Fast tourer dilema

dannygcp · June 2007

I am keen to buy a fast tourer or audax bike to supplement my trusty, but old, 531 tourer.

A key issue for me is that I am quite tall (6ft) but have short arms and suffer from lower back problems, so I want a bike which has a relatively short reach and which will let me adjust the handlebars so that they are at saddle height.

I want a steel frame rather than aluminium, and there must be fittings for both a rack and mudguards. Ideally I don't want to pay more than œ800, and would prefer to pay less if possible.

My current thinking is to go for one of these
a) Dawes Audax from Spa Cycles - the 2006 version is available for œ650, or
b) Thorn Brevet or Club Tour, both of which cost between œ794 and œ849 depending on spec.

The Dawes Audax beats both the Thorn's on looks and specification, and is from a relatively local store. However Thorn offer more sizing options, and I know that when I previously tried a Dawes I found the reach too long for me with the supplied stem. Obviously I can swap stems on the Dawes but wonder whether I would still be better off with a "short" Thorn - the obvious issue being that I cannot try the Thorn out first to find out.

Or would I be better off saving up to buy a custom built frame that fits me exactly. The problem being that I cannot see myself getting a complete bike for less than œ1000 even if I build much of it myself.

So what should I do?

peterbr · June 2007

You probably don't absolutely need a custom frameset. Most bikes come with a 100-120mm stem with a modern ahead-set. Any good bike shop would be able to swap this out for a 50mm or 80mm, possibly at no extra cost - so you have at least two sizes of top tube equivalent adjustment.

The height is just a question of delivering the bike without the steerer being cut to length. You can then play about with spacers until you get it just right. It's common to see tourers with one spacer above the stem to allow different bar heights.

I'd advise you pick a quiet weekday afternoon and pay the shop a visit - if they are serious about your business, they will devote a couple of hours to getting everything just right for you. Don't part with your money until totally satisfied and try 2-3 shops with different brands before considering a custom (unless of course you really want the cachet of such a frame).

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants and Ivory go together in perfect harmony. Oh Lord, why can't we?

Unknown · June 2007

I reckon that especially with a horizontal top tube and if you don't mind having only a relatively short exposed seat post then yes with sufficient uncut steerer and right (length and angle) stem the Dawes should be o.k.

As you imply, Thorns are nice, but relatively expensive.

d.j.
"The Angels have my 'phone box."
"Better than The Angels have got your Harley."

Anonymous · June 2007

I bought a Thorn club tour, I'm 6 ft tall and have a damaged spine so I went for right size frame, but with a short top tube fitted perfectly and I bought it over the phone have a chat with Robin (I think that is his name). I have done over 10000 miles in two years with out any problems to me or the bike[:)]

Non Omnis Moriar

Colin Kyte · June 2007

Condor has two great Audax/light tourers, one in steel, the "Fratello" one in Alu, the "Agio", both have fittings for mudguards and rack and you can choose the spec level. I myself have just ordered the Agio.

Good luck

Colink

Chris James · June 2007

The Dawes Audax 06 has an adjustable headset by NVO. Forgotten what the proper name for it, but you can adjust it like an old stem setup.

http://www.nvocomponents.com/

If you go for the Dawes then I think you will need to get a shorter stem, but it shouldn't be a problem, but it would need to be an NVO one as it has to fit the guide on the headset.

JWSurrey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Colin Kyte

Condor has two great Audax/light tourers, one in steel, the "Fratello" one in Alu, the "Agio"...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I liked my '07 Fratello so much, I went back for a Squadra!

Condor are worth a look - They put me on the jig and sized it perfectly - I used to suffer from lower back issues too.
(See C+ comment this month on Condor fitting).

The Frat. has curved "shock absorbing" seat stays.

I had a set of ITM Marathon bars put on - swept back tops, which give a wider variety of positions, and enable you to sit up more.
Increased the stack height - It's a compact geometry anyway.

My spec. came as standard with a carbon seatpost, which helps absorb the shocks.
25c reflective sidewall GP4000s - nice and comfy, but pricey.

Call ahead if you go down, esp. if you want a test-ride.

The Agio won't take guards with more than 23c (unofficially, I think you can squeeze in 25cs), and has a more racy setup with greater toe overlap.

Spec'd mine with a compact chainset and 13-29.

Should be able to get one with standard spec. for under a grand.

dannygcp · June 2007

Thanks for all the helpful comments so far.

Does anyone out there actually ride a Dawes Audax?

I realise that one of the things that has stopped me from going for a Dawes so far is that at the back of my mind I have this feeling that Dawes are no longer the company they once were and have just become another importer of Taiwanese frames.

I know that Thorn frames also come from Taiwan, but they seem to be making a real effort to be customer focussed by offering a large range of models and sizing options.

But maybe I am pining for a golden Dawes era that has long gone or perhaps never really existed.

Meanwhile I'll have a think about the Fratello.

Chris James · June 2007

Yes, I have a Dawes Audax 06 and am very pleased with it. Not particularly light but rides well.

There are a few of us on the forum (toontra and crackle off the top of my head), if you do a search then you can see what people have said about the bike. As far as I can recall, everyone who has got one is pretty pleased with it, although they may be along later to disagree!

father_jack · June 2007

dannygcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Father Jack

What about Orbit Helium?

http://www.orbit-cycles.co.uk/helium.shtml
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My current frame is actually an old Orbit Gold medal. Was not very impressed with the original build quality - a rear drop out snapped in the first year and the paint came off like it was tissue paper - and am not convinced that current Orbits are much better.

