed extensively with 32 and 36 spoked wheels and have had more problems with a 36 hole wheel than any of my 26 spoked wheels. I weigh in at 21 stones, been as high as 24 stones and have carried a generously filled set of four pannier bags on 18 day tours. I suffered a rim failure with a 36 spoked wheel and replaced it with a 26 spoked one to enable me to continue on one of my tours.

You've not been robbed or cheated. You've still got a decent bike. Don't let your enjoyment of it be lessened by a 'what might have been' moment.

Houlie · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by strofiwimple

I would be gratful for any advice as to problems i might come up against as i will be doing more touring this summer and any advice on upgrading the wheels etc and probable costs.
I must admit to feeling foolish and cheated now- not nice at all.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Strofiwimple,

Don't feel foolish and too cheated; you have got a lot of bike for not much money. However, you must be aware that you could encounter problems that ought not occur on a 'new' Ultra Galaxy.

My advice, for what it is worth, is that you may wish to invest in a spoke key (Evans do one - the Pedros at œ6.99) and some spare spokes (again, vist Evans or your local bike shop). The spare spokes should be taped securely to one of the rear chain stays. That way, if you do pull or snap a spoke in the middle of nowhere at midnight in the rain (it never happens outside an LBS at 9 a.m.) you can do something about it. You may wish to acquire an old bicycle wheel from your local refuse disposal site to practise on first.

From experience, nearly every snapped spoke I have suffered has been on the back wheel, usually on the free-wheel side. They have always happened whilst going home from work in the evening, usually about one third of the way into the journey, and after the last downhill section before I start climbimg again. You can wobble a fair way with one snapped spoke, but they are a bit like a row of dominoes; when one goes, the rest will follow!

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England

Crispin Bennett · June 2007

32h is not enough for a touring bike back wheel.
It's your Archilles heel, as it were.

Flog the back wheel on e-bay and treat yourself to a handbuilt 40-spoke or tandem backwheel. Ooh - you could go for 4-cross, double-butted spokes and everything!

32h if fine for the front and touring bikes used to be 32/40 until the manufacturers decided to standardise rims for us.

www.stirlingcycling.org.uk

solocp · June 2007

The only issue appears to be the wheels/hubs and saddle. The saddle is a small issue and for the œ500 price difference I think I'd just fit a Brooks and wear the cost or try for an upgrade and pay the difference. The wheels fitted aren't bad, and LX hubs are very good, but for heavily loaded touring I'd go for 36 spokes. Again I'd look to Evans to change the wheel package to 36 spoke wheels on LX hubs. Having said that a well built 32 spoke wheel is better than a poorly built 36 spoke wheel. The bike looks good value as it comes and if I'd bought one I wouldn't be losing any sleep about having been conned.

Nigeyy · June 2007

So, I'm unsure:

i. is the bike advertized by Evans at a different spec?
ii. or is the bike advertized by Evans with an accurate spec but not the same spec as advertized by Dawes?

It seems to me that Evans is responsible for an accurate set of specs as they are selling the bike -regardless if they or Dawes swap parts or not. If the spec is not as advertized by the the seller (i.e. Evans) it seems to me that Evans is at fault here. From your post, it seems like you knew the bike had 32 hole rims before purchasing it, so I really don't see why you are upset about it. If you wanted 36h rims, why didn't you purchase a Galaxy with 36h rims from elsewhere? Possibly because Evans was selling them at a cheaper price (and the the reason why they are at a cheaper price...?)

And I really can't see why Dawes has any responsibility to upgrade a bike sold to you by Evans (unless there is a fault or failure, and even then, sometimes that is better handled by the seller). It seems the specs were transparent enough, you had a choice of either purchasing the bike or not (purchasing a similar bike that had the specs you wanted elsewhere).

When I buy a bike, I don't just go on the name, but what the bike actually is and what the components are. If I can't see the bike in person to see exactly what I'm getting, I definitely ask for a listing -if there isn't one -before I go forward (I did just buy a bike online).

