The Official UK Smoking Ban Thread!

snorri · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bobbyp

If I'm out with smoking friends we go somewhere that allows smoking, if I'm out with people who don't smoke we go somewhere that doesn't. Works very nicely.
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It might work for you, but for the vast majority, these options just do not exist.
You will like the ban when it comes, it's wonderful[;)][:)]

gavintc · June 2007

I have to agree with snorri, the smoking ban has been a revelation in Scotland. It is so pleasant to eat a meal without someone blowing smoke at you, to have a drink with people who are not smoking, to come home and your clothes smelling normal. I have just come back from a pub in Merchant City watching the England game - no smells, my 5 colleagues did not smoke and we had a great evening. Believe me, when it comes to England you will realise what the rest of UK has enjoyed. England is just so behind the times these days.

Two sheds · June 2007

Well I can offer some comfort to the sociable. I was in New York recently, which has had a similar ban for some years now, and had no difficulty finding bars which took a relaxed attitude to the ban. This in a country infamously keen on enforcement.

On a related note, when did smoking in churches become a problem? Because apparently, any enclosed public space will have to display 'No smoking' signs, and this is to include churches[V] Why?

Put a hump in your back
Shake your sacroiliac
And ride on

Saddle bum · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

The ban will help people give up smoking. This is a Good Thing.
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Have to disagree there. Smoking is a method of culling out many of the surplus population who would other wise live longer and be a drag on the country's finances.

So long as I am not in their proximity, I could not give a toss.

Molon Labe.

Ashtrayhead · June 2007

It's not all doom and gloom! Some pubs still value their customers:-

http://www.shepherd-neame.co.uk/news/release.php?id=593

'Don't Walk, Don't Smoke, Don't Drink', Don't Think'

BigBren · June 2007

I'm looking forward to the ban. Smoking is a vile, intrusive habit that impinges on the rights, comfort and freedom of everyone around you. If you want to smoke (which I did myself for many years until October 06) then feck off to a grimy corner somewhere and indulge in your grotty little form of self-harm without bothering anyone else.

Bren

Rhythm Thief · June 2007

Blimey Bren, there's nowt worse than an ex smoker.[:D] If everyone smoked rollies like wot I do, there wouldn't be so much of a problem cos rollies smell nice.
Seriously, as others have said, the ban's been in force in Wales for a couple of months and it's made the pubs much nicer to go into (and I speak as an unapologetic smoker). If I fancy a fag, I go outside, but generally I can manage without for an evening. If it means I smoke a bit less then it's not a bad thing.

________________________
I'm the national treasure, and I hate noise.
My fixie
My two main modes of transport

bobbyp · June 2007

So we've got two people saying the ban will probably be enforced in a "flexible way" in some places. Surely that means there was an argument for allowing some movement within the legislation.

Should we always the views of the majority at the expense of a minority? Or should society recognise that different people have differents wants and needs and do its best to encompass all points of view? Do we really want everything legislated so that the country is entirely identikit and bland or should we embrace difference? (I say this as a non-driving cyclist but thats another topic:))

rothbook · June 2007

Pub gardens can be lovely, my local's spent quite a bit and made an amazing outdoor space.

Plus, these new LCD TVs can be encased in alluminium and bolted to the OUTSIDE wall of the pub so smokers who are footie fans don't miss out.

papercorn2000 · June 2007

I think there will be a good deal less "flexibility" once licensing boards have had a say in the matter!

God told me to skin you alive.
http://www.ekroadclub.co.uk/

gavintc · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bobbyp

So we've got two people saying the ban will probably be enforced in a "flexible way" in some places. Surely that means there was an argument for allowing some movement within the legislation.

Should we always the views of the majority at the expense of a minority? Or should society recognise that different people have differents wants and needs and do its best to encompass all points of view? Do we really want everything legislated so that the country is entirely identikit and bland or should we embrace difference? (I say this as a non-driving cyclist but thats another topic:))
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I think the earlier comment on peeing in the swimming pool was spot on. It is not the same as other lifestyle choices as it impacts so much on others. In addition, from my Scottish experience, there is no flexibility. Indeed, the other customers in a pub/restaurant police this themselves.

