Cornering tips

ScottHybridP5 · June 2007

Hi all, I am new to road cycling and have recently bought a hybrid as i like the versatility. My hybrid has front suspension and I wondered if I should be aware when cornering at speed. I suspect confidence is a huge part of how you corner and at what speed. What I am asking is for tips on cornering as I know a few motorcyclist and they say that its all in the lean and not in the turn of the handlebars. They also talked about opposite lock though I am not sure if this is relevant to cycling.

I was out the other day and went round a corner at a quick speed though ended up having to use the pavement as I got a bit nervy. Lucky it was empty though I always look for an escape route.

Your thoughts and tips would be appreciated.

My bike details are Scott Sportster P5 hybrid, 700c X 32 tyres, front suspension (reasonably hard)

Clip in and get going

Buggi · June 2007

opposite lock is for motorcyclists. i think it's when they lean the bike down so their knee is almost touching the floor and the wheel is turned the opposite way to what they want to turn. you see it on the race track a lot, take a look. i've never heard of it on a hybrid. i think you need a lot of speed to be able to do it.

confidence is key, but some tips i would say are:

1. stay as upright as poss if the road is wet (especially if going over metal drains/manhole covers) or if road is gravelly. gravel burn is not nice.
2. brake to a slower speed before taking corner, not during taking a corner.
3. if you are used to a mountain bike, be aware that hybrids and race bikes have wider cornering.

ps. what terrain are you using your bike on? you might wanna ditch the suspension if you're using it for road only. it's not really necessary on the road and uses up energy.
_____________________________________________

To infinity... and beyond!
my epic adventure: www.action.org.uk/~Antonia

funkyrayman · June 2007

Counter steering is what you are thinking of and while it does 'apply' to cyclists, that is in fact the way your bike steers, you don't need to be consciously aware of it.

However look out for point no. 2 above, going too fast into a turn and then slamming on the brakes is a sure fire way to come off. Start off slowly and as you build up your confidence you'll learn what your bike can do first of all, and you'll also get better at gauging corners.

gkerr4 · June 2007

opposite lock - i.e. countersteering is relevant to cyclists, just not as much as to motorcyclists as they have more rotating mass than us.

if you want to turn to the left, you need to lean in to the left and to tip the bike over quicker, you need to turn to the right! this is because of the gyroscopic effect of the spinning wheel.

try holding the front wheel by the axle in your hand, spin it and turn it to the right - it tilts to the left!!

ScottHybridP5 · June 2007

i ride mostly on the roads, though with the state of the roads in Scotland i opted for front suspesion to ease the bumps out.

Wider cornering?? does that mean you need to have more room to turn? explain.

I have tried experimenting with turning and found that keeping the bars straight and using lean is best, though its all about confidence.

Clip in and get going

ScottHybridP5 · June 2007

another point!!!

would adjusting the front suspension be of any use?

Cheers,

Ray

"Clip in and get going"

Symchicken · June 2007

As a cyclist and a motorcyclist I thought I might add my two pennies.

Countersteer is a technique used mostly by motorcyclists, but can be applied to a bicycle too. Countersteering means turning a corner by pushing the handlebars the "wrong" way. That is, to turn left, push the left handlebar. Intuition says that to turn left you must push the right handlebar to rotate the wheel in the correct direction

When you're travelling at speed pushing the handlebars one way or another does not rotate them as it does at low speeds. Instead the it has the effect of tipping the bike. So by pushing the "wrong" way, you are actually tipping the bike the correct way. Push left, tip left, turn left.

It's an important technique to master on a motorbike as it allows you to have much greater control when turning, especially as the bike often weighs over twice as much as the rider, so leaning is not as effective.

This is also the reason why countersteer is not really as necessary on a bicycle. As most riders weigh more than their bikes, the slightest variation in 'lean' has a good enough effect on steering. Countersteering on a bicycle at speed is just likely to cause a sharp jerk and a temporary loss of control. This isn't to say it should never be used, only taht it is much harder to find a situation where it has a decent positive benefit on turning. Especially as thin bicyle tires probably dont have enough grip to cope with very large lean angles where the bike has a high centre of gravity ('cos of the rider) and the speeds involved are relatively low (<25mph).

I think practice will improve your cornering naturally as you come to be more comfortable with your bikes balance, your centre of gravity on it, and the limits of its grip etc.

Blimey, that was an essay! Sorry for the legnth, hoe it isn't too confusing.

Boosh! Boosh! Stronger than a Moose!

fluff. · June 2007

Not been mentioned yet so; remember to weight your outside pedal on a corner.

----
The summer bike | The fixie | The sensible one (TBA)

Buggi · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ScottHybridP5

Wider cornering?? does that mean you need to have more room to turn? explain.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

they have a slightly wider turning circle, but i didn't realise you had straight handlebards so you might find it less obvious because of this. i once saw an olympic triathlete ride straight into the cushioned barriers because she misjudged her cornering. it was laughable because she just looked like she headed straight for it. suppose she didn't find it too funny tho!

_____________________________________________

To infinity... and beyond!
my epic adventure: www.action.org.uk/~Antonia

miffedcp · June 2007

Cornering is about confidence and practice.

