Boardman on Wiggins

Daywalkercp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andyp

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Daywalker

If they need drugs to keep up with the peloton then happen they need to find something else to do

That was a very silly reply
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">No it wasn't. Stop being so patronising.

Imagine if you'd dreamed of being a pro since you were a kid. You progress via junior racing and lots of hard training to being a very good amateur then you get spotted and a team offer you a contract. You gleefully accept it as you've achieved your dream then you discover that to compete you need to take drugs. You've sacrificed your education so have no alternative career plans and, being young and impressionable and thinking your bombproof, you succumb knowing that if you want to keep your job you have to perform.

It happens. People, who may have never raced a bike, then come along demanding life bans. [V]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So if life bans are imposed older riders will clean-up their act and new riders wont feel the need to dope - sorted[8D]

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andyp
Imagine if you'd dreamed of being a pro since you were a kid. You progress via junior racing and lots of hard training to being a very good amateur then you get spotted and a team offer you a contract. You gleefully accept it as you've achieved your dream then you discover that to compete you need to take drugs. You've sacrificed your education so have no alternative career plans and, being young and impressionable and thinking your bombproof, you succumb knowing that if you want to keep your job you have to perform.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well said Andy.

These guys aren't monsters, they're stuck in a rubbish system.

Daywalkercp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by iainf72

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andyp
Imagine if you'd dreamed of being a pro since you were a kid. You progress via junior racing and lots of hard training to being a very good amateur then you get spotted and a team offer you a contract. You gleefully accept it as you've achieved your dream then you discover that to compete you need to take drugs. You've sacrificed your education so have no alternative career plans and, being young and impressionable and thinking your bombproof, you succumb knowing that if you want to keep your job you have to perform.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well said Andy.

These guys aren't monsters, they're stuck in a rubbish system.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They can always walk away from the rubbish system, Graham Obree did and he's got more class than all those cheating dopers put together

Unknown · June 2007

See Andy's reply.

Daywalkercp · June 2007

See my reply to Andy's reply

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Daywalker

So if life bans are imposed older riders will clean-up their act and new riders wont feel the need to dope - sorted[8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Say you are an older rider who has doped and through sheer bad luck, which is the only way it happens by the look of things, fail a dope test. How are you going to feel when you get a life ban knowing you are no worse or better than any of your peers? The temptation to grass them up must be strong. However I'm sure it's coincidence that those riders who have been caught, usually via the criminal justice system, say they acted alone and no-one else was involved.

It's the system that needs sorting out and you're not going to fix it by applying life bans on riders.

Daywalkercp · June 2007

Andy what your saying is correct, but their will always be people who will cheat.

This sport needs cleaning up and a line has to be drawn somewhere, so say a full amnesty for all riders up till the TDF, after that your out you've had fair warning, no excuses just push off.

But we know thats not going to happen

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by iainf72

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andyp
Imagine if you'd dreamed of being a pro since you were a kid. You progress via junior racing and lots of hard training to being a very good amateur then you get spotted and a team offer you a contract. You gleefully accept it as you've achieved your dream then you discover that to compete you need to take drugs. You've sacrificed your education so have no alternative career plans and, being young and impressionable and thinking your bombproof, you succumb knowing that if you want to keep your job you have to perform.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well said Andy.

These guys aren't monsters, they're stuck in a rubbish system.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Absolutely agree there. Let's cut the riders a bit of slack and look at the system as well.

________Our behaviour is a function of our experience.

Unknown · June 2007

I've always said that if I was a pro I would almost certainly have doped. And so would most of the people who are calling for life bans, it is one thing being holier than thou sitting in front of a computer screen, quite another when you are struggling up a mountain covered in vomit and having to go out and do it all again tomorrow.

Very few people would have the courage to go against the flow and become a whistleblower, rightly or wrongly most of us value the respect of our peers. How many people here have ever been offered some cheap gear from a colleague that "fell off the back of a lorry" and not only turned it down but reported it to the police?

Exactly the same morality applies.

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

Daywalkercp · June 2007

"struggling up a mountain covered in vomit and having to go out and do it all again tomorrow"

Nobodies making them do it, if they don't like it then they can just walk away.

I'll just take it that most people on this forum condone drug use - nuff said.

Unknown · June 2007

Nobody condones drug use, but a lot of people who are aware of their own frailties understand it.