Perhaps I missed something in this discussion?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Houlie

I have followed the archive message thread, entitled 'Have I been diddled?' The gist of the thread seems to suggest that Evans Cycles are downgrading their supply of old 'new stock' Dawes Ultra Galaxy 2005 models by fitting them with poorer quality items, in particular, by fitting Rigida Nova 32 hole rims instead of Mavic 36 hole rims.

I followed this thread because I am currently buying such a beast from Evans. Yesterday, the bike mechanic at Evans phoned me when the bike was being unpacked and we had a chat about the specification. The mechanic informed me that the rims were indeed, Rigida 32 hole jobbies, which surprised him. I asked him to ring Dawes to see if he could get the Mavic 36h rims, as specified in the Dawes advert. About an hour later, I was phoned again. The message was 'The man from Dawes, he say NO'

Undeterred by this setback, I decided to send an e-mail to Dawes outlining my position and that I was unhappy with the substitution of 32h rims for 36h rims. This is the reply I got from Peter Crowley at Dawes;

'As I have not seen the bike in question I can not say with complete accuracy but for a small period of the 2005 year the Ultra Galaxy was fitted with the Rigida rim and so the bike may well be correct to specification and Dawes will certainly not upgrade this bike which I'm sure is being sold at a discounted cost. Dawes really do listen to the touring market and I understand the comments about the rims and this is why later models have upgraded components such as strong WTB rims, brooks saddles and Tubus carriers. I would suggest that if you are not happy with this specific bike you should look at a 2007 model.'

Regards

Dawes Cycles

From my perspective, it looks like Dawes were advertising one thing;

Reynolds 853 Tig welded compact frame
Butted CroMoly fork
Shimano 105 triple chainset
Shimano Tiagra front / XT rear derailleurs
Shimano 105 STI shifters
Avid Shorty 4 brakes with Shimano 105 levers
Shimano XT hubs
Mavic T221 rims
Schwalbe Marathon Slick tyres
ITM Kero III bar
ITM forged stem
Selle San Marco Rolls saddle

But selling something else;

Shimano LX hubs
Rigida Nova rims
Continental Country tyres
Viper saddle

Then hiding behind the 'weasel phrase';
Please note that specifications are subject to change by the supplier without prior notice.

I suspect that Dawes made a serious error when they re-specced the 2005 Ultra Galaxy with lower quality hubs, rims, spokes and tyres. They got landed with a shed full of bikes that were not wanted by serious tourists. My guess is that the bargains Evans have got are a stockpile of unsellable machines, being knocked out at cost price to break even.

Having said all of that, the bike is for my wife, who is unlikely to do any expedition style tours. So, we have taken the plunge and gone for the 2005 old stock model. It is being bought on the 'Ride to Work' scheme, so should be a real bargain, even if it does eventually need 36h hubs and rims.

I think this exonerates Evans from any dodgy deals, as were suggested in the original article. In my opinion, the bad guys in this case are Dawes who have changed specification in a model run and are now suffering the consequences.

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fight Cystic Fibrosis: do something. http://www.cycleforhaylee.org http://www.cff.org

sjcpcp · June 2007

I wouldn't be very happy if my bike had been down-specced like this. 36 spokes on an XT hub is seen as the benchmark for touring wheels and I wouldn't be happy doing a 2 week camping tour with only 32 spokes on the back wheel.

I also don't think the wheel would be easy to sell-on. 700c wheels with a 135mm rear axle is a peculiar size that only tends to be used on British Touring Bikes, so anyone who has a touring bike is unlikely to want to install a weaker wheel.

I'm suprised Dawes were willing to devalue their brand by installing an inappropriate rear wheel. Dawes racing bikes and MTB's aren't anything special, and they are usually overshadowed by the bigger brands, but they are famous for their touring bikes and I would have thought they want to maintain their good reputation in this area.

They've made a similar change this year, in that they've removed the triple chainset from the Audax bike and fitted a compact instead. Most high mileage audax riders would probably want a triple, so it's a strange change to make.

I've looked on the Evans website and they are listing the bike with the incorrect specification. They've tried to cover themselves by saying the specification is subject to change, but I wouldn't say changing from 36 spokes to 32 spokes on a touring bike is a 'reasonable' change and Evans should make the buyer aware of this when they accept the order.

