DT RR1.1 rims

peterbr

Hi, anyone else had problems with these? After only 1200km or I have cracks growing from around each eyelet and clearly they are totally unsafe for riding on.

I'm 90-95kg and they are the 36 spoke model. Should I be able to get these replaced or am a too fat a bastard to expect these to work for me? I've only ridden them on very smooth roads.

Shame, these felt and performed brilliantly before this.

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants - where were they when we were fighting the nazis? Eh? Eh?

CraigH

I will the eyelets check mine tonight...

I noticed that teh anodising has flaked in a few parts.

peterbr

I only actually noticed because I got some black gunge on the rim and this worked its way into the crack and made them more visible. I notice that on the DT site, these rims are now in "road" and "road light" versions. Maybe there was a problem....

Also mine are silver - so easy to see. If yours are black, check VERY carefully (maybe use a little talc). The cracks run along the centreline of the rim between the spokes. I'd say the metal around 30-40% of the spokes have this problem.

rjsmith

Are yours the single or double eyletted models?

peterbr

Single - that's all there were until a few months ago.

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants - where were they when we were fighting the nazis? Eh? Eh?

sylvanus

Yes - Its a major problem and effectively they've been recalled and replaced with a double eyeletted version (RR 1.1 double). To be fair you (and I) are probably on the heavy side for these rims but they have never been given an advertised weight limit.

I'll post some links soon but I'm still arguing with the distributor (Ultimate Pursuits) about a replacement. The guarantee is against all defects for two years which Ultimate Pursuits means they give me a discount on a new rim!?

sylvanus

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB ... 0&start=15

Quote from DT on that thread:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"Please be aware that DT Swiss is not trying to pull the wool over anybodies eyes or screw anybody. We have seen some creacked eyelet issues on the RR1.1. Less in the US than in Europe. (Is the obesity epidemic now hitting the Euros!?) We have attributed this to many things but feel it is mostly due to drive side tension and rider weight and style.

I have been in the Cycling Industry since 1989 and my resume includes road and MTB racing, retail, guiding, 10 years as an oustside rep, and 2 1/2 years at DT Swiss. I've seen issues with a lot of products over the years. That said, we do our best to design and manufacture quality products that meet your expectations of value and performance. The RR1.1 was designed as a lightweight racing rim as bikemesenger pointed out. To clarify the issue DT Swiss will continue to manufacture the 28 hole RR1.1 rim as a single eyelet race rim close to the claimed 415g weight (I just weighed a rim on two extremely accurate scales at 419g). The 32 hole RR1.1 will only be manufactured as a double eyeleted rim and will weigh it at about 472g (also just weighed). The RR1450 will get a 28 hole double eyeleted rim on the rear which will increase the weight slightly about 35g. We will change the name of this wheel in the future. Thanks for pointing out the weight listing on our website. Sometimes when traveling to service our many OEM and distributor accounts, visiting dealers, attending events and handling my marketing duties I miss stuff like this! We will make this change shortly.

While you have the choice to use whatever products you like, we hope you continue to use DT Swiss and appreciate your feedback. In the near future we will have a USA website up that will encourage more feedback from consumers and dealers alike."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

So they admit there is a problem but of course its our fault for weighing more that 65kgs (I'm 85)! This is the second time its happened to me - the first time it was replaced without question - this time there being a bit a***y.....

Bern.

1.1 with single eyelets are still available as far as I am aware through the U.K distributor with double eyelet version available in black or silver 32h. I have not heard of any recall.

When first shown the rim when it was launched I voiced concern that it was only a single eyelet, especially as we are in London with the state of the roads. I urged them back then to make a double eyelet version.

I can see their point that it is a race rim designed for racing only, but this should be made clearer by the distributor. The double eyelet version is much better as the spoke load is spread over both sections of the rim and would definately advise these over the single eyelet version.

sylvanus

Thats correct Bern but the RR1450 wheelset will now have a double eyeletted rear rim suggesting that DT themselves don't have much confidence in the super-lightweight version. Unless the rider is 'flyweight" then the original rim on the rear does not seem a good idea in any circumstances. Those of us that have been sold the RR1.1 / RR1450 are now having a lot of problems getting a replacement from Ultimate Pursuits.

