Swopping points

Mister Paul · May 2007

The Wail's daily speeding story-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

Strangely, this is the first one for a while that hasn't included a quote from old Smithy.

Doesn't he have an opinion on 'points brokering'?[;)]

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Road Safety Expert

dondare · May 2007

I've always thought that it was spelled "swap".

Baby elephants? Pah!!

Mister Paul · May 2007

So did I. But it says swop in the Wail.

It must be swap. Otherwise Poshpaws would be Poshpows. Mind you, it really out to be Pohspaws. I'm going to ring Mr Edmonds and have a word. Or is it Edmunds?

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Road Safety Expert

Tourist Tony · May 2007

I notice that the crime is most approved of in Scotland.
Abode of the Magic Ponytail.....

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Archcp · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

So did I. But it says swop in the Wail.

It must be swap. Otherwise Poshpaws would be Poshpows. Mind you, it really out to be Pohspaws. I'm going to ring Mr Edmonds and have a word. Or is it Edmunds?

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Road Safety Expert
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think Poshpaws was meant to be Swapshop backwards, just an anagram, so Poshpaws is fine....

Chambers allows 'swap' or 'swop', but the word derives from Middle English 'swappen', so 'swap' would be my preference... I tend to thing of 'swop' as the Americanized spelling...

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

bad company · June 2007

Yes I know several people who have either got the wife\husband or a n other to take the points.

IMO this is inevitable in the current climate of revenue raising rather than road safety.[}:)]

I AM THE STIG - HONEST

Unknown · June 2007

It's a shame that there is a perceived climate of 'revenue raising' rather than safety, this perception does seem to be on the increase too (or maybe I hang around Interweb forums too much!). I think it needs to be tackled and the truth publicised before it becomes another excuse for motorists to use to break the laws they don't want to adhere to.

Sheddy · June 2007

It might help if one could see a link between speeding fines and inceased traffic police deployed

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bad company

Yes I know several people who have either got the wife\husband or a n other to take the points.

IMO this is inevitable in the current climate of revenue raising rather than road safety.[}:)]

I AM THE STIG - HONEST
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've tampered with my gas and electric meters this morning. Given the current climate of energy costs, it's inevitable.

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Road Safety Expert

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peyote

It's a shame that there is a perceived climate of 'revenue raising' rather than safety, this perception does seem to be on the increase too (or maybe I hang around Interweb forums too much!). I think it needs to be tackled and the truth publicised before it becomes another excuse for motorists to use to break the laws they don't want to adhere to.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's just made up by the speed apologists. You can give them any evidence and they'll just come up with a dodgy graph to try to counter it.

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Road Safety Expert

lardarse rider · June 2007

Should the story in the mail state - most people wouldn't consider swapping points?

Please be upstanding for the Mayor of Simpleton

bad company · June 2007

This story also appeared in The Telegraph and if you can't trust the Telegraph who can you trust?

Where do you live Mr Paul - I am going to shop you for meddling with your gas meter!!

I AM THE STIG - HONEST

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bad company

Where do you live Mr Paul - I am going to shop you for meddling with your gas meter!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
He lives in the most excellent city of BIRMINGHAM.

Sheddy · June 2007

The Telegraph has been known to buy and print stories without first checking the facts, only to find out later that some hack jorno has made up/embroidered the news.

Too much of anything is too much for me

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bad company

This story also appeared in The Telegraph and if you can't trust the Telegraph who can you trust?

Where do you live Mr Paul - I am going to shop you for meddling with your gas meter!!

I AM THE STIG - HONEST
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So you see the analogy then?

When you do shop me then you might also let them know that I often drive away without paying after filling the car with petrol. IMO this is inevitable in the current climate of revenue raising rather than cheap petrol.

All three are stupid remarks, don't you see?

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Road Safety Expert

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bad company

Where do you live Mr Paul - I am going to shop you for meddling with your gas meter!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
He lives in the most excellent city of BIRMINGHAM.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's right Bonj. All the more excellent because the suffocating, concrete ring road has been broken down to give priority to other forms of transport than your white van.

Your car isn't king any longer.

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Road Safety Expert

Jaded · June 2007

The telegraph story talked about "otherwise law abiding drivers". It is so laughable. I mean, what about those poor "otherwise law abiding rapists" that have been caught by new DNA technology. Give 'em a break! It's so unfair!

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Cunobelin · June 2007

THe reason that Paul Smith hasn't commented on this is fairly clear - his site promoted such offences!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Friend takes the points

If you have a friend with a clean licence, they might agree to admit that they were driving and allow you to pay their fixed penalty notice and any (small!) motor insurance increases. This works even better if you have a relative who no longer drives. If you have a friend who never intends to drive, make sure they get a provisional licence to receive points for you. At the time of writing there are no insurance or other checks when a fixed penalty notice is paid.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
From the SafeSpeed website.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Mister Paul · June 2007

Consider a past discussion I had with him-

Me
So, Paul,
Let's bring this question to it's simplest form, in order to fully understand where you are coming from.
Your words (the full text can be seen in an earlier post)-
I think the points broker is a brilliant idea too and I've added it to my web site. 
And, when referring to suggestions on how to evade conviction for speeding and thusbreaking the law-
One of a series of good ideas on:
noname.uk/avoid.html 
Removing all assumptions, please could you put these words into context?

Him
As you very well know I was researching all aspects of speed camera policy as a hobby. I've told you time and again. Now pack it in with the slur attempts. No one is interested.

Me
On the contrary. There are many people who are very interested.
Please explain how your use of the words "brilliant idea" and "good ideas" fit in to your research explanation. Surely you can see that it doesn't fit? Or do you not understand what I'm asking?
"Brilliant ideas" and "good ideas" represent your view of the suggestions, do they not? Where do they come into play with research?
Not a slur. Merely asking you to explain yourself.

