Millar is a talented cyclist,

Unknown
Unknown
edited June 2007 in Pro race
riding clean

2003

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/ju ... lts/stage3

2007

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/ju ... ere073#res


________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.

Comments

  • nick hanson
    nick hanson Posts: 1,655
    He does seem somewhat off the pace,given that it's getting close to TDF time.
    I was a little surprised to see Vino at the top of the pile,maybe he's peaked too early?

    so many cols,so little time!
    so many cols,so little time!
  • hevipedal
    hevipedal Posts: 2,475
    10th place now but ready for the tour maybe? but where was Wiggins - 44th

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  • sylvanus
    sylvanus Posts: 1,125
    I think you're right Dave_1. The riders above mostly have form or suspected form! Sad but then maybe we have to accept that is time to start the league of clean cycling supporters?
  • Keith Oates
    Keith Oates Posts: 22,036
    For whatever reason Millar seems to be below par at the moment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Ride Daily, Keep Healthy
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  • redbicycle
    redbicycle Posts: 271
    as much as I've always enjoyed Vino's attacking style of riding his results today seem improbable given his quiet year so far. That, and given his past associations with Heinrich Lothar and Manolo Saiz...well, it doens't take much to connect the dots. I'm ashamed to be so suspicious and cynical but that's the current state of affairs in pro cycling...
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    My attitude is David Millar is definitely clean and he did a good ride yesterday and his results give clear evidence of the limits of talent without dope. Vino had a connection to Lothar Heinrich, Saiz..it makes him seem shady to me even though he has no positives, so my enjoyment of Vino's career is diminshed a bit sadly

    ________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.
  • sylvanus
    sylvanus Posts: 1,125
    Look at Vino's refusal to even discuss doping with journalists. His deliberate silence speaks volumes. Equally all the riders from T-Mobile that refused to join the new clean regime headed straight for Astana / Godefroot / Saiz. Its ironic that Godefroot is now claiming innocence since apparently he was famous for the industrial quantity of uppers and speed he could consume in a race. Even in a doped peloton, he was king of the pills and sadly seems that Vino is his spiritual heir.
  • kavcp
    kavcp Posts: 101
    I've said it before and I'll say it again - it is almost irrelevant whether Vino is 'clean' or not it is the fact that it is open to debate and conjecture and disbelief in his performances that is the issue. I don't think there are many people who would be satisfied with a Vino or Kloden or Valverde win at the Tour simply because we couldn't be <i>sure</i> given their attitudes, statements, history and associations that they were honest.

    This is the mess that cycling has created for itself (no winner of the '96 or '06 Tours don't forget, the Festina debacle and subsequent record for Virenque in the KoM), and this is the mess that threatens to spoil the spectacle and drive away fans, sponsors and TV.

    I'm still waiting for the UCI to show some real leadership in this area - it is a critical time for them and the sport they govern and all I can remember is McQuaids' "it's not that bad these days" quote of about 4 weeks ago. If ever there was a man standing in a pile of rubble and admiring the beautiful building it is him.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    3 points:

    - Millar is recovering from a pretty bad crash so is only regaining form.
    - How do we know for sure that Millar is clean?

    - How do we know how fast a "clean" Millar can go? When was he doping in the past and when was he not? Musseuw claimed that he only doped at the end of his career and nobody here believes that, so why believe Millar only used EPO to win the world time trial championships in 03?

    TdG
  • kavcp
    kavcp Posts: 101
    Quite, and this is why a credibility gap is opening up between the riders and the fans and media. It is really bloody frustrating. I used to just believe whatever was put in front of me. Happy days.
  • Ste_S
    Ste_S Posts: 1,173
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Timoid</i>

    3 points:

    - Millar is recovering from a pretty bad crash so is only regaining form.
    - How do we know for sure that Millar is clean?

    - How do we know how fast a "clean" Millar can go? When was he doping in the past and when was he not? Musseuw claimed that he only doped at the end of his career and nobody here believes that, so why believe Millar only used EPO to win the world time trial championships in 03?

    TdG
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Is Millar randomly tested by BC, as he rides for GB at the worlds ? Or is it just the youngsters and those in the Olympic squad ?
  • The Mechanic
    The Mechanic Posts: 1,277
    So now, if you win a race, you must be doped up. If you come last, your Mr Clean. Don't forget the law of Libel applies to all media, including forums.

    Don't worry the man said, things could be worse. And sure enough, they got worse
    I have only two things to say to that; Bo***cks
  • leguape
    leguape Posts: 986
    I thought Millar had agreed to the BC testing regime and was also having an additiomnal 6-8 blood tests a season, far in excess of what Suanier Duval required. As for this frankly defamatory stuff about Vino, remember who is was who couldn't ride the Tour last year because half his team, but not him, were implicated in Puerto. If Vino had been in Saiz camp the he would have most likely been on that list. He wasn't.

    It's a very high-minded farce to suggest you can't "be sure" of them being clean because they haven't chosen to make a lot of noise. I remember both Carl Lewis and Linford Christie trying to stand on the higher moral ground over Ben Johnson and condemning doping. Well they both did and tested positive for it.
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  • PeteinSQ
    PeteinSQ Posts: 2,292
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">but where was Wiggins - 44th<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    He is only there for the prologue which is much shorter than this time trial.
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  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Millar did win the TT at the Vuelta last year didn't he ? I haven't checked but I seem to remember he did - so assuming he is now clean he has proved he can win time trials in bigger races than the Dauphine since his comeback.
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  • kavcp
    kavcp Posts: 101
    In my case my high mindedness is limited to being unable, in the current climate, to trust results regardless of the rider. This is not a failing on my side, it is a problem of credibility on the part of pro cycling created over time through an inability to deal effectively with an ongoing history of doping.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Millar, like Wiggins, will be aiming full out for the prologue surely. So you might not expect him to be in top form for a long ITT like this one. Similarly we shouldn't worry about Wiggins being 44th. I think both have a reasonable chance in the prologue but suspect neither of them will get it - probably Vino will and we'll be able to guess why.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by pedalpower</i>

    Millar, like Wiggins, will be aiming full out for the prologue surely. So you might not expect him to be in top form for a long ITT like this one. Similarly we shouldn't worry about Wiggins being 44th. I think both have a reasonable chance in the prologue but suspect neither of them will get it - probably Vino will and we'll be able to guess why.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    WTF would Vino even want to win the prologue? A few seconds gained and the burden of the yellow jersey from the off is not really part of an overall winning strategy.

    The attitude that all UK riders are clean and all "foreigners" dope that prevails on this forum is getting on my nerves. As far as I'm aware of Vino and Millar only one is a proven doper.

    TdG
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    How much does the prologue really matter? It is only there to put someone in yellow for the first stage and the result has no bearing on the final GC, everyone being seperated by only a few seconds.

    I think our interest in it harks back to our traditional obsession with time-trials and the mythology that the winner of the so called "Race of Truth" is more worthy than someone who wins a road stage. In my book a rider who has mastered not only the speed needed to take a road race but has the tactical acumen to read a race and get the strategy right is the superior rider.

    Prologue wins are the second prize, stage victories are what I would rather see a British rider get.
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  • papso
    papso Posts: 14
    To get it straight from Millar himself have a look at his diary on Bicyclng.com - talks about his form and performances this week.

    http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/article/0,6802,s1-7-123-16144-1,00.html
  • millar time
    millar time Posts: 392
    interesting link, thanks.

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