My prediction is that the English will have more problems with this law than the Celtic nations who have mostly embraced the benefits and have moved on. It is not an issue up here and on a recent visit to N Ireland, I did not notice anyone smoking inside.

bobbyp · June 2007

But if the pool was owned by somebody who wanted to provide a pool to pee in and used by people who all enjoying swimming in pee should they be allowed to?

Informed and consenting adults undertaking legal activities who want somewhere to meet. How can you argue that should be illegal?

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

So we've got two people saying the ban will probably be enforced in a "flexible way" in some places. Surely that means there was an argument for allowing some movement within the legislation.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've not seen the law being flouted since the ban came in to force in Scotland.

Maybe we are just more law abiding [:D]

__________________

If it doesn't fit, force it
__________________

papercorn2000 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bobbyp

But if the pool was owned by somebody who wanted to provide a pool to pee in and used by people who all enjoying swimming in pee should they be allowed to?

Informed and consenting adults undertaking legal activities who want somewhere to meet. How can you argue that should be illegal?
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[:D][:D]FWIW, I agree that private clubs that allow smoking and are set up to that end is entirely legit.

God told me to skin you alive.
http://www.ekroadclub.co.uk/

Steven Martin · June 2007

Since the ban came in up here I have not witnessed a single occurrance of the law being flouted. I have to admit that this has amazed me, I had thought that some of the less salubrious establishments would not bother enforcing. Even when driving through the rougher areas of the cities, the smokers are huddled at each pub door.
I hope that you have as little trouble with the ban in England that we have had in Scotland.
Interestingly, a study on the lung function of bar staff showed a significant improvement just two months after the ban came into force.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tay ... 037035.stm

Landslide · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Two sheds

On a related note, when did smoking in churches become a problem? Because apparently, any enclosed public space will have to display 'No smoking' signs, and this is to include churches[V] Why?
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I remember myself and fellow members of the church choir being enveloped in choking clouds of incense on a fairly regular basis. Did our singing no good at all...

Gary Askwith · June 2007

To perpetuate tobacco addiction, cigarette manufacturers have also boosted the amount of nicotine in tobacco and modified cigarette designs to increase the number of puffs per cigarette. Harvard School of Public Health researchers found that the amount of nicotine that smokers typically consumed per cigarette, regardless of brand, rose by an average of 1.6 percent per year between 1998 and 2005 across all the major cigarette market categories (mentholated, non-mentholated, full-flavor, light, ultralight, etc.). This is an increase of 11 percent in the amount of nicotine per cigarette over a seven-year period. The higher drug levels make it harder for smokers to quit.

Why do you smoke now?
You have been smoking for a while and you have matured. Now you know that smoking has not made you smarter, or cooler, or sexier. Smoking has not helped you to achieve your goals. Your accomplishments have been made in spite of smoking, but you are more aware that your health suffers. You can tell by your burning eyes, your hacking cough, and the phlegm in your throat. So, why do you still smoke? Most people continue smoking out of habit. They light a cigarette without even thinking. But sometimes people smoke under specific situations as a kind of ritual. Associating activities with smoking establishes Pavlovian reflexes. Pavlovian reflexes are named after Dr. Ivan Pavlov who was able to make his dogs salivate in the absence of food by just ringing a bell that had been associated with the dog's feeding time. In the same way, activities that you have associated with smoking, such as drinking coffee, will act as triggers. The mere sight of a cup of coffee will cause you to reach for your cigarettes without any conscious thought. Seeing friends smoking cigarettes, watching movies where the actors smoke, or the smell of cigarette smoke may trigger the psychological desire to smoke. Researchers have found that smokers with a damaged insula, a region of the brain linked to emotion and feelings, quit smoking easily and immediately. The study provides direct evidence that addiction to nicotine in tobacco smoke takes control of some of the neural circuits in the brain.

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

Mosschops2 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

To perpetuate tobacco addiction, cigarette manufacturers have also boosted the amount of nicotine in tobacco and modified cigarette designs to increase the number of puffs per cigarette. 

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Interesting debates - the "is nicotine addictive" and "is smoking / passive smoking carcinogenic".

