There's no accounting for Taste.....

Gary Askwith · June 2007

This is an idiom which crosses my mind quite frequently...I find myself continually baffled at what i would regard as otherwise intelligent colleagues/friends strange tastes in TV, Literature, food, fashion, Art, newspapers, vehicles, cinema.... to name but a few [:)] But then some of them have good taste in some things poor in others......
But what do we mean by 'good' and 'bad' taste?
What could be one persons low-brow is another persons high-brow
What is class and what is crass?

Is is mainly about a persons background..this aesthetics thing... is it personal subjectivity and perception differences or something deeper?
I realise words such charges as elitism or snobbishness could be hurled my way for bringing the subject up but i can't recall it ever being discussed and the subject is wide-ranging and could emcompass just about everything in everyday life

Does anyone want to try to account for 'taste'?[:)][;)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Archcp · June 2007

It's easy. Things I like are 'good taste', things I don't, aren't. [;)]

Unless you are going to stray into the realms of kitcsh, where bad taste can become good...

Saw a bright pink Stretch Hummer limo the other day. The cover on the spare wheel advertised the company - "Style Limos". Hmm, I thought, let's think about the concept of 'style', shall we....

But no doubt the people who hired it thought it was the pinnacle of style, and that my ideal luxury car, an ancient French thing with swivelly headlights and a profile like a shark, was well naff...

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

redcogs · June 2007

No prob gaz. Good taste is what i like - poor taste belongs elsewhere.

please look up to the stars.. ***

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

No prob gaz. Good taste is what i like - poor taste belongs elsewhere.

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, it is a Communist tradition to dictate what is acceptable and what is not.

A free market allows people to make their own choices - no matter how ghastly they are!

Unkraut · June 2007

Isn't bad taste usually considered something offensive or morally dubious, like a Casper Jarrot joke about the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster, to pick a horrendously dated example. Good taste, on the other hand does seem very subjective, relating to what we enjoy. It has less to do with whether something is good or bad. I wonder if some of the good in this context relates to the care and skill gone into making whatever it is we find good.
But it is amazing what some people enjoy, and you find yourself quoting your 'saying' to yourself with a bemused look on your face.

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

We're talking two kinds of taste here.

1. Taste (as in 'aesthetics') has a very large subjective component, but it isn't entirely subjective. You can learn to like, or at least appreciate things you initially would consider not to your taste, like thrash metal (often very intricate and skillful guitar playing), Japanese cuisine ('umami' anyone?) or non-representational art.

And, as George Bernard Shaw said, you should try everything once, except incest and folk-dancing...

2. As for 'taste' as in 'acceptability,' we move into the realm of politics...

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Melvil · June 2007

Come on, lets face it, most people's supposedly independent tastes are dictated to them by the media.

******************************************************************************
See Baby Elephants and more at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47331519@N00/

il_principe · June 2007

A friend of mine (a university educated Chartered surveyor) genuinely enjoys watching the O.C (a TV programme for teenage girls), Big Brother and Ugly Betty - channel 4 garbage the lot of it. I just don't get it, he's a clever bloke but finds this bilge entertaining... Mind you he has no sense of style either and thinks paying anything over œ30 for an item of clothing is madness - as a result his work attire looks awful - cheap, ill-fitting shiny suits etc. The thing is, he earns good money so he can afford to dress well, even if it is just for the sake of his clients! Even more annoyingly, he is constantly trying to take the wee out of other people's clothing when he looks awful himself.

My Best Bike

Joe Sacco · June 2007

With clothes you do largely get what you pay for. A œ100 shirt will look a lot nicer than a œ15 shirt. The better materials used can be clearly seen. I get lots of comments on the shirts I wear, whereas other people don't.

But it all depends if you want to pay œ100 for a shirt I suppose. To me, I like looking my best and am happy to pay for the quality and style that goes with it. Others (most people!) clearly don't see it as important which is fair enough.

simoncp · June 2007

A useful way of telling if something is good taste is if it needs to be subsidised by everyone, even those too vulgar to realise good taste. Opera, ballet and art galleries are examples. Hardly anyone is interested in these things, but we have to pay for them because they are good for us even though we don't realise it, and because the few who do enjoy these things don't like paying full price for their pleasures like the rest of us.

Gary Askwith · June 2007

To pick up on something Melvil mentioned, our perception of Taste, good or Bad is influenced by lots of social/environment factors
According to the sociologist Bourdieu whose main argument is based on the claim that individual tastes and preferences are socially produced, individual tastes are shaped by certain aspects of social practices and position within society.
People aspire towards "higher" cultural forms and produce their identities accordingly - they want to be associated with those who are considered to be more developed intellectually and artistically and therefore tend to consume corresponding cultural products. In this sense the notion of taste is closely linked to consumption and consumerism.....which are heavily inflenced and promoted by the media

I'm not sure what his diagnosis of the alternative: the media promoted celebrity culture would be?....that seems to encougage by emulation people to aspire towards 'lower' cultural forms, a form of inverted snobbery...which is also closely linked to consumerism[:)][xx(]

Judgments of aesthetic value seem to rely on our ability to discriminate at a sensory level....but can people discriminate equally?.... what influence does age, experience and background have on this ability?

