Single stabiliser

Has anyone taught a kid to ride using a single stabiliser - ie removed one and left one on ?
I teach an after school cycling club and we have some quite young kids - one has one stabiliser on - I'm minded to tell his parents either to send him with both or neither - what do you think ? Last week we took the stabiliser off (probably a mistake) and gave him some 1 to 1 tuition on a grass surface - but his parents have reacted badly to this.
Warning about well known bike shop removed at request of moderators.
I teach an after school cycling club and we have some quite young kids - one has one stabiliser on - I'm minded to tell his parents either to send him with both or neither - what do you think ? Last week we took the stabiliser off (probably a mistake) and gave him some 1 to 1 tuition on a grass surface - but his parents have reacted badly to this.
Warning about well known bike shop removed at request of moderators.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
0
Posts
On the other hand my grandson dropped his stabilisers at three. The only problem was teaching him about brakes (which costs a fortune in shoes)!
One stabiliser sounds totally stupid and I'd definitely talk to the parents about taking it off asap.
Pete
Basically his theory was that the stabilisers have a problem in thatthe kid simply leans on them, and there is no incentive to balance.
THe problem is balancing and pedalling so....
Remove pedals and lower saddle.
Introduce the bike and brakes.
Let child scoot around hobby-horse like
As they become more confident they will naturally start coasting further, and using the brakes
At this stage, reintroduce the pedals as a foot rest whilst coasting
Pedalling will follow naturally
I have taught several children this way - as there is no pressure, the child develops quickly. One child went from refusing to even try to riding in less than an hour!
<b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
(Unattributed Trad.)
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
(Unattributed Trad.)
Had a chat tonight with one of the chaps I run the club with (a fellow forumer) and I think we are going to reply politely that we think either their son comes with both stabilisers or none at all - I'm genuinely not happy about having him riding on tarmac which we use for the group activities with one stabiliser - I just think it's almost inevitable he'll fall off.
Warning about well known bike shop removed at request of moderators.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
As a child learning to ride I had stabilisers, and I'm sure they only hindered my learning to balance properly.
Google the "Ballantine method"
Basically his theory was that the stabilisers have a problem in thatthe kid simply leans on them, and there is no incentive to balance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Cunobelin, that's really interesting - thanks. I'll be teaching my daughter to ride very soon and that definitely looks like the way to go. Although her big sister is so full of self confidence she just got on the bike and started pedaling. Unfortunately she hadn't got her head round the concept of brakes though...
__________________
<font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
In that Bikes steer backwards. ie to turn left you have to push the left bar forward.
(I am sure that someone will have a more technical reference, but trust me). Trikes steer by pushing the righthand handlebar forward to turn left.
So poor little Johnny has been given a bike with stabilisers. This is effectivly a trike. He learns that to turn left he has to push the right hand bar forward.
Now what happens when you take away the stabilisers is that the steering reverses. Poor Johnny doesn't know this and pushes the righthand bar forward and falls off. He is told that he can't balance (remembering that he now has to lean inward).
Eventually through trial and error he starts to push the left bar and stops falling off so often.
Until he gets a moped and finds that there is a tree with his name on it and no matter how much he steers into the corner the tree gets nearer!
So by taking off one stabiliser Johnny does not have a hope of steering unless he moves his Centre of gravity over the stabiliser to ensure that he remains a Trike. I guess that anyone observing him will think that he can't balance and is dependant on the stabiliser as he will be leaning on it so heavily.
A cycling friend of mine has a like-a-bike (or similar - it's a wooden thing from Germany) for his son, and my step-nephew who is the same age has a bike with stabilisers. The friend's son bombs around like a lunatic on his like-a-bike with his feet clear off the floor, whereas my step-nephew is limited to pootling around with his stabilisers where he exhibits no balance at all. It's pretty clear who'll be riding a 'proper' bike sans stabilisers first.
I have been shouted at before in this forum about saying this but...(deep intake of breath) Bicycles (and Motorbikes) steer diferently to Tricycles and cars.
In that Bikes steer backwards. ie to turn left you have to push the left bar forward.
(I am sure that someone will have a more technical reference, but trust me). Trikes steer by pushing the righthand handlebar forward to turn left.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Er, I think what you're describing is a pretty extreme haul turn, where pushing the left bar forewards causes the bike to fall to the left, whereupon you correct quickly. I'm certainly never aware of pushing my left bar foreward to steer left. The key difference is that bikes lean onto corners, where trikes and bikes with stabilisers don't (unless the stabilisers are so far up so as to be pointless anyway)
Hobby horse bikes are the way to go. Or the ordinary bike without pedals or stabilsers, as others above have said. It also works for teaching adults who've never learnt to ride.
What is the parents' problem with taking it off, for goodness sake? Do they not really want the kid to learn, in which case, why send him there? I thought the point of sending a kid to a class or club was for experts to teach them to do something. If they know so much, they should be teaching him...
If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
That is the problem, no many people are aware that they do this. They assume that they are turning the bars like they did on their first bike with stabilisers or trike. That is why when that bend goes wrong and you see that tree with your name on it you seem unable to do anything about it.
Many people also assume that they go around the corner by leaning it. You can make the machine change direction by just leaning it over, but I don't think that you are steering it. Try to do a turn with no hands on the handlebars. You can get around a corner but would you be able to do so with any precision?
I also suggest that you have a go on the next trike you see. You will find that the steering feels wrong, even at slow speeds.
It does sound like the hobby horse technique works though.
And well done to to Tom for running the club.
My bike produces less greenhouse gases than a Baby Elephant
My bike produces less greenhouse gases than a Baby Elephant
this allowed the bike to lean etc like a normal bike, but caught me before falling or allowed me to fall off but not have the bike come to join me.
i ride by steering / leaning the bike with my butt before catching the bars and guiding, something that may change when i get the road bike working.
It makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. If the child falls to the side without the stabiliser, then it's no different to having no stabilisers, if they fall to the side WITH, then it's no different to having two.
You've got to think of the possible reasons for this.
Is it perhaps because the parents can only afford one stabiliser - can't you have a whip-round?
Is the child in fact a secret 'twilight DH master' and lies awake waiting for his parents to go to bed, and then sneaks out to tear up the local trails, and one night when the moonlight wasn't so good, knocked one of them clean off on a tree coming out of a fast berm?
<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpathGenericPath
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpathGenericPath
They need to let you do your job and stop being such back-seat drivers.
<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpathGenericPath
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpathGenericPath
It was a framed version, but the back wheel had a single cog.
There was then a stub where the bottom bracket sits.
Once the child is used to scooting, an insert added the bottom bracket to the stub, and a chain added..... hence a bike.
<b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
(Unattributed Trad.)
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
(Unattributed Trad.)
There are 3 parts to learning to ride a bike -balance, braking and pedalling. Push a child off on a normal 2-wheeler first time out and they've got no chance, because they are trying to master all three at the same time. Stabilisers are useful in that the child gets to learn the braking and pedalling without having to worry about balancing.
Like a bikes are the way to go with learning to balance (you don't have to worry about brakes or pedalling), but the likeabike brand is ridiculously expensive. Lidl usually do their own version once a year for œ10 or œ15. We had one, our eldest learned to balance on it in about 20 minutes, and it is now working its way around his friends. All of whose parents are amazed at how quickly they balance.
Islabikes do a better version of likeabike, it's only œ75, and a 2-year old can fit it easily.
Of course there is always the traditional, cheaper, balance-learning machine. The 2-wheeled scooter. You can pick these up for œ10, and it is an easier way of learning to balance, but with much less chance of ending up on the floor.
We also found stabilisers useful on long journeys. Concentrating on balancing as well as the other functions is tiring, and it was good to be able to screw the stabilisers on when he was tired, and then we could go off on much longer rides.
And I think this whole opposite steering thing is also a red herring. It doesn't cause problems. I've never seen a child go from a trike to two wheels and fall off because of the steering. Personally, I would question it anyway. If there is any opposite lock needed, then it seems that it is only necessary to unbalance the bike into a turn, and then you steer properly.
__________________________________________________________
<font size="1">What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font id="size1">
<font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
I have actually - we had a torrid time getting my son to ride a 'proper' bike, after leaving him relying on stabilisers for far too long. Everything about riding a real bike frustrated and frightened him, and it all seemed like far too much effort in comparison to tootling around on stabilisers.
Our LBS explained to us the method that Cunobelin outlined earlier in this thread, and we had it all turned around in a couple of weeks. It was quite amazing to see - he loves cycling now and is about to join our local junior triathlon club, so a vote for the Ballantine method here.
Bren
Arch, Brightspark is right on the countersteering btw.
<font size="1">My bikes
My skates</font id="size1">
If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.
...Bikes steer backwards. ie to turn left you have to push the left bar <b>forward</b>.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Arch</i>
Er, I think what you're describing is a pretty extreme haul turn, where pushing the left bar forewards causes the bike to fall to the left, whereupon you correct quickly. I'm certainly never aware of pushing my left bar foreward to steer left. The key difference is that bikes lean onto corners, where trikes and bikes with stabilisers don't (unless the stabilisers are so far up so as to be pointless anyway)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by BentMikey</i>
Arch, Brightspark is right on the countersteering btw.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sort of, you DO push the left bar to turn left, but you're not so much pushing it <b>forward</b> so much as pushing it <b>down</b>. Apparently it's the same or even more noticeable when riding a motorbike.
<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpathGenericPath
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpathGenericPath
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Who has known a child take a much longer time to learn because they had stabilisers on their bike? I haven't.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I have actually - we had a torrid time getting my son to ride a 'proper' bike,<b> after leaving him relying on stabilisers for far too long</b>. Everything about riding a real bike frustrated and frightened him, and it all seemed like far too much effort in comparison to tootling around on stabilisers.
Our LBS explained to us the method that Cunobelin outlined earlier in this thread, and we had it all turned around in a couple of weeks. It was quite amazing to see - he loves cycling now and is about to join our local junior triathlon club, so a vote for the Ballantine method here.
Bren
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
(my bold) And that was my point. No-one is ever going to learn to balance by being left on stabilisers. But they do have their uses. And switching between 2- and 4-wheels when the child is learning really doesn't cause any problems.
__________________________________________________________
<font size="1">What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font id="size1">
<font>What we need is a new, national <b>White Bicycle Plan</b></font>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Brightspark</i>
...Bikes steer backwards. ie to turn left you have to push the left bar <b>forward</b>.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Arch</i>
Er, I think what you're describing is a pretty extreme haul turn, where pushing the left bar forewards causes the bike to fall to the left, whereupon you correct quickly. I'm certainly never aware of pushing my left bar foreward to steer left. The key difference is that bikes lean onto corners, where trikes and bikes with stabilisers don't (unless the stabilisers are so far up so as to be pointless anyway)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by BentMikey</i>
Arch, Brightspark is right on the countersteering btw.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sort of, you DO push the left bar to turn left, but you're not so much pushing it <b>forward</b> so much as pushing it <b>down</b>. Apparently it's the same or even more noticeable when riding a motorbike.
<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpathGenericPath
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
its a kind of push down push away to get the weight of the bike to heel over into the turn, then steer into it.
apparently you have to steer quite a lot right to get this thing going left