I worked in the tobacco industry for several years (more than 5 or 6 I think!) and at that time, there had been no truely scientific proof that smoking caused cancer, and when the CEO of Philip Morris effectively declared that it did, it was a massive shock to the industry. Not that it did in itself, of course, but that the tobacco industry was prepared to take the blame. Which resulted in an $800 billion payout starting in 1998. In the US only of course. Irony is the wrong word, but along with smoking levels falling (possible in part due to masses of cash being spent on education), the continuing smokers are the ones who are paying this debt - not the tobacco companies themselves, which are largely, as rich and powerful as they were before (Philliph Morris group Altria turns over best part of 20 billion dollars)......

Have you ever tried pressing Alt+F4 ??

Tourist Tony · June 2007

How apt. A thread about a drug addiction is invaded by a spambot probably advertising imitation drugs....

No, I am not clicking on the links!

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Keith Oates · June 2007

This cheepie guy can only be discribed as an irritating nuisance, perhaps Admin can find a way of blocking him/her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ride Daily, Keep Healthy

Tourist Tony · June 2007

Already flagged the spambot.

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Tourist Tony · June 2007

At least the African banking scam one was funny! What happened to the one a year or two back that was mailing us in French about secret mind control?

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Kourosism · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ashtrayhead

It's not all doom and gloom! Some pubs still value their customers:-

http://www.shepherd-neame.co.uk/news/release.php?id=593

'Don't Walk, Don't Smoke, Don't Drink', Don't Think'
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This bugs me a little, not a lot, but a little. One thing that has always got my goat about smoke-free areas is that invariably smokers huddle at the entrance/exit, meaning you have to walk through the cancer-ridden filth to get where you want to be.

Now the gardens become the smoking area... well, so be it. I guess we'll see what happens when winter comes round, and a few seasons have taken their toll on the jumbrellas.

I do wonder if this does actually circumvent the working area rule though - surely bar staff will still have to work outside, collecting glasses, taking food out etc.?

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kourosism

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ashtrayhead

It's not all doom and gloom! Some pubs still value their customers:-

http://www.shepherd-neame.co.uk/news/release.php?id=593

'Don't Walk, Don't Smoke, Don't Drink', Don't Think'
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This bugs me a little, not a lot, but a little. One thing that has always got my goat about smoke-free areas is that invariably smokers huddle at the entrance/exit, meaning you have to walk through the cancer-ridden filth to get where you want to be.

Now the gardens become the smoking area... well, so be it. I guess we'll see what happens when winter comes round, and a few seasons have taken their toll on the jumbrellas.

I do wonder if this does actually circumvent the working area rule though - surely bar staff will still have to work outside, collecting glasses, taking food out etc.?
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For Christ's sake, it's tobbacco smoke, not cyanide. A couple of wisps drifting throught the open air won't make you drop dead on the spot. Think more about the poison coming out of car exhausts if you want something to worry about, in an enclosed space they will kill you in minutes.

I am a smoker, and I am not against the smoking ban in pubs etc. If people don't want to end up stinking of tobbacco smoke I can understand that, it used to irritate me when I gave up for a while. But I believe the dangers of passive smoking, if any, have been wildly exaggerated. Since non smokers have become the large majority anti smokers feel they are safe to bully everyone else without fear of comeback. They would not dare do that with alcohol, the effects of which cost far more in terms of human misery and money than cigarettes ever do. And if you think there is no such thing as passive drinking, try walking through a town centre at two in the morning or get a job in a casualty department.

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

Kourosism · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Smokin Joe

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kourosism

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ashtrayhead

It's not all doom and gloom! Some pubs still value their customers:-

http://www.shepherd-neame.co.uk/news/release.php?id=593

'Don't Walk, Don't Smoke, Don't Drink', Don't Think'
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This bugs me a little, not a lot, but a little. One thing that has always got my goat about smoke-free areas is that invariably smokers huddle at the entrance/exit, meaning you have to walk through the cancer-ridden filth to get where you want to be.

Now the gardens become the smoking area... well, so be it. I guess we'll see what happens when winter comes round, and a few seasons have taken their toll on the jumbrellas.