Bern.

I sympathise with you. We do stock them, but only in a small way as I prefer the idea of Open Pros as they are proven with double eyelets. We have over 150 years of combined wheel building experience and if you ask any wheel builder I would say that most would recommend double eyelets over single.

It is great to come up with lightweight kit, but some companies forget that if they make it for the tour flyweights then the public will want to use it and expect it to last a bit longer than 6 months.

Give Ultimate Pursuits hassle and they should replace it with a more suitable rim. I have a meeting with the DT rep tomorrow so I will tackle him on it.

peterbr

Its more than fine making lightweight kit but they should have stated this.

I don't believe this is what they intended for 2 reasons. Firstly, the rim isn't that much lighter than an open pro and secondly they made a 36 hole version (what I had) - hardly geared towards featherweight racing methinks.

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants - where were they when we were fighting the nazis? Eh? Eh?

Unknown

Bugger.

I have one of these I built up on a 28h Ultegra hub 18 months ago, radial spoking. I'd better check the thing in the morning. It might be a lightweight racing hoop, but it is on my winter bike! [:0]

---

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

sloboy

I picked up one of these RR1450 sets recently. How can I check to see if it's a double ? Is it a question of taking a peek through the spoke holes from the outside to see what's in there ?

peterbr

All I would say is check them EVERY time you ride. I had no evidence whatsoever there was any problem 2 weeks ago when I previously used the bike. This is of course good advice for any bike with any wheelset.

Looking more closely, it affects EVERY spoke connected to the drive side. There is no sign of problems on the front - as you would expect.

I am waiting for a reply from the shop today. It's more difficult for me as these wheels were built-up and not part of a set that cannot be simply swapped. I feel sorry for the guy who built them actually as he could well lose out on labour and spokes if he has to do a rebuild.

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants - where were they when we were fighting the nazis? Eh? Eh?

sylvanus

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I picked up one of these RR1450 sets recently. How can I check to see if it's a double<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Its almost certainly single eyeletted since despite being aware of the issue for almost a year, DT have still not supplied the strengthened rear wheel version to the UK. The RR1450 has almost disappeared from the shops having been "withdrawn" in all but name. I will reappear strengthened and almost 70g heavier and presumably called the RR1520 or something similar!

peterbr

That's pretty outrageous sylvanus. I for one won't trust another DT product if they cannot be relied upon to recall a product or refund without question when they are well aware of the situation. An utter disgrace. I just hope nobody suffers a catastrophic failure at speed.

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants - where were they when we were fighting the nazis? Eh? Eh?

Tako

I assume those with problems have geared/dished wheels? How do the rims stack up when built as a symmetrical fixed wheel?

sylvanus

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I for one won't trust another DT product<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'm not sure. I'd hope that most of their products are pretty good. Certainly their hubs get good reviews but bike shops I trust have always favoured Mavic (Open Pro) rims and Sapim spokes and that is the route I've gone with the wheels I've just bought as a replacement. I suspect the RR1.1 / RR1450 was a project that almost worked but required revision. I've learnt from the experience and I suspect DT have.

I doubt you could suffer a catastrophic failure since spokes would start to pull through out of the eyelets long before the rim failed. That would leave you with a buckled or unusable wheel but not a catastrophe. I don't expect to buy DT products in future, not because I think they're technically weak, since any product can have faults, but because I really can't be bothered to waste days of phone calls and emails trying to get them to fully honour a guarantee. Life's too short!

I've given up talking too them and the cracked 1450s are hanging on the shed wall.

[:(]

bornagain

Sloboy,

The DT Swiss double eyelet looks very similar to the Mavic double eyelet. If you look at the web page below you will a picture of a double eyelet rim.

http://www.mavic.com/e_img/chapitres/oeil_2.jpg

The single eyelet rim looks the same but the yellow part connecting inner and outer rims is missing.