Chris James · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nigeyy

So, I'm unsure:

i. is the bike advertized by Evans at a different spec?
ii. or is the bike advertized by Evans with an accurate spec but not the same spec as advertized by Dawes? etc
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I must admit that I can't see why Dawes are at fault here. By the sound of it they made a duff decision to firt inferior (for touring) wheels on an old model and were left with excess stock.

They then sell this old stock to Evans (for presumably a lot less than they can sell the current Ultra Galaxy to Evans). Evans then sell the bike on again at a large discount.

Evans have advertised the spec, if they have it wrong then it is they who are at fault. You can then choose to buy or not.

To the person worried that they may have been cheated then they could buy a brand new pair of XT hubbed wheel hand built with Rigida Sputnik rims for œ127 from Spa Cycles. Given that I understand that the bike was discounted by much more than this figure then you can still end up quids in, and have a spare set of wheels!

[/quote]

Chris James · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sjcp
[br ... they've removed the triple chainset from the Audax bike and fitted a compact instead. Most high mileage audax riders would probably want a triple, so it's a strange change to make.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree, I can't work out why they did that. I can see why they might have wanted to split the model to introduce a budget version but don't know why neither of the models have triples?

peterbr · June 2007

"700c wheels with a 135mm rear axle is a peculiar size that only tends to be used on British Touring Bikes"

- no. Pretty much every city/hydrid use this. Should be easy to sell a pair to someone who trashed their commuter wheels.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Europe's nations should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation"
Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU.

sjcpcp · June 2007

Some hybrids do use this wheel specification, but some use a 130mm rear axle and most city bikes are based on mountain bikes and therefore use 26 inch rims.

Houlie · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nigeyy

So, I'm unsure:

i. is the bike advertized by Evans at a different spec?
ii. or is the bike advertized by Evans with an accurate spec but not the same spec as advertized by Dawes?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My understanding is thus;
Evans have advertised the original spec, as set by Dawes. Somewhere in the model run, Dawes have changed the spec. Evans have continued with the original spec in the advert. When you order a 2005 Ultra from Evans, you might get a lucky bag or an unlucky bag, as the case may be (lucky bag = original spec unlucky bag = revised spec). You don't know what you will get until the box is opened. In my case, I got an unlucky bag.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

It seems to me that Evans is responsible for an accurate set of specs as they are selling the bike -regardless if they or Dawes swap parts or not. If the spec is not as advertized by the the seller (i.e. Evans) it seems to me that Evans is at fault here. From your post, it seems like you knew the bike had 32 hole rims before purchasing it, so I really don't see why you are upset about it. If you wanted 36h rims, why didn't you purchase a Galaxy with 36h rims from elsewhere? Possibly because Evans was selling them at a cheaper price (and the the reason why they are at a cheaper price...?) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When I ordered the bike from Evans, I thought I was getting a bike that conformed to the spec as posted on their website and as featured in the photograph. I assume these details were provided by Dawes in their original advertising literature. I also assumed that any revised specification would contain items of a similar nature and there would not be a radical departure from the original spec. I accept that I have made a couple of assumptions here. I think they are reasonable assumptions to make. You may differ in opinion.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
And I really can't see why Dawes has any responsibility to upgrade a bike sold to you by Evans (unless there is a fault or failure, and even then, sometimes that is better handled by the seller). It seems the specs were transparent enough, you had a choice of either purchasing the bike or not (purchasing a similar bike that had the specs you wanted elsewhere). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The spec was NOT transparent. It differed significantly from the product that was delivered. In my opinion, Dawes has a responsibility to provide the supplier (Evans) with a product that meets the specification they gave to Evans. They cannot simply send a bike in a box that might, or might not, come to the same specification. If the remaining 2005 stock is all Rigida/LX 32h wheels, then Evans have a duty to explain this in their advert. I have contacted Evans separately on this matter and await their response.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When I buy a bike, I don't just go on the name, but what the bike actually is and what the components are. If I can't see the bike in person to see exactly what I'm getting, I definitely ask for a listing -if there isn't one -before I go forward (I did just buy a bike online)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree with you on this. I eventually went ahead with the purchase with my eyes wide open - I have accepted the lower spec and will get on with it. But this was only achieved by me making lots of enquiries with interested parties, both after I spoke to the mechanic who opened the box to see what it contained and before I committed myself to paying for the machine. I only made the enquiries after reading the 'Have I been diddled?' thread. Had I not read that thread and ordered the bike on the strength of the advert, I would be beating a path to my local trading standards office.

