Which Groupset Range?

DavidTQ · June 2007

OK looking towards my first road bike, looking at the ranges of groupsets available. Will be sticking with Shimano as thats what I know for MTB Hybrid use.

As far as I understand it price wise the ranges go sora - tiagra- 105 - ultegra - dura ace.

I realise that weight savings are probably in the same order. However what about durability for all weather use? high mileage use? and gear shift quality?

Is dura ace only of use to racers or is it the best for a fast commute as well but overly expensive? If I want the best suited kit for a commuting road bike and money isnt an issue which range should I be looking at.

The 12 year old boy in me says dura-ace cos its shiney and its the best, but if its only meant for race use needs cleaning every 10 miles and will collapse in 6 months its certainly not for me.

Im looking for something that perhaps shifts better under load than my current cheapy hybrid, something with a triple and a 10 speed so I can get a 12-27 rear cassette. If Im spending big money to get smoothness I want reliability I want to be buying something that with good maintenance will last years without needing expensive bits replaceing.

Whats the best group set to look out for, for my uses? Money isnt a big problem I can afford dura-ace if it is the best for my use but I dont want to find im buying something that is particularly unsuited to my use of the bike.

Meds1962 · June 2007

Durability is down to the conditions you use it in and how well you maintain it. You'll see posts on here from people who have run both entry level kit and top notch kit for years with no serious problems because they've looked after it.
There was a good review of the latest tiagra in a recent c+ and this would probably suffice for your needs.
105 is entry level for racing and is very good, Ultegra is smoother and slightly lighter.
I haven't used dura ace but obviously this is top shimano spec with price to reflect it, probably well ott for what you need but what the heck if money is no object. If you're not diy maintenance minded, just get it serviced regularly by your lbs.

O na bawn i fel LA

Bianchi Boy · June 2007

Like most things, you gwt what you pay for. I would prefer Campag myself, but it you go for Shimano I wouldn't go for anything less that 105.

Celeste is best

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z38/ ... ion002.jpg
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gavintc · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bianchi Boy

Like most things, you gwt what you pay for. I would prefer Campag myself, but it you go for Shimano I wouldn't go for anything less that 105.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I concur. I have a Dura Ace / Ultegra mix on my best bike and Tiagra on my winter bike. The difference is noticeable and the smooth action linked to a swifter change makes the good bike just much more fun. If you can afford it get at least 105 10 speed and keep it clean. It need not take much more that 30 mins a week to clean the chain/cassette etc claen.

Unknown · June 2007

105 would be where i would start. Should last plenty long enough and wouldn't be too expensive when replacing cassettes and chains

Mleh Mleh Mleh

ceedeecp · June 2007

Ultegra won't cost much more than 105 these days. have a look at this. http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=11796

keith57 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DavidTQ

I'm looking for something that perhaps shifts better under load than my current cheapy hybrid, something with a triple and a 10 speed so I can get a 12-27 rear cassette. If Im spending big money to get smoothness I want reliability I want to be buying something that with good maintenance will last years without needing expensive bits replaceing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a compact Dura-Ace setup. Rear is 12-27, front 50-34. So you don't need a triple just to get the 12-27.

Big Tcp · June 2007

Sora is perfectly OK and probably more durable than Tiagra or 105. The chains, being 8 speed, will last longer and Sora is fairly cheap to replace if anything does wear out. I would say 105 and above is for racers, so is OTT if you're just pottering about.

DavidTQ · June 2007

Quite enjoy the bike maintenance so regular cleaning isnt a problem. I will probably be getting a triple though because of the sheer amount of hills in the local area Including a couple of killer ones that I have to do every day (currently use a 34t rear for those two hills - not sure jumping up to a compact would be a good idea for that) theres also one that I have ambitions to climb, but not sure if its actually possible to cycle up that one [:D]

If dura-ace does give smoother shifting than tiagra then it would probably be what I would go for, just wanted to check I wasnt looking at something only meant for racing use. I know with cars some of the stuff we do for competition makes for a more enjoyable road car and other bits just make things a pain in the rear on the road. Wasnt sure if Dura-Ace was generally better for road use or if it was race only equipment.

jw31 · June 2007

I'll be looking at a Campag setup on my bike next year to see what all the fuss is about, but I can't fault the 105 groupset 52/12-27 (feels very solid and pretty smooth) I've had no problems in 900+ miles but I do look after the bike. I originally planned on a cheaper groupset but as my riding's progressed I'm glad I've got something that I can hopefully race with or at least do some serious training. Also if you spend a bit more than you should it's more incentive to keep the bike ship-shape.