Take it slowly, learn what your bike and you can do and add speed from there.
Brake early and try and not brake and turn at the same time.
Countersteering is difficult to understand and hard to put into practice, so dont worry about it, most cyclist dont

The thing you need to do is ride your bike, and you will get better.
j

nickwill · June 2007

Descending at speed on a winding road such as the sort of hills we have in the Lakes and Dales, is best done by countersteering. This way you have complete control of the bike and can place it where you want it to go.
Once you get used to it, it feels completely intuitive.
When you lean the bike over, push down on the opposite pedal to the way you are leaning. This pushes the wheels into the road and improves grip.

You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nickwill

Descending at speed on a winding road such as the sort of hills we have in the Lakes and Dales, is best done by countersteering. This way you have complete control of the bike and can place it where you want it to go.
Once you get used to it, it feels completely intuitive.When you lean the bike over, push down on the opposite pedal to the way you are leaning. This pushes the wheels into the road and improves grip.

You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You are already used to countersteering, because you would never have turned a corner in your life if you hadn't been doing it. It is what a two wheeled vehicle does when it is banked into a turn, otherwise it would carry on in a straight line. If you had the confidence and the skill to corner hands off the bike would countersteer all on it's own, no rider input whatsoever is nescessary.

Sorry to be harsh, but countersteering is something that in the last decade or so has been "taught" by a band of motorcycle instructors who don't know what they are talking about.

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

nickwill · June 2007

I understand what you are saying Smokin Joe, but I think it helps to understand the process of cornering. When you see an inexperienced descender, they are often trying to steer round a corner, and seem to be fighting the tendancy of the bike to lean. The ability to control the lean of a bike is not obvious to a beginner.

You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

funkyrayman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Smokin Joe

Sorry to be harsh, but countersteering is something that in the last decade or so has been "taught" by a band of motorcycle instructors who don't know what they are talking about.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Absolutely, heard so many ppl who've been taught and been given misconceptions about it because the instructor clearly didn't understand the concept he was teaching.

funkyrayman · June 2007

BTW I'm talking about motorcycles there....

funkyrayman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nickwill

I understand what you are saying Smokin Joe, but I think it helps to understand the process of cornering. When you see an inexperienced descender, they are often trying to steer round a corner, and seem to be fighting the tendancy of the bike to lean. The ability to control the lean of a bike is not obvious to a beginner.

You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think you need to know anything about counter steering to get over that cycling inexperience. A beginner's cornering ability will improve through experience...

Unknown · June 2007

Just chuck it in!

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flet · June 2007

If you didn't counter steer the bike(any bike) would just flop over when you turned the handlebars. We all do it automatically, that's what learning to balance is all about.

When i took my bike test it was mentioned by the instructor, i could tell by the reaction of some of the other chaps they were sceptical, but it makes perfect sense to me.

LeighB · June 2007

Cyclist and ex motorcycle racer comment, relax and do what comes naturally. A bike goes round a corner best without excessive rider input; start pushing things in corners and you just upset the bike. Correct entry into a corner dictates where you exit i.e. not too fast and you exit on the road and not the pavement. Look at a child sweeping through a bend on a bike full of confidence; they don't think to push on the bars etc.

Unknown · June 2007

If you find cornering a bit of a mystery, the best technique is as follows -

Find a quiet road with a bend which has a good view through it so you can see whether there is any oncoming traffic. Approach briskly but at a speed you know is within your limits, get all of your braking done when you are in a straight line. Relax your body, don't grip the bars too tight and flatten your back to lower your centre of gravity.

As you get to the turning point, steer with your eyes. Look at the apex of the bend and keep that in your focal point and that is exactly where the bike will head. If you look at the opposite verge you will run wide, so ignore that and keep your gaze on the line you want to take. As you bank the bike your weight will automatically shift to your outside foot, centrifugal force will take care of that. The bike will counersteer on it's own, so don't try and force it. If you are running wide turn your eyes in toward the inside of the bend, you will automatically regain the line you want. If you are running too close to the verge, move your gaze out and the bike will run wider. Don't worry if you have overcooked it on the entry speed, keep your eyes focused where you want to head. The bike will bank to a degree that will frighten the pants off most people before the tyres loose their grip, and if you have seriously overdone it the worst that will happen is a slide along the road and a bit of gravel rash. People mostly crash because they panic and sit up and brake, which will either throw you off or slam you into the opposite hedgerow.

It is all about keeping relaxed and steering with your eyes, there is no great mystery about the technique. That is how everyone from demon descenders like Sean Kelly and GP greats such as Valentino Rossi do it.

Nobody ever got laid because they were using Shimano

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Symchicken

As a cyclist and a motorcyclist I thought I might add my two pennies.

Countersteer is a technique used mostly by motorcyclists, but can be applied to a bicycle too. Countersteering means turning a corner by pushing the handlebars the "wrong" way. That is, to turn left, push the left handlebar. Intuition says that to turn left you must push the right handlebar to rotate the wheel in the correct direction

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've noticed this. But what you're actually doing is pushing it DOWN, rather than pushing it forward.

ScottHybridP5 · June 2007

Thanks guys for all your input on my post! I will take your points and take it easy. Like most of us newbies we want to ride as fast as Lance Armstrong within a week.

Experience and confidence is the key! Thanks again.

Cheers,

Ray

"Clip in and get going"

Adam_57 · June 2007

A centipede was happy quite,
Until a frog in fun said:
"Pray tell which leg comes after which?"
This raised her mind to such a pitch,
she lay distracted in a ditch,
considering how to run.

BornAgainCyclist · June 2007

The best tip I was ever given about cornering, was to always keep your eye on the inside of the corner, never the outside - or you will be drawn towards it.

The older I get, the better I was

Cornering tips

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