Having said that Orbit repaired the drop out under guarantee and re-sprayed the bike, and it has been going strong ever since (though over the years I have replaced just about all the original parts and resprayed it three times).

JWSurrey · June 2007

I have vague 1990s memories of the Dawes being sold off to a Far Eastern outfit, so I think you're right in that they're no longer who they were - though that was at a time when Raleigh were still in Nottingham.

If you have back issues, it may be worth going for a bike shop that will size you up on a jig. Who knows, perhaps the Dawes you seek will be a perfect fit without a stem change.

dannygcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JWSurrey

If you have back issues, it may be worth going for a bike shop that will size you up on a jig. Who knows, perhaps the Dawes you seek will be a perfect fit without a stem change.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Which is obviously a good argument for buying from a LBS like SPA rather than mail order. I am also tempted to pay a visit to Bike Fitting when I am next in London, though this would make a big dent in my bike buying budget.

Unknown · June 2007

I ride an older vintage (1997)Dawes Audax (531c frame), which is a great ride, very comfy.

Dawes are now based on Taiwanese frames, but that in no way makes them any the worse for it in my opinion. I think they should be judged on their bikes, and their bikes continue to be very good.

DavidTQ · June 2007

My current bike is a 07 dawes discovery 201, bottom of the range bike but well enough designed\spec'd and built to have convinced me to ditch my car completely! I havent regretted my decision to buy the bike at all.

Its at least as good as my last dawes which I also liked back in 1991.

Fab Foodie · June 2007

Thorn are great if you can get to the factory store.
Otherwise, they do a refundable option where you get to return the bike if not happy, that's a pretty cool option that no other manufacturer offers. Also the shorter TT is a very sensible option.

You can always get a cycle-fit anywhere and once you have the data send to Thorn or whoever. mayve 30+ quid well spent.

The pessimists of this world are rarely disappointed....
Fab's TCR1

Bigtallfatbloke · June 2007

I have got a Daws Galaxy 07. I am 6'4" tall and weigh 20 stone ish...and falling by the hill!
I bought the 64 frame (biggest they do) and so far so good. It's heavy imo but I'm not all that fit yet. I find the reach ok. Got mine for œ650 including additional blackburn front rack and some other minor stuff.
..it works for me.

Noodley · June 2007

I know you said steel, but maybe have a look at Van Nicholas Ti bikes - Yukon or Amazon. More expensive (quite a bit) than those mentioned, but Fat Birds have discount on them. Prices are between œ1400 and over œ2000 depending on spec.

I am looking at them, intially having started looking at steel - although I am still considering steel. Maybe just widens your options a bit. I know they are more expensive (did I mention that? [;)])

dannygcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Noodley

I know you said steel, but maybe have a look at Van Nicholas Ti bikes - Yukon or Amazon. More expensive (quite a bit) than those mentioned, but Fat Birds have discount on them. Prices are between œ1400 and over œ2000 depending on spec.

I am looking at them, intially having started looking at steel - although I am still considering steel. Maybe just widens your options a bit. I know they are more expensive (did I mention that? [;)])
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd love a Van Nicholas Yi, but unfortunately it is currently outside my budget. Also if I did decide to spend that much I think would be seriously tempted to got for a custom built steel frame as a good fit and comfort are more a priority for me than saving weight. The again if money was no object I'd have both.

ForumNewbie · June 2007

I got a Dawes Audax about 6 months agao from Spa Cycles. Really pleased with it. My first decent bike and first time with drops, I soon found the reach was too much of a strain as I have shortish arms and am getting on a bit. I moved the saddle nearer and lowered it a bit, then bought a shorter stem with spacers to replace what was there. Much better now.

Unless things have changed Spa sell the boxed version for œ650 and if you want one made up to take away it is œ680. However I doubt you will find it cheaper.

toontra · June 2007

Just found this thread! I have a 2006 Dawes Audax and have already done a tour with average daily mileages of 150 miles (172 miles one day). Completely comfortable (I'm 6') and I didn't have any problems. The only things I changed were the cassette (I wanted a 27t small ring) and the saddle. As has been said they're not the lightest, but the geometry means that long rides and big hills are all possible.

I see the 2007 models have a double chainset, which I wouldn't want. Seems a strange move from Dawes.

there's no such thing as steep hills - just the wrong gear

SeanT · June 2007

Have you considered a Bob Jackson. I have an End to End, I think it was œ375 for the frame and fork. It might be worth talking to them, they were happy to supply the End to End with a longer headtube for no extra cost, and their full custom fit was not that much more expensive. It's a lovely bike, and I'm sure they could spec you something within your budget.

Two of my club mates ride 2005 Dawes Audax, the frames are nice, and they are a great spec for the money, but both have had trouble with loose spokes and spoke breakage. Another club mate has a new Ultra Galaxy and he's had the same trouble. It could have been a quality control issue which is now resolved, but Id get Spa to fettle the wheels just to be sure If you go for the Audax.

dannygcp · June 2007

Toontra - agree about the chainset on the 2007 Audax, which is one of the reasons I would go for a 2006.

Sean - will defintely check out Bob Jacksons who did a really good job at repairing and respraying my current frame. My only concern is that once I get into building a bike from scratch I'll be too tempted to buy top end kit and blow my own budget out of the water. And thanks for the warning about loose spokes on Dawes which rather confirms my prejudices about quality control on their moder bikes.

Fast tourer dilema

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