BTW I'm new to road cycling too so no experience of other groupsets to compare with the 105. But pretty chuffed with it personally..[:)]

il_principe · June 2007

I'd stick with 105 or Ultegra. Dura-Ace seems like overkill for a commuter. What frame are you going to be sticking the groupset on, again Dura-Ace on a œ500 frame seems a bit daft. If you are going for a high end roadbike then go for Dura Ace, if not then it's overkill really. Oh and don't dismiss campy, if your LBS has any campy equipped bikes in stock then give them a test ride and see which system you prefer, if you have money to spend then it's worth exploring other options.

My Best Bike

DavidTQ · June 2007

Im not really interested in a few grams of components here and there (apart from wheels) but what I am ultimately interested in is quality of the shift and durability. Commuting is also my leisure time, I ENJOY my cycling, If either 105 or ultegra shift every bit as well as dura ace but weigh 200g more then Im all for that and would happily save the money [:D], if the shifting is noticeably better on dura-ace I would consider the price difference well spent. I want to make my ride as pleasant and enjoyable as is possible.

Having ditched the car completely now I can easily justify spending money on the bike, and best of all I have the green light from the wife, who believes it worth spending the money now to get a long lasting enjoyable bike, convincing her I need to upgrade components at a later date will be FAR more difficult [:D] The price difference between Ultegra and Dura-ace is what I save from just one months cycling instead of car owning! If that money buys an extra 5 seconds a journey for 5 years its wasted money, if it buys a discernably nicer more enjoyable ride for 5 years its worth every penny. Ive felt the difference between sora and tiagra, and felt there was still more to come but dont know if priorities change at dura ace level from shift quality to weight saving?

Frame wise im going to be going for comfort, Ive got my eye on some of the Giant SCR and TCR carbon frames. Having tried the Giant SCR2.0 I felt it fit like a glove, it felt really comfortable to cycle, (far better than the old aluminium horizontal top bar peugeot road bike Ive tried) but I felt it wanted better gears and better wheels, and probably some better brake pads. Long term would probably get a carbon frame once Ive found one I know feels right for me. Because im not time trialling or racing I dont feel the need for the ultimate performance at the expense of comfort. Comfort and enjoyment are my main priorities. I want a bike that "feels" spot on.

As far as campy goes, Ive got one more LBS in a nearby town to try out but so far the only LBS ive found willing to let you test ride the bikes is 20 miles away and I have had some issues with the quality of their bike mechanics (messed up my gear selection twice) so dont feel overly inclined to make the journey over there again. I havent seen campy offered with triples? a triple is I feel important to me on my hilly route. Is campy about weight saving or shift quality or both?

Will be building the bike myself, having done a few jobs on the current bike myself -sorting out the professionals mistakes. Ive been looking through my bike maintenance manual and it really doesnt look anywhere near as hard or complicated as when I was building my own rally cars, and the ultimate luxury or being able to work in my living room, bliss [:D]

Unknown · June 2007

Sora is pikey, Tiagra is functional, 105 is smooth, Ultegra is better, Dura-Ace is overkill.

I'd go for the Ultegra as a treat if you can afford it.

TdG

JWSurrey · June 2007

I've ridden 2006/7 Ultegra, 105, Campag. Veloce, Xenon, and SRAM - From memory it was Rival.

Don't forget Ultegra-S too. Something about it in this month's C+

From reading other threads, I am led to believe that the top spec. Campag. (now here's where I put on my tin hat) may be more weight optimised over reliability, however they all seem to also have posts where they've lasted for years.
I've not seen any posts on DA being optimised for weight over reliability.

Stats for weight on Shimano seem more difficult to get hold of below Ultegra. Campag. are quite comprehensive in their catalogues (downloadable on web).

At the moment, Shimano offer hollow axle technology for their triples, whereas Campag. don't, so to change to triple from compact would involve an extra component (and weight uplift).

