Astana's Dauphine Tactics?

monty_dogcp · June 2007

So Astana take 4 stage wins, have the yellow jersey for a number of days and yet seem to be happy to let Moreau take the overall? Are they just happy that they're coming into form for the Tour and so not gonna nail themselves and keep their powder dry. With Vino, Kash and perhaps Kloden coming into form they are probably one of the strongest Tour line-ups at the moment - anyone care to comment?.

Unknown · June 2007

I could but it might be considered libellous...

Did you get planning permission for that sense of humour bypass?

Noodley · June 2007

Kloden for the Tour.

nickwill · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Calvjones

I could but it might be considered libellous...

Did you get planning permission for that sense of humour bypass?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

seconded!

You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Mr Bumble · June 2007

Hmmm...

I reckon Astana are experimenting not just with their form but a tactical formula...

which kind of worked- they will refine it by the TdF, I have a feeling the peloton may be surprised[;)]

Unknown · June 2007

In one of the magazines Vino says that he is heading up Astanas tour GC attempt and that the whole team is behind him so if Kloden wants to do it he'll have to go through Vino first. I've got to say there looking strong as the TdF approaches.

Pauldcp · June 2007

The dauphine is about warming up for the Tour not about winning the dauphine.

Often the time trial results are the best indicator because most of the contenders try that day.

Only Frnech riders and rising stars who have little chance of winning the tour are desperate to win the dauphine.

weyayeman · June 2007

You cant keep a good man down

OH Vino to the dexys song[:D]

How son yee divent need gaan doon the Pit,coz thas plenty coal in the coal hoose

kmahony · June 2007

Partly morale building, partly a show of strength. All done without any of them being put under pressure.

Looking nailed on for the tour.

If it wasn't for hangovers, I'd ride everyday.

leguape · June 2007

I go with the show of strength - a display of how many of their riders can win stages. Which might mean a many-pronged attack on Le Tour in that to stand a chance all the other team captains will have to beat at least 3 Astana riders Vino, Kash and Kloden with Mazolleni, Kessler and Savoldelli as super-domos. I certainly wouldn't fancy trying to tangle with that plus any three others from their squad.

http://www.atomicecho.com/cycling/index.shtml - My cycling blog. From commuting to crits and sportives.

LangerDan · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by leguape

I go with the show of strength - a display of how many of their riders can win stages. Which might mean a many-pronged attack on Le Tour in that to stand a chance all the other team captains will have to beat at least 3 Astana riders Vino, Kash and Kloden with Mazolleni, Kessler and Savoldelli as super-domos. I certainly wouldn't fancy trying to tangle with that plus any three others from their squad.

http://www.atomicecho.com/cycling/index.shtml - My cycling blog. From commuting to crits and sportives.
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Unfortunately I'd be very surprised if all that line-up made the start in London.

In any case, I feel that only Kash has some head on his shoulders. Vino has spent the vast majority of his grand-tour career to date chasing anything up the road - breaks, shadows, bits of litter. He seems to have calmed a little of late but he doesn't appear to have the economy of effort that has defined most tour winners of late. Kloden is happy as long as he has a wheel to chase - a bit like Menchov.

"Hincapie's Disco pants are the best,
They go from his arse to his chest,
They're better than 'Sandro Ballans.
Hincapie's Disco pants"

Fat Head · June 2007

If Vino collapses again like he did on the ventoux then he won't win the tour. I think you will all agree that we have seen some top riders look very vulnerable in the last two tours. This can only be a good thing, and if it has been caused by the vacuum effect of a cleaner sport, even better.

As for the tour, not sure for overall, but if petacchi is clear to race i think he'll take the green jersey pretty comfortably

Birillo · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> If Vino collapses again like he did on the ventoux then he won't win the tour. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Collapse or tactical withdrawal? When "Cashking" (copyright D. Duffield) failed to react when Moreau attacked yesterday, I couldn't help think that AG2R owe Astana a few favours . . .

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birillo

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> If Vino collapses again like he did on the ventoux then he won't win the tour. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Collapse or tactical withdrawal? When "Cashking" (copyright D. Duffield) failed to react when Moreau attacked yesterday, I couldn't help think that AG2R owe Astana a few favours . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My thoughts exactly. Astana have signed up a strong ally at the cost of a race they show they could have won but chose not to.

Vino didn't put himself in the red on Ventoux to keep his condition where he wanted it.

TdG

monty_dogcp · June 2007

AGR are never going to be a threat to GC, so I expect by letting Moreau have his day, then Astana are going to be able to call in the favours should they need them. By taking the share of the stage wins, they've also demonstrated a strength in depth that few other team could match.

Keith Oates · June 2007

It's difficult to know if they were saving something for the Tour or whether Vino did have a bad day on the Ventoux. I'm inclined to think he had a bad day!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ride Daily, Keep Healthy

Mr Bumble · June 2007

Originally posted by Keith Oates

It's difficult to know if they were saving something for the Tour or whether Vino did have a bad day on the Ventoux. I'm inclined to think he had a bad day!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I agree with you that Vino did seem to be having genuinely poor legs he did seem to exagerate just how bad he was feeling....

like he was trying to not only show his achilles heel but make it look larger and vulnerable

Unknown · June 2007

smoke and mirrors[:D]

Jocksyboy

Steve Tcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by guv001

In one of the magazines Vino says that he is heading up Astanas tour GC attempt and that the whole team is behind him so if Kloden wants to do it he'll have to go through Vino first. I've got to say there looking strong as the TdF approaches.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's the same Kloden who swore he'd never ride with Vino again a couple of years back because he attacked Ulrich.