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Rigid Raider · June 2007

Taste is closely linked to quality. Read Robert M. Pirsig on Quality - he of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Global TH1.5 Ti hardtail.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

A useful way of telling if something is good taste is if it needs to be subsidised by everyone, even those too vulgar to realise good taste. Opera, ballet and art galleries are examples. Hardly anyone is interested in these things, but we have to pay for them because they are good for us even though we don't realise it, and because the few who do enjoy these things don't like paying full price for their pleasures like the rest of us.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Whether those of us who appreciate high culture are willing to pay its full cost or not, I can think of no objection to a tax on philistinism.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

With clothes you do largely get what you pay for. A œ100 shirt will look a lot nicer than a œ15 shirt.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Perhaps (whatever "nicer" is), but if it's one of those shirts commonly worn with suits, won't its horrible collar still strangle you?

I don't think I could bring myself to do any job which dictated suit wearing.

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

A useful way of telling if something is good taste is if it needs to be subsidised by everyone, even those too vulgar to realise good taste. Opera, ballet and art galleries are examples. Hardly anyone is interested in these things, but we have to pay for them because they are good for us even though we don't realise it, and because the few who do enjoy these things don't like paying full price for their pleasures like the rest of us.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

This has my vote as one of the best posts of the month, even if I don't fully agree with it!

Gary Askwith · June 2007

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

gbyers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

A useful way of telling if something is good taste is if it needs to be subsidised by everyone, even those too vulgar to realise good taste. Opera, ballet and art galleries are examples. Hardly anyone is interested in these things, but we have to pay for them because they are good for us even though we don't realise it, and because the few who do enjoy these things don't like paying full price for their pleasures like the rest of us.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

This has my vote as one of the best posts of the month, even if I don't fully agree with it!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Whereas the pastimes of the masses are merely subject to market forces. So as footballers' wages top the œ1m a year mark so up go the admission prices.

On the "no accounting for..." theme, I know many well educated intelligent adults who think the Harry Potter books are well written novels suitable for grown ups. Whereas even my children know they're over long, poorly strcutured banal door stops.

________________________________________________________________________________
Anyone expecting to see a witty and imaginitive signature here obviously hasn't seen my username.

ChrisKH · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers
Whereas the pastimes of the masses are merely subject to market forces. So as footballers' wages top the œ1m a year mark so up go the admission prices.

On the "no accounting for..." theme, I know many well educated intelligent adults who think the Harry Potter books are well written novels suitable for grown ups. Whereas even my children know they're over long, poorly strcutured banal door stops.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Crikey, I bet bedtime in your household is a barrel of fun. [;)] I think my kids can just about manage Horrid Henry.

Baby elephants are so last year, darling.

gbyers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ChrisKH

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers
Whereas the pastimes of the masses are merely subject to market forces. So as footballers' wages top the œ1m a year mark so up go the admission prices.

On the "no accounting for..." theme, I know many well educated intelligent adults who think the Harry Potter books are well written novels suitable for grown ups. Whereas even my children know they're over long, poorly strcutured banal door stops.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well the readings did interfere with their finals...[:)]

Crikey, I bet bedtime in your household is a barrel of fun. [;)] I think my kids can just about manage Horrid Henry.

Baby elephants are so last year, darling.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

________________________________________________________________________________
Anyone expecting to see a witty and imaginitive signature here obviously hasn't seen my username.

Tourist Tony · June 2007

Damn. Got into this thread too late to snipe (with style and panache) at Joe...
:-)

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers

Whereas even my children know they're over long, poorly strcutured banal door stops.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Did your 7 year old briefly look up from reading Beowulf in the original, to tell you this?

Unkraut · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tourist Tony

Damn. Got into this thread too late to snipe (with style and panache) at Joe...
:-)

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With flair and panache, my son. [:)]

Unknown · June 2007

Dali? Oh dear me, no...

Pollock? utter pollocks in the con-man Damien (hawk, spit) Hirst mode (he got an E in his Art A-level, you know)

The Singing Detective? the television equivalent of Shakespeare

The X Files? waste of yet another hour of consciousness...