I do wonder if this does actually circumvent the working area rule though - surely bar staff will still have to work outside, collecting glasses, taking food out etc.?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
For Christ's sake, it's tobbacco smoke, not cyanide. A couple of wisps drifting throught the open air won't make you drop dead on the spot. Think more about the poison coming out of car exhausts if you want something to worry about, in an enclosed space they will kill you in minutes.

I am a smoker, and I am not against the smoking ban in pubs etc. If people don't want to end up stinking of tobbacco smoke I can understand that, it used to irritate me when I gave up for a while. But I believe the dangers of passive smoking, if any, have been wildly exaggerated. Since non smokers have become the large majority anti smokers feel they are safe to bully everyone else without fear of comeback. They would not dare do that with alcohol, the effects of which cost far more in terms of human misery and money than cigarettes ever do. And if you think there is no such thing as passive drinking, try walking through a town centre at two in the morning or get a job in a casualty department.

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano
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Firstly, I never mentioned anything about drinking, or the effects of other drugs/chemicals on people, so please don't play that card. I find the actions of drunken yobs through cities on Friday nights absolutely appalling, but it is irrelevant in this discussion. There are already rules against drunken behaviour, and the Police work very hard to try to uphold them.

Secondly, my choice of words may not have been the most appropriate, however, I do find the actual smell of tobacco utterly abhorrent, regardless of the health implications... and I know I am not alone. It merely seems that nowadays people are more willing to say so. Probably because smokers are no longer the majority, so non-smokers do not feel as if they should have to put up with it.

Put it this way, think of a smell you find particularly unpleasant, be it blue cheese, marmite, farts, something stronger, whatever. Now imagine that throughout each day, people randomly puff that smell in your face. Sometimes it'll be outside a shop, sometimes it'll be on your way to the swimming pool, sometimes as you go into work.

I don't mind people smoking should they so choose - I do mind people thinking that their habit does not affect other people. It does. I find it utterly disgusting, and I will not apologise for that.

Ravenbait · June 2007

I find the taste of the colour yellow absolutely nauseating.

Quick! Ban it! I shouldn't have to put up with people affecting my sensibilities with their choice of clothes colour.

[}:)]

Sam

The cross product of Tank Girl and Ellen Ripley:

http://ravenfamily.org
"You might remember that 'annoyed' is my natural state!"

http://gentlemencyclists.org/clubhouse
"Ya'd think we could just attract ants, like normal people."

Kourosism · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ravenbait

I find the taste of the colour yellow absolutely nauseating.

Quick! Ban it! I shouldn't have to put up with people affecting my sensibilities with their choice of clothes colour.

[}:)]

Sam

The cross product of Tank Girl and Ellen Ripley:

http://ravenfamily.org
"You might remember that 'annoyed' is my natural state!"

http://gentlemencyclists.org/clubhouse
"Ya'd think we could just attract ants, like normal people."
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[:D]

Dearo · June 2007

My Father-In-Law is a sales rep, bearing in mind that he leases his own car and receives an allowance from his company, how would the smoking ban effect him ?? ??

Although he leases his own work vehicle, is this still considered as his work place ???

Your valued comments would be appreciated.

Regards

Dearo

BigWomble · June 2007

What I find disappointing about the smoking ban, which I otherwise strongly support, is the lack of alternatives for those who want to smoke. Someone has invented a new nicotine gel, which the user rubs into their skin - given the reaction from some, Ann Widdicombe for one, you might be led to think that some evil satanic act is in progress.

Source chosen for accuracy and lack of bias [:I]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... rtComments

Ta - Arabic for moo-cow

Tourist Tony · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kourosism

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ravenbait

I find the taste of the colour yellow absolutely nauseating.

Quick! Ban it! I shouldn't have to put up with people affecting my sensibilities with their choice of clothes colour.

[}:)]

Sam

The cross product of Tank Girl and Ellen Ripley:

http://ravenfamily.org
"You might remember that 'annoyed' is my natural state!"

http://gentlemencyclists.org/clubhouse
"Ya'd think we could just attract ants, like normal people."
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[:D]
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She isn't joking.....

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

The Official UK Smoking Ban Thread!

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