Perhaps you think that professional cyclists come from a breed of humans who are so weak minded that they act differently from how the rest of the population would?

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

Daywalkercp · June 2007

"I've always said that if I was a pro I would almost certainly have doped".

"Perhaps you think that professional cyclists come from a breed of humans who are so weak minded that they act differently from how the rest of the population would?"

You obviously are.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Daywalker

"I've always said that if I was a pro I would almost certainly have doped".

"Perhaps you think that professional cyclists come from a breed of humans who are so weak minded that they act differently from how the rest of the population would?"

You obviously are.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Along with virtually every Grand Tour and classic winner since the sport began? I'd settle for being as weak minded as any of them.

leguape · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Daywalker

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by iainf72

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andyp
Imagine if you'd dreamed of being a pro since you were a kid. You progress via junior racing and lots of hard training to being a very good amateur then you get spotted and a team offer you a contract. You gleefully accept it as you've achieved your dream then you discover that to compete you need to take drugs. You've sacrificed your education so have no alternative career plans and, being young and impressionable and thinking your bombproof, you succumb knowing that if you want to keep your job you have to perform.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well said Andy.

These guys aren't monsters, they're stuck in a rubbish system.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They can always walk away from the rubbish system, Graham Obree did and he's got more class than all those cheating dopers put together
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Obree, walk away? Hardly. His brother died, he suffered severe mental health issues and the UCI hounded him out of his success by changing the rules to write his achievements off the books.

It also seem to have escaped you attention that David Millar was given a life ban: by the IOC/BOC meaning that he will never be able to represent GB at the Olympics. It was British Cycling that shows a damn sight more humanity that you and were willing to support him in his return to the sport, giving him guidance and advice so that the mistakes wouldn't happen again.

Given that Millar won the prologue clean in 2000, it's hardly a case that he lacked the ability to compete and win. He also won a Vuelta TT last year clean. So you were saying?

Not to mention that you don't just walk away from a profession because things get a bit tough. Listening to a recent interview with him it sounds like they got very tough during his ban and he may well be in a rather large financial hole still as a result.

http://www.atomicecho.com/cycling/index.shtml - My cycling blog. From commuting to crits and sportives.

Birillo · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> "I've always said that if I was a pro I would almost certainly have doped".

"Perhaps you think that professional cyclists come from a breed of humans who are so weak minded that they act differently from how the rest of the population would?"

You obviously are.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Daydreamer, you obviously have a stronger sense of morality than most. Perhaps you could give us an example of how you bucked the system, and stuck to your principles at the cost of your livelyhood?

oldwelshman · June 2007

Well speak to non cyclists and ask them how exciting it is to watch 7 hours of a bunch in stage race to be decided by a bunch sprint?
Ask the same people about watching a track race and which was boring or not? How you can say track is boring compared to road racing is nuts.
By the way I might not be the best but I do track and road [:D]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by iainf72

I will be honest, I don't like track cycling and consider it B-grade (boring that is), but that's just me. And there does seem to be a big split between the road / track guys. I look at the cream on the road and they don't seem interested either (aside from big fee 6 day appearances)

The pressure on Wiggins isn't good though. Too much pressure has made some people have "weak moments" in the past.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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oldwelshman · June 2007

I cannot believe some of the crap written in this forum about drugs.
Take it and face the consequences I am with daywalker, I believe a life ban should be imposed as a deterrent and at the same time the doping systems need improving.
I have competed in several sports at a decent level and never felt the need or had the desire to take drugs.
You find a level at every sport you try and if your not happy with the level you achieved and you have tried your hardest, then accept it and move on to another sport or give up, simple as that.
Or shock horror, carry on and do it at the level you achieve and enjoy it.
At the end of the day, there can only be one winner in a race even if every one of them are on drugs, they cannot all win so what's the point?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birillo

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> "I've always said that if I was a pro I would almost certainly have doped".

"Perhaps you think that professional cyclists come from a breed of humans who are so weak minded that they act differently from how the rest of the population would?"