In this case, I know what I have bought, unlike strofiwimple, who bought on the strength of the advert and now discovers that what was bought, was not what was advertised. I fail to accept that buying a bike is a lottery or lucky dip - the purchaser should get what is written on the wrapper, not what somebody else decides to put in it. Especially if that something is of less value or lower quality than the original product.

With ref to the blameworthiness angle, in my opinion Dawes must shoulder most of the repsonsibility; they changed the spec to an inferior quality and have refused to do anything about it when challenged. Evans do not escape unscathed; now they know there is a problem, I feel they must reflect that in their description of the product. When that happens, we consumers can make an informed decision based on accurate information without having to do our own enquiries.

The 'lucky dip' form of trading should have died many years ago with the introduction of the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979' and the 'Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regs 2002'

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England

Chris James · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Houlie
If the remaining 2005 stock is all Rigida/LX 32h wheels, then Evans have a duty to explain this in their advert. I have contacted Evans separately on this matter and await their response.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think this is the nub of the issue. If the spec is exactly the same as the 2007 spec though, then why would they sell it as 2005 stock?

Your comparison with old cars is a bit wrong as car number plates depend not on when they are built but when they are registered. A 'new' car may have been sitting in a car park at a port for 6 months. Likewise, since bikes haveno registration process, if the 2005 spec was identical to the 2007 spec then they would sell it as a 2007 model - for œ500 more! Which, I suppose, is the point the bloke at Dawes was trying to make.

For œ800 the bike is still a great deal. How much the 853 frame alone cost to buy - œ500 to œ600? As I said before, even if you were to buy a new set of extra wheels you are still almost œ400 better off than buying the 2007 model.

newbiecp · June 2007

I was burnt in a similar fashion with a 2005 Audax that I bought from the cycle shop up at Wombwell - the spec was different and lower to the one on the Dawes website and as far as I am aware it was the same season model. As above, different rims and a Viper saddle rather than a rolls. I think there were some other changes too. It was still a good price for a 631 frame and 105 (mainly) kit, but I will not bother with another Dawes again as I won't trust their advertised spec.

for a forum with an old fashioned Classified section, go here [:)]

smithers · June 2007

I don't know what planet Dawes were on when they did the photo shoot for the advert in this month's C+ - Look at the position of the saddle in relation to the bars on their "Audax Sport" model - looks highly comfortable for all day riding [:0]

I love my '05 Audax but I have to say that despite it being the largest size available they had cut the steerer too short for the type of bike it is mean't to be and I've had to fit an adjustable stem (which is fine). I think they did something different on next years model to alleviate the problem.

Their sporty range has all been dumbed down and lost Carbon forks and half decent groupsets, looks like a big cost saving exercise [V]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge will overcome!

Nigeyy · June 2007

To me it's simple then; Evans are at fault. They're trying to sell something claiming it's not (i.e. using Dawes 2007 specs for a 2005 bike?). Since they obviously take a cut (why else would they sell an item) they also have a responsibility to inform the buyer of what they are buying. It appears to me they failed there. Arguably components make up 50% of a bicycle, so I don't think this is trivial.

Even assuming if Dawes suddenly started fobbing off Evans halfway through flogging the bikes to them, I still think it's up to Evans to make right to the consumer (Evans separately then has to take this up with Dawes, and not let it slide down to the consumer, again, it's part of the responsibility of being a retailer IMHO). Just reading between the lines here though, I have a feeling Evans knew all along -deep discounting often doesn't come without a price or reason.

I definitely agree that Dawes should be fulfilling the specs provided to Evans (and this of course is assuming they provided 2007-like specs for 2005 bikes, which may not be true anyway, we just don't know). Regardless to me however, it's still the responsibility of Evans to stand by what they advertize, and to make sure they are selling what they Dawes claim they gave them.