Shimano don't sell compacts linked to their groupset (other than soon-to-be-launched Ultegra-S).
I looked at the R-600 compact (I gather it's aligned to Tiagra level)
R-700 - More Ultegra, with machined chainrings.
Ultegra-S must sit above it in the pecking order.

Not sure if you get the all important torque settings when you buy a groupset.

Unsure if you can get to London, however Condor have a good range of demonstrators, though they are always very busy, so call ahead.

My bikes?
Veloce Compact with 13-29 and med. cage deureilleur.
105 with R-700 compact with 12-27 and what looks like a long cage.

Veloce has been ridden since Jan 1 and still looks/rides like new.
105 - Too new to tell, but has survived initial 120 miles last week!

Shimano - much smoother shifting. I prefer the Campag. levers and looks.
I thought the Shimano had more drive noise, however I now put this down to the frame on which it is fitted amplifying the noise more, since I've seen other similar framed Campag. bikes that are noisier.

kmahony · June 2007

I moved from Sora to Ultegra and difference is huge.
Not sure when the new Ultegra is out, but it looks very smart and is probably ideal for your upgrade.

If it wasn't for hangovers, I'd ride everyday.

nun · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DavidTQ

OK looking towards my first road bike, looking at the ranges of groupsets available. Will be sticking with Shimano as thats what I know for MTB \ Hybrid use.

As far as I understand it price wise the ranges go sora - tiagra- 105 - ultegra - dura ace.

I realise that weight savings are probably in the same order. However what about durability for all weather use? high mileage use? and gear shift quality?

Is dura ace only of use to racers or is it the best for a fast commute as well but overly expensive? If I want the best suited kit for a commuting road bike and money isnt an issue which range should I be looking at.

The 12 year old boy in me says dura-ace cos its shiney and its the best, but if its only meant for race use needs cleaning every 10 miles and will collapse in 6 months its certainly not for me.

Im looking for something that perhaps shifts better under load than my current cheapy hybrid, something with a triple and a 10 speed so I can get a 12-27 rear cassette. If Im spending big money to get smoothness I want reliability I want to be buying something that with good maintenance will last years without needing expensive bits replaceing.

Whats the best group set to look out for, for my uses? Money isnt a big problem I can afford dura-ace if it is the best for my use but I dont want to find im buying something that is particularly unsuited to my use of the bike.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Go with 105 or Ultegra, anything less is "tinny", but the Dura-Ace is probably not worth the extra cost.

However, don't limit yourself to just Shimano, there's lots of nice stuff out there that is better value and works as well or better. Look ate Tektro brakes, TA rings and cranks (expensive but nice) SRAM chains and derailleurs, White Industries, Phil Wood hubs, and there's lots of great cranks out there

DavidTQ · June 2007

Thats confirmed that I can save my self the cost of dura-ace then, will definetely look towards 105 \ ultegra level kit. Thanks for all the responses, dont want to waste money on components where I wont get a benefit, and not having tried the high level kit its very usefull to get the help from you guys.

Ste_S · June 2007

From my own experience, Sora is pretty poor and not worth bothering with. The shifters are ok, but the position of the thumb lever make it a pain shifting in the drops.

Tiagra is perfectly functional if you don't want to spend 105 plus money.

top_bhoy · June 2007

Have you not tried Campag? Don't want to start a Campag/Shimano flaming contest but you may find the Campag suits you better. You won't know until you've tried. There are definite differences between the two brands in looks, feel and actual use. I've not much experience of MTB/Hybrids but I'd guess those Shimano components will be a very different beast to those on a road bike.

This is my bike:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure002.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure003.jpg

Unknown · June 2007

i know that this has been said and i risk the wrath of others but you must try campag, go for something above veloce, (centaur, chorus, record in ascending order of price). triples are available (my fiance has just bought a veloce triple equipped condor and i much prefer it to the 105 on my tourer as long as you avoid the higher end stuff (record) it should last a very long time (and it is all repairable unlike shimaNo) i have the 8spd campag veloce on my road bike and it is still going strong after unknown milage and abuse.

having said that try both before deciding as they both feel different, my fiance tried both and went for the campag because it "felt right"

Cf

Meds1962 · June 2007

Please no one rise to the bait of another boring shimano v campag episode.