You obviously are.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Daydreamer, you obviously have a stronger sense of morality than most. Perhaps you could give us an example of how you bucked the system, and stuck to your principles at the cost of your livelyhood?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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oldwelshman · June 2007

And another point [:D] What has this drugs issue got to do with Bradley Wiggins?
Again I do not understand some of the comments against him?
I do not know him personally but I wish him the best in his ride and hope he does well, he is obviously very talented and a very good athlete and is up against the worlds top athletes so it is going to be a very difficult challenge for him.
I am sure if he reads this forum it will give him a huge boost in confidence before the prologue!!
Instead of pre judging him why not offer your support, I am sure it would be more beneficial.

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Daywalkercp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birillo

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> "I've always said that if I was a pro I would almost certainly have doped".

"Perhaps you think that professional cyclists come from a breed of humans who are so weak minded that they act differently from how the rest of the population would?"

You obviously are.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Daydreamer, you obviously have a stronger sense of morality than most. Perhaps you could give us an example of how you bucked the system, and stuck to your principles at the cost of your livelyhood?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With a reply like that I'll be amazed if you were over the age of 5

Birillo · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Daydreamer, you obviously have a stronger sense of morality than most. Perhaps you could give us an example of how you bucked the system, and stuck to your principles at the cost of your livelyhood?

With a reply like that I'll be amazed if you were over the age of 5 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I asked you a serious question. You seem happy to criticise others, but have yet to demonstrate that you are any better than them.

Daywalkercp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birillo

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Daydreamer, you obviously have a stronger sense of morality than most. Perhaps you could give us an example of how you bucked the system, and stuck to your principles at the cost of your livelyhood?

With a reply like that I'll be amazed if you were over the age of 5 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I asked you a serious question. You seem happy to criticise others, but have yet to demonstrate that you are any better than them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So that's your idea of a serious question is it, never mind you'll grow up one day.

sing_for_absolution · June 2007

Ah, damn all your bickering. Wiggins wins! haha

pumpkincp · June 2007

Sorry for breaking into a private conversation, but Daywalker, I'm intrigued. Do you see yourself more as a Beavis or as a Butthead?

Either way, I have to tell you that zlhuang11 seems to me a far more worthwhile poster on this board.

Like, he's just got to be way more capable of reasoned debate than you.

And he's got some really nice shoes.

Unknown · June 2007

If Millar was not British would you all be so keen to support him?

He cheated and has a long way to go to regain peoples respect.

Unfortunately anything he achieves now could be questioned.

Maybe Boardman no longer has any respect for Millar ?

I found this thread interesting compared to the malice and blind hate expressed against a very successful retired foreign cyclist who despite the best efforts of Cyclings controlling body was not banned for drugs.

Maybe if he had been British he would have been forgiven for winning so often!

R P Rodgers

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_ ... _Simpsons/

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"
"Methinks it is a weasel"

pumpkincp · June 2007

"A very successful retired foreign cyclist."

Rprodgers - why you gotta drag Eddy Merckx into this?

Daywalkercp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pumpkin

Sorry for breaking into a private conversation, but Daywalker, I'm intrigued. Do you see yourself more as a Beavis or as a Butthead?

Either way, I have to tell you that zlhuang11 seems to me a far more worthwhile poster on this board.

Like, he's just got to be way more capable of reasoned debate than you.

And he's got some really nice shoes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Another keyboard warrior methinks

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Daywalker

Another keyboard warrior methinks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle methinks! [;)]

Daywalkercp · June 2007

I came on this forum to join in on sensible discussions about cycling.
I do not take kindly to being called daydreamer or Beavis or Butthead, just because someone has a contrary view to mine, so no I'm not a keyboard warrior, I just don't take it up the arse when some moron insults me.

And that's the last you'll get from me on this thread so say your hurrays and do your dissing I'm bored with it all

Anonymous · June 2007

Bye.

G man · June 2007

I think drug cheats should be given a life ban. On a human level, I think cyclists who have doped and have come clean should be offered good long term medical follow up to prevent future health problems associated with hormones or drugs they may have consumed. They could also provide honest data to assess the long term adverse effects of doping products to try and help treat some of these riders in the future.(I don't condone doping at all, but as humans they deserve some help in the future). If data on such riders regarding adverse effects were made public it may act as a deterrent to doping for young riders embarking on professional careers. I think some of these amazingly genetically gifted individuals need to stand up for their rights to good health. Clean riding needs to become the norm fast. IMO. Ready for the flak now!

respectez le bitumen

Boardman on Wiggins

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