My new wheels are DT Swiss rr 1.1's on 240s hubs which came from the German site jedi sports a month or so ago. The rear is 32H double. The front is 28H single. I've only done a couple of hundred miles on them but so far so good.....

good, bad and ugly

sylvanus

Given that you have double eyelets and 32H on the rear rim, you're a lot better off than us splittees who now have some wall sculpture but not a pair of wheels.

sylvanus

Peterbr - Did you get a replacement wheel(s). I still seem to be struggling?

peterbr

Still waiting. The rim (actually complete wheel) has gone back to DT. I'm not optimistic either - they don't make the 36 hole any more, with or without double eyelets.

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants and Ivory go together in perfect harmony. Oh Lord, why can't we?

sylvanus

Whether they make it or not they should fix / replace / refund it. I've just had a pair of Open Pros with Campag hubs built - terrific but 200g more than the DT - thinking about getting some 28 spoke Spoke Open Pro's with CX Ray spokes - should come close to RR1450 weight and hopefully a lot more reliable.

Phil Scp

How about these, lighter than both:

http://tinyurl.com/2rvxk2

or Velocity Aerohead, available here..

http://www.53-12.com/bike/bike_index.htm

jay ceecp

the anodising on my pair has come off all over the place. Tyres can be very hard to put on these rims.
But, I only broke one spoke in 2 years, so not bad.

www.vcstraphael.com
www.cyclingplus.co.uk

agamemnon

I'll check my DT RR1.1 rims in the morning - they are single eyelet. I agree, jay cee, tyres are very hard to get on these rims - can you recommend any tyres that are a looser fit than continentals?

peterbr

Yes GP4000s are a bugger on those rims. Interestingly, despite the cracks, the wheel was perfectly true and I never once lost a spoke - so the build was excellent - just the rim was crap.

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants and Ivory go together in perfect harmony. Oh Lord, why can't we?

rogerzilla

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I got the link from elsewhere.

I ran a DT XR 4.1 rear rim (also single eyeletted) for three years, to the point where the rim was concave and about to lose its wear indicators. I built it to such a high tension that the nipples were almost rounded off with a 4-sided spoke key. It never cracked - in fact, I'd highly recommend it to anyone..

It would appear that the RR 1.1 just doesn't have quite enough aluminium around the spoke holes; the single eyelets alone aren't the issue. Remember that some Mavic rims like the MA3 and MA40 also crack round the holes with depressing regularity. Excessive dish (requiring even higher RH spoke tension) may also be a factor - my XR rim was on a 135mm wide XT hub, where the L/R tensions are more closely balanced than on a 130mm road hub.

leonlikestrees

resureected thread! Just for my tuppenth worth - I don't know if they fixed the issue, but I've been running 32h single eyelet R1.1's on my cross bike, and have had no problems. They've even done the three peaks.

I weigh about 10stone, whatever that is in kilo's...

letape2

Sorry to resurrect a very old thread! I have a set of wheels built with rr 1.1 rims and there appears to be very fine cracking around the spoke holes.

I was wondering if this might just be the paint / anodising or if it is the rim itself. His could I tell which? And also had anyone ever had such fine cracking and the rim held up ok with out it failing?

ugo.santalucia

letape2 wrote:

Sorry to resurrect a very old thread! I have a set of wheels built with rr 1.1 rims and there appears to be very fine cracking around the spoke holes.

I was wondering if this might just be the paint / anodising or if it is the rim itself. His could I tell which? And also had anyone ever had such fine cracking and the rim held up ok with out it failing?

It is likely to be the beginning of a nasty crack... the 1.1, then renamed 415 are very light rims and prone to cracking over time. I had a set of Mon Chasseral wheels and the rear rim did crack. The good news is that you can re-rim them... I would advise on using the more robust RR 465, which has exactly the same profile but it last longer... or any other stronger rim if you are happy to replace the spokes too