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Archcp · June 2007

A film where, in an effort to show up some pretty crap bus driving, the film maker makes an elementary mistake - passing down the inside of a long vehicle, which might move off at any moment..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4SYxMnU ... ed&search=

I think I'd have just stayed behind...

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

The Bosscp · June 2007

Yes, it was stupid by the cyclist. Buses always do that because their drivers are always pillocks.

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Eat My Dust · June 2007

I'm afraid the person in question is a forum member. I can't remember his user name though. Very naughty!

SNAPS

BentMikey · June 2007

Oh dear! Panticle wrote a good comment there. Bad driving, but also bad cycling.

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Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BentMikey

Oh dear! Panticle wrote a good comment there. Bad driving, but also bad cycling.

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If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.
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Yeah, that Panticle is really sensible. Really has her head screwed on right. I believe she's also excellent company for dinner, and a natural wit and raconteur...

And makes great films, like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9onKKAnzhOU

[;)]

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

BentMikey · June 2007

Doh! I mixed you up with someone else I know online, sorry!

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Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BentMikey

Doh! I mixed you up with someone else I know online, sorry!

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If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.
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Even I get confused, having a couple of different usernames for here and elsewhere... [;)]

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

dondare · June 2007

I ignore cycle lanes when I'm cycling, so it doesn't bother me much when motorists ignore them too. I'd probably have gone up the inside of that bus too.
What this vid shows me seems 100% everyday normal behaviour by cyclists and bus drivers.

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Ghost Donkey · June 2007

I've seen a few of his videos before and quite a few replys comment on his cycle craft or lack of. There's even a local news piece on there from a slow news day.

magnatom · June 2007

Yes he shouldn't have gone down the left. As well as being generally dangerous, it was obvious from the video that space was tight. I wonder if the wearer does maneuvers like this to provoke conflict to get some video to post.

As for the cycle lanes in the video, yet again I think they need to be ignored. They led the cyclists up the left at the lights[:0], and they discourage proper road positioning at the junction[:0].

dondare · June 2007

When there's room and time to do so, filtering up the left does not give rise to conflict. Under certain circumstances it can get you killed, but years of experience allow me to identify these circumstances.
The space looks a bit tight, maybe some of you have wide handle bars or panniers? Looked like plenty of room to me given that the bus was stationary at the lights. I'd have held back only if there wan't time to pass the bus before the lights changed and the bus started moving, and the cyclist making the film judged that about right.
But for an inexperienced cyclist or anyone not absolutely sure that they had the time to get through, then it was a risky move, and I'd not recommend it.

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Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

When there's room and time to do so, filtering up the left does not give rise to conflict. Under certain circumstances it can get you killed, but years of experience allow me to identify these circumstances.
The space looks a bit tight, maybe some of you have wide handle bars or panniers? Looked like plenty of room to me given that the bus was stationary at the lights. I'd have held back only if there wan't time to pass the bus before the lights changed and the bus started moving, and the cyclist making the film judged that about right.
But for an inexperienced cyclist or anyone not absolutely sure that they had the time to get through, then it was a risky move, and I'd not recommend it.

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The thing that struck me was that the lights change pretty soon after he gets to the front. If that was me, and they'd been red for a while as I approached, I'd assume they might be about to change. I only filter on the left for as far as I can be sure I'll get before the lights change - so sometimes I'm waiting back a bit for a while, but better to be safe than sorry.

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

njc97 · June 2007

Why did the cyclist need to go to the front anyway ? He's never going to outrun the bus, so even in best case scenario he forces the bus to sit behind him till the road gets wider. Surely the safest action would have been to stop and wait behind the bus till the lights changed.

dondare · June 2007

The back end of a bus is very stinky. I avoid waiting there if I can.

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dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arch

The thing that struck me was that the lights change pretty soon after he gets to the front. If that was me, and they'd been red for a while as I approached, I'd assume they might be about to change. I only filter on the left for as far as I can be sure I'll get before the lights change - so sometimes I'm waiting back a bit for a while, but better to be safe than sorry.

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
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If that'd been me, the answer would be that I knew the timing of the lights because I ride there every day. I'd also know that the bus wasn't about to turn left. I'd know the distance to the next bus stop and how much room the driver had to get past me between the lights and the stop.