Take care,

Steve.

Steve Tcp · June 2007

I've been very confused by Vino in the Dauphine, but I don't beleive for a minute his "blow" on Ventoux was a faked, it's typical of the man - on fire one day on flat tyres the next. One thing I am sure of though is that if he loses 7 minutes in one day on a Tour stage I very much doubt that any team will let him get into a break the following day and regain 5 of them.

Take care,

Steve.

Tom Butcher · June 2007

I think he probably did just let them ride away - maybe he couldn't have stayed with them all the way up, maybe he could, but I don't believe he blew to that extent.

Warning about well known bike shop removed at request of moderators.

pat1cp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve T

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by guv001

In one of the magazines Vino says that he is heading up Astanas tour GC attempt and that the whole team is behind him so if Kloden wants to do it he'll have to go through Vino first. I've got to say there looking strong as the TdF approaches.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's the same Kloden who swore he'd never ride with Vino again a couple of years back because he attacked Ulrich.

Take care,

Steve.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Money talks.

I think Kloden will have to tow the team line simply because the entire team has been built by/around Vino using Kazak money. If Kloden does start attacking Vino I think he'll find himself looking for a new job rather quickly.

http://tinyurl.com/332edp
http://tinyurl.com/2nu7r3

Steve Tcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pat1

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve T

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by guv001

In one of the magazines Vino says that he is heading up Astanas tour GC attempt and that the whole team is behind him so if Kloden wants to do it he'll have to go through Vino first. I've got to say there looking strong as the TdF approaches.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's the same Kloden who swore he'd never ride with Vino again a couple of years back because he attacked Ulrich.

Take care,

Steve.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Money talks.

I think Kloden will have to tow the team line simply because the entire team has been built by/around Vino using Kazak money. If Kloden does start attacking Vino I think he'll find himself looking for a new job rather quickly.

http://tinyurl.com/332edp
http://tinyurl.com/2nu7r3

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh I think he'll tow the line alright. I suppose I was more suprprised that Kloden went to Astana in the first place. As you say though, money talks.

Take care,

Steve.

Redmike · June 2007

I reckon Astana got it spot on and I also think Vinokourov will win the Tour. In Manolo Saiz they have probably the best DS going - always respected him at ONCE.

Steve Tcp · June 2007

Will Saiz be allowed at Le Tour? He does have a bit of a doping track record doesn't he, even if he is only a DS?

Take care,

Steve.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Redmike

I reckon Astana got it spot on and I also think Vinokourov will win the Tour. In Manolo Saiz they have probably the best DS going - always respected him at ONCE.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Manolo Saiz has nothing to do with Astana. As a key, nay the key, suspect, in Operacion Puerto the less he has with cycling in the future the better.

I have no respect for him whatsoever.

Steve Tcp · June 2007

I doubt many people have much respect for Saiz. Just checked and indeed he's not been involved with Astana for many months. He should stay out of cyclng altogether and I certainly can't see Prudhomme having him around Le Tour.

Take care,

Steve.

Fat Head · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birillo

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> If Vino collapses again like he did on the ventoux then he won't win the tour. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Collapse or tactical withdrawal? When "Cashking" (copyright D. Duffield) failed to react when Moreau attacked yesterday, I couldn't help think that AG2R owe Astana a few favours . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you were watching Eurosport coverage, there was a bit when the camera froze on Vino's face just as he was sliding back down the Ventoux. He looked totally melted to me!

Who cares anyhow, bring on the tour!!!!

flattythehurdler · June 2007

Personally I think that if one of Astana tested negative they would be kicked off the team

Dan

paullaming · June 2007

I reckon Kash just couldn't live with Moreau on the last but one stage in the Dauphine. The pace can't have been that hot because Evans stuck with him so I reckon Kash had a bad day.With Vino you can't tell, he looked happy just to push the pedals over and get some miles in, looked great in the TT and good on the last day (hope Leipheimer didn't do any damage - nasty tumble that). Surely Astana wouldn't have let the race slip intentionally 'cos they were in the box seat at the start of the stage. If they thought Kash could stick with the pace they'd surely have had their man up the road sit up and help him on the last climb - surely overall is worth more than a stage win. I also don't buy the AG2R owing Astana in the TDF - they're a French team in their biggest race and any 'assistance' would be fairly obvious and a slight against the Dauphine in the eyes of the French fans plus Moreau is on good form and might fancy a pop at GC himself - he consistently finishes top 10. Anyway Astana should be strong enough on their own. But don't discount CSC either.
I think I've covered all my tips for the TDF there!

monty_dogcp · June 2007

I'm of the view that Astana are playing a very shrewd game - each taking it in turn to test their capabilities, but not blowing-themselves out in the process - the fact that they were quite happy to let a team rider go off down the road for stage victories, whereas if they were serious about GC, they would have pulled the rider back to support their GC contenders. If they were genuinely tired, it doesn't explain Vino's recovery on the last day - he was merely demonstrating to the peloton that he was perfectly in control of the race by riding off the front to take the stage.

Astana's Dauphine Tactics?

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