Pelleas et Melisande? not my cup of tea, but undeniably proper music

Gotterdammerung? I go along with Rossini: "Wagner has lovely moments, but awful quarters of an hour"

Holidays: Britain, naturally; northern Europe for a different cultural stimulus; New Zealand if your conscience can accomodate the carbon emissions

Bikes: http://www.challengebikes.com/html/inde ... e=fujinsl2

My favourite spaghetti Western isn't a Western at all: http://www.nzvideos.org/utu.html

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NickM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

With clothes you do largely get what you pay for. A œ100 shirt will look a lot nicer than a œ15 shirt.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Perhaps (whatever "nicer" is), but if it's one of those shirts commonly worn with suits, won't its horrible collar still strangle you?

I don't think I could bring myself to do any job which dictated suit wearing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes they are shirts worn with suits. I wouldn't want to do a job where you don't where a suit as I love suits. A high quality suit, shirt and shoes are the height of good taste

Gary Askwith · June 2007

Suits?
yeah real classy

[url][/url]http://www.marplebridgeassociation.org.uk/photographs/delboy.jpg[url][/url]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

gbyers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gbyers

Whereas even my children know they're over long, poorly strcutured banal door stops.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Did your 7 year old briefly look up from reading Beowulf in the original, to tell you this?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Another Harry Potter fan who is a student of Anglo Saxon literature, amazing how many of them there are out there! [;)]

No they weren't (7) and didn't (look up from........)

________________________________________________________________________________
Anyone expecting to see a witty and imaginitive signature here obviously hasn't seen my username.

papercorn2000 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

A useful way of telling if something is good taste is if it needs to be subsidised by everyone, even those too vulgar to realise good taste. Opera, ballet and art galleries are examples. Hardly anyone is interested in these things, but we have to pay for them because they are good for us even though we don't realise it, and because the few who do enjoy these things don't like paying full price for their pleasures like the rest of us.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fair enough, but if we allow our lives to be dictated by nothing but market forces, we end up living in Los Angeles and watching endless reality TV on Sky!

NickM, I didn't know that about Pollock but I have to say that I like looking at his pictures!

God told me to skin you alive.
http://www.ekroadclub.co.uk/

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

Suits?
yeah real classy

[url][/url]http://www.marplebridgeassociation.org.uk/photographs/delboy.jpg[url][/url]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You obviously missed the high and the quality.

I am however in agreement with all of your class/crass examples with the exception of the Dali/Pollock. Neither of those are class. You need a good Bacon in there.

babyjebus · June 2007

If it's about anything, taste is about self-awareness, and the ability to make considered choices. Someone's taste might stink in the eyes of others, but if it's sincere and consistent then it at least exists. Quality is only part of it- a man in a suit is just a man in a suit, even if it's a decent suit. But stand him on a stage and give him a microphone (and hopefully some talent) and he's a performer.
People who drink Jacob's Creek and read Harry Potter just aren't trying- they have no taste, not even bad. And bad taste beats no taste any day.

Gary Askwith · June 2007

Judgments of aesthetic value seem to rely on our ability to discriminate at a sensory level....but can people discriminate equally?.... what influence does age, experience and background have on this ability?

In an attempt to answer my own question I would guess that personal experience has a lot to do with taste, after all if all you have experienced either is the best or worse 'offerings' then subsequent judgements are invariably skewed from that median...and how do we know we have yet experienced the best or worse?
This is where age comes in...stands to reason the longer you have been around the more cultural 'samples' you will have tried the longer you opinion has a chance to 'refine' itself
The problem is as I see it not many people are interested or motivated enough to bother...something to do with frantic lifestyles I guess, too many are content to wallow in self imposed mediocrity. rigidly conforming to stereotypes or satisfied with the experiences & certainties life offered them up to the age X
I personally believe 'taste' should be a journey, an evolution...this requires an obligation to be open-minded and willingness to change opinions...and I'm also thinking of political taste here [;)][}:)]

I had a colleague, years ago, bright but nerdish and he was into stamp-collecting...yes, thats what i thought stamp collecting [xx(][xx(]...anyway one day he brought some of his collection in...in the space of 1/2 hour I had changed my pre-conceptions, he had stamps fom all over the world, fiji, Madagascar tongo etc and they were amazing miniature works of art...suddenly i could see the interest, not my cup 'o tea but i had respect for something I would have dismissed without a thought
Lesson learned, mind opened and receptive [:)]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

A useful way of telling if something is good taste is if it needs to be subsidised by everyone, even those too vulgar to realise good taste. Opera, ballet and art galleries are examples. Hardly anyone is interested in these things, but we have to pay for them because they are good for us even though we don't realise it, and because the few who do enjoy these things don't like paying full price for their pleasures like the rest of us.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh, go on, Simon, you know you want to... Go on.. 'B'... There, I've given you a start, go on, 'B'... What comes next?

In your ideal world then, these arts wouldn't be subsidised, and no one from an ordinary or poor background would even have the chance to find out if they were interested or not... And those of us who are, would instead just have to know our place and watch Big Brother all day.

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

There's no accounting for Taste.....

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