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Greenbank · June 2007

And it was quite obvious they wanted to get to the front of the coach to confront the driver (you can tell since the video cuts and jumps at that point)

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Small Fish · June 2007

As a general rule I tell myself that as long as it's in front of me, a big heavy vehicle can't kill me!

But that said, on my regular route home I pass a very similar junction to the one in the video and - like Dondare says above - because I know the phasing of the lights I know whether I've got time to get infront of a bus and up to the ASL before the lights change. Then as long as I get a good start from the lights I can beat the bus to the bus stop 50m past the lights knowing that the vast majority of busses stop there so it's unlikely to pass me again.

magnatom · June 2007

Maybe I'm a big girls blouse [:D], but I avoid going up the left of large vehicles whenever I can. What happens if the phase of the lights has been changed (Some lights near me change the length of the phases at different times of the day). What if the driver decides to let a passenger off at the lights (yes he should look but....), what if he is daydreaming and decides to go even though the lights haven't changed (I've seen it happen!).What happens if that bus is out of service and is turning left?

It just isn't worth risking it for a few seconds advantage. If you know the bus is likely to stop just after the lights, why not wait until then to pass it safely on the left?

Greenbank · June 2007

magnatom:-

All valid points, but what if you stay behind the bus and he accidently engages reverse and plows backwards into you?

It's risk/reward.

I go down the side of some HGV/PCVs when I think it's safe. I don't when I don't think it's completely unsafe. I sometimes do when I think it's almost completely safe and sometimes it turns out to be the wrong decision.

What you think is unsafe someone else might think is only slightly unsafe and risk it.

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magnatom · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Greenbank

magnatom:-

What you think is unsafe someone else might think is only slightly unsafe and risk it.
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This is why I decided a while ago not to undertake these at all at junctions. We all make mistakes and if I was to make a misjudgement it could have serious consequences. My blanket ban means that I won't make that mistake.

Cycling is safe, and has some, but very small risks attached to it. However, in my opinion, undertaking large vehicles at junctions is the most dangerous thing a cyclist can do on the roads, and recent events in London back this up. I just can't see how it is worth the risk. I'd rather a 10 second delay.

Jacomus-rides-Gen · June 2007

True, but if you really want to get past them, why not do it on the right, where they expect something to come from?

The art of cycling safely ni high traffic environments is an excercise risk minimisation by the cyclist. Going up the left of any vehicle carries risk, and the bigger the vehilce the bigger the risk.

Personally I just don't do it, and any time I may lose by sitting there until it gets out of the way is fine with me, especially if sed bus / coach etc speeds up to faster than I can ride I get a free surf and don't get overtaken by an HGV. Result!

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Unknown · June 2007

That was a pretty bad cycling -- passing big buses/lorries/cars on the left is not the best idea. If I were in a similar situation, I'd take a primary position behind the bus. That would discourage any cars behind me from overtaking me dangerously and I could then draft the bus.

dondare · June 2007

Primary position behind buses is stinky and drafting buses is a bit risky in itself.

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BentMikey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

Primary position behind buses is stinky and drafting buses is a bit risky in itself.
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I must admit I'm a bit surprised at your position in this topic. Sure, I agree that there are times when it's good to go to the front, but I don't think this is one of those cases. I'll bet the coach driver was weeed off, quite rightly, though I think he was also an utter blunt for driving like that.

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dondare · June 2007

I've just watched it again with sound. The bus sounds angry, but I can't see why. The cyclist couldn't have been actually blocking the bus at any point. Drifting into the cycle-lane occurred at a safe distance ahead after he'd overtaken. It really does all seem very commonplace to me.

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Tom Butcher · June 2007

If the lights have just changed then there's plenty of time to get down the inside safely - I don't see the problem for an experienced rider - it's safe and legal and as someone else pointed out if the bus did run the light there is an escape route.

The cyclist does nothing that should antagonise the bus driver - the driver puts the cyclist at risk by encroaching on the cycle lane.

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dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BentMikey

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

Primary position behind buses is stinky and drafting buses is a bit risky in itself.
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I must admit I'm a bit surprised at your position in this topic. Sure, I agree that there are times when it's good to go to the front, but I don't think this is one of those cases. I'll bet the coach driver was weeed off, quite rightly, though I think he was also an utter blunt for driving like that.

My bikes
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If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.
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Don't suppose I'd try it on a 'bent.

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This isn't anyone here is it?

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