I most completely understand your feelings if you bought the bike and it did not have the specs as *advertized by Evans or the seller* -but still, I fail to see how Dawes is at fault here. They manufactured a bike, they built it with certain components, and then someone else tries to sell it advertizing different components or from a different bicycle model year? If this is the case, all the blame and shame surely lies squarely on Evans then!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Houlie

My understanding is thus; Evans have advertised the original spec, as set by Dawes. Somewhere in the model run, Dawes have changed the spec. Evans have continued with the original spec in the advert.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fight Cystic Fibrosis: do something. http://www.cycleforhaylee.org http://www.cff.org

Chris James · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by newbie

I was burnt in a similar fashion with a 2005 Audax that I bought from the cycle shop up at Wombwell - the spec was different and lower to the one on the Dawes website and as far as I am aware it was the same season model. As above, different rims and a Viper saddle rather than a rolls. I think there were some other changes too. It was still a good price for a 631 frame and 105 (mainly) kit, but I will not bother with another Dawes again as I won't trust their advertised spec.

for a forum with an old fashioned Classified section, go here [:)]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To be fair ro dawes, my Audax 06 was advertised with 9 speed 105 but came with 10 speed so they do spec up as well as down.

Houlie · June 2007

It looks like my e-mail to Evans has already elicited a response on their website. I have just checked it and saw the following;

Reynolds 853 Tig welded compact frame
Butted CroMoly fork
Shimano 105 triple chainset
Shimano Tiagra front / XT rear derailleurs
Shimano 105 STI shifters
Avid Shorty 4 brakes with Shimano 105 levers
Shimano XT hubs (as this is now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with Shimano LX hubs)
Mavic T221 rims (as this is now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with Rigida Nova rims)
Schwalbe Marathon Slick tyres (as this now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with Continental Country tyres)
ITM Kero III bar
ITM forged stem
Selle San Marco Rolls saddle (as this is now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with a Viper saddle)
(Please note that specifications are subject to change by the supplier without prior notice. If you would like to confirm the specification of you bike please feel free to call us)

So, full marks to Evans for a swift response :0)

My job is done.

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England

strofiwimple · June 2007

Many thanks to Vernonlevy and Houlie, i was beginning to feel a bit of a fraud! Cycling is my relax from my other sports amd i am so glad to hear you say i can pootle on as i am.

If i can equate it to my main sport of badminton- there are tons of racquets recommended by the stars but they could beat me with a frying pan!! i will "carry on regardless" to quote the beautiful south till i have probs.

ps thanks for the tips- i have a spoke key and will carry some spare spokes for my pootle from inverness to glasgow.

forever on the magic roundabout

Nigeyy · June 2007

Now that's better from Evans -I think your diligence has paid off. Made me think of a couple of other questions:

i. could you call up Evans and ask them to get you a bike with the better specs? (imagining an Evans employee going through bike boxes in a warehouse at the moment). I'm not sure they would, but you never know!

ii. And has anyone received these bikes from Evans with the better spec? Just curious.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Houlie

It looks like my e-mail to Evans has already elicited a response on their website. I have just checked it and saw the following;

Reynolds 853 Tig welded compact frame
Butted CroMoly fork
Shimano 105 triple chainset
Shimano Tiagra front / XT rear derailleurs
Shimano 105 STI shifters
Avid Shorty 4 brakes with Shimano 105 levers
Shimano XT hubs (as this is now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with Shimano LX hubs)
Mavic T221 rims (as this is now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with Rigida Nova rims)
Schwalbe Marathon Slick tyres (as this now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with Continental Country tyres)
ITM Kero III bar
ITM forged stem
Selle San Marco Rolls saddle (as this is now an old bike we have had some bikes supplied by Dawes with a Viper saddle)
(Please note that specifications are subject to change by the supplier without prior notice. If you would like to confirm the specification of you bike please feel free to call us)

So, full marks to Evans for a swift response :0)

My job is done.

Tony Houlihan
Westmorland
England
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fight Cystic Fibrosis: do something. http://www.cycleforhaylee.org http://www.cff.org

Caveat Emptor - 2005 Dawes Ultra Galaxy from Evans

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