O na bawn i fel LA

Ste_S · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by custom-freak
shimaNo
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do you spell Microsoft with a $ ?

Big Tcp · June 2007

What is it they say? - Campag wears in, Shimano wears out!

My son has Dura-ace on his race bike and has so far broken 3 STI shifters in the last year. You can't repair them, so it's a new shifter each time (and you can't buy them singly, so have to buy a pair and sell the one you don't need - don't worry though, there'll be plenty of customers for it, who've also broken an STI).

I've been riding Campag for 10 years and have never broken an Ergo lever.

Edited for typos

chas38 · June 2007

105

craigwend · June 2007

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/con ... upset.html

ultegra for value & qaulity

sram just to wind up the silly 'debaters'

Space to rent '......................................................' reasonable offers only.

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top_bhoy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Meds1962

Please no one rise to the bait of another boring shimano v campag episode.

O na bawn i fel LA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for your pearl of wisdom - it's been noted. However, can 'forummers' now no longer make a suggestion to raise awareness of other options and alternatives previously unconsidered and which may or may not be more suitable without such childish nonesense from self appointed forum police. Campag V Shimano wars are a thing of yesteryear on here - this is a far more mature forum now[}:)]

This is my bike:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure002.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure003.jpg

DavidTQ · June 2007

I wont rule out campag and I will try it out before spending out on a new groupset.

richardjallen · June 2007

I had the previous version of Tiagra on a commuter and it was fine except for shifting the front chainring while ascending. It was not much good at that. But then an updated Tiagra has recently been released. On my new road bike I went for 105 over Ultegra because Ultegra did not appear much different on paper except for the œ80 extra that turned into œ200 once on bike from a LBS. I think I did the right thing there. Now that Ultegra-SL has come out I might have gone for that instead.

You could always mix parts. For instance the Dura-Ace cassette has some Ti sprockets but I believe Ti is a soft metal that wears away quicker and the cassette costs œ80 a pop so it seems a waste for a commuter. I had an Ultegra cassette once but it didn't look impressive or much different to the 105 one I have now. Do you shift the front chainring much? You could put a higher level one in or not if you don't use it.

oldwelshman · June 2007

Who says it Shimano wears?
I just sole 600ax brakes 23 years old, perfect nick, for œ30, also the old ax hubs.
I currently have 105 on one bike and dura ace on another but to be honest the difference in performance is negligable. Some people on here must be so sensative to notice them !!
It is also possible to get individual shifters, I have seen loads on ebay from dealers in USA.

Campag is wayyyy too expensive for what they offer.
I would probably go for the new ultegra group set which actually looks lighter than the dura ace and only sightly more expensive than old ultegra, see cycling weekly.
But then again most non racing cyclists I now are overweight so saving on components is waste of money [8D]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big T

What is it they say? - Campag wears in, Shimano wears out!

My son has Dura-ace on his race bike and has so far broken 3 STI shifters in the last year. You can't repair them, so it's a new shifter each time (and you can't buy them singly, so have to buy a pair and sell the one you don't need - don't worry though, there'll be plenty of customers for it, who've also broken an STI).

I've been riding Campag for 10 years and have never broken an Ergo lever.

Edited for typos
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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My winter and summer bike pics

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Ste_S · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldwelshman

Who says it Shimano wears?
I just sole 600ax brakes 23 years old, perfect nick, for œ30, also the old ax hubs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have "Golden Arrow" 105 front and rear derailleur's on one of my bikes and they're both still going strong, and they're 20-25 years old.

Meds1962 · June 2007

Thanks for your pearl of wisdom - it's been noted. However, can 'forummers' now no longer make a suggestion to raise awareness of other options and alternatives previously unconsidered and which may or may not be more suitable without such childish nonesense from self appointed forum police. Campag V Shimano wars are a thing of yesteryear on here - this is a far more mature forum now

Top Bhoy - please enlighten me about where I said don't consider campag? I've no problem with anyone's choice of components and have bikes kitted out with both brands. Just don't start another boring............too many posts are one sided and subjective and it's boring because the same (often derogatory),comments get thrown in.

O na bawn i fel LA

Which Groupset Range?

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