Him
You probably can tell the difference between enthusiasm and endorsement. You probably can tell the difference between a 'brilliant idea' and a brilliant thing to do. You probably can recognise the total insignificance of five year old newsgroup posts. You probably know very well that no one is interested, except in your twisted little fantasies.
And you probably know that when you write 'not a slur' that no one here will believe you. 

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Road Safety Expert

eternal_headwind · June 2007

In order to break the cycle, we need to break the taxation argument. Can't be that hard can it?

Does PS really have a ponytail?

ScumOfTheRoad · June 2007

Does the Pope have red socks?

Cunobelin · June 2007

There is no answer to the taxation argument, as it doesn't actually have a valid base.

I don't like being caught by a speed camera
I can't possibly have been driving dangerously
I can't be censured for my driving because I am so good
Therefore it must be a form of taxation.........

Tax is by definition an involuntary levy, whereas a speeding fine is entirely voluntary.

Fines for illegal activity cannot ever be described as taxation by any sane measure.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

The Bosscp · June 2007

It's all becoming very clear to me now - the reason he can't substantiate his arguments as to why it's morally ok to do things like swop (sic.) points, claim a recently deceased person was driving, etc. is because it's what he thinks is the right thing to do, he does it for money. His goal seems to be to make the site as popular as possible, in order to get as many donations as possible - and this appears to be just a way of increasing its popularity by becoming a target for the hundreds of people that must be searching for ways to get off speeding fines.
In a similar way to how companies put out naff adverts which the advertising executives probably cringe at themselves, but they know that the catchy theme tune and annoying dog/baby/hapless bloke/glib woman/precocious kids/etc will make the public remember it and sell the product.

<hr noshade size="1">
CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

eternal_headwind · June 2007

You can break the taxation argument by not taking any money off the offender. There are other civilised ways of punishing a wrongdoer.

How about a short term loss of license?

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

It's all becoming very clear to me now - the reason he can't substantiate his arguments as to why it's morally ok to do things like swop (sic.) points, claim a recently deceased person was driving, etc. is because it's what he thinks is the right thing to do, he does it for money. His goal seems to be to make the site as popular as possible, in order to get as many donations as possible - and this appears to be just a way of increasing its popularity by becoming a target for the hundreds of people that must be searching for ways to get off speeding fines.
In a similar way to how companies put out naff adverts which the advertising executives probably cringe at themselves, but they know that the catchy theme tune and annoying dog/baby/hapless bloke/glib woman/precocious kids/etc will make the public remember it and sell the product.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think he's in it for the money. He claims to have an engineering background, and there's far more money in that.

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What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You can break the taxation argument by not taking any money off the offender. There are other civilised ways of punishing a wrongdoer.

How about a short term loss of license?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Other options have been tried such as remedial tuition instead of a fine.

Not good.....

We actually had one SS troll claiming that the remedial course allowed them to speed!

Removal of the license occurs at 12 points, but the whining claim changes from "taxing the poor motorist" to "victimising the poor motorist"

These are all red herrings to try and remove an effective tool for dealing with incompetent and arrogant drivers

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

PetrolHeadcp · June 2007

I have one question. If speeding is so dangerous and abhorrent, and thus those with points must therefore be scum of the earth. Why are insurance companies stopping the automatic loading of policies for people with points recieved from automated enforcement.

A damning indictment if ever there was one. Insurance companies pay egg head actuaries who do nothing but study statistics all day long, and they deem that the system is flawed.

Who do I believe - I'll let you work it out.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PetrolHead

I have one question. If speeding is so dangerous and abhorrent, and thus those with points must therefore be scum of the earth. Why are insurance companies stopping the automatic loading of policies for people with points recieved from automated enforcement.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There's too much scum on the roads, so they have to make allowances for the less scumier scum! To answer your question though, speeding is a crime, but it's not really in the same league as getting done for dangerous driving or the ilk. (Not sure anyone has said otherwise) So I guess it's fair that the risk is lower for those with speeding convictions than for those with more serious ones.

Of course for those with no convictions the risk is even lower, which is what we're all wanting (though some think the enforcement should be reduced, and others think driver standards should improve, different means same end).

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PetrolHead
A damning indictment if ever there was one. Insurance companies pay egg head actuaries who do nothing but study statistics all day long, and they deem that the system is flawed.

Who do I believe - I'll let you work it out.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So you believe the insurance companies? Rather than the Government Stats? Fair enough, personally I'd take 'em both with a pinch of salt, unless of course I had something to gain from believing one over the other...

Unknown · June 2007

Now I'm new to this forum, and relatively new to cycling on the roads anyway...
I have 3 points on my licence, gained just recently on a mtb trip to Wales. Offence was speeding in a 30 limit.
My fault, I chose to ignore the limit and got caught.

By your logic I'm now scum. Hmm, I hope I meet you someday, and I'll prove I'm not. Physically.
You should try riding a bike first before you go off on one, someone has a sig here that reads: "25mph is very fast when you are not wearing a car" and its VERY true.
Now **** off.

My roadie

My pics

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PetrolHead

I have one question. If speeding is so dangerous and abhorrent, and thus those with points must therefore be scum of the earth. Why are insurance companies stopping the automatic loading of policies for people with points recieved from automated enforcement.

A damning indictment if ever there was one. Insurance companies pay egg head actuaries who do nothing but study statistics all day long, and they deem that the system is flawed.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's really quite simple.

More cameras means that more drivers are being caught doing something which they have done for a long time. Just because they are now being caught doing it does not mean that they are more of a risk than they were before. So on a risk basis there is no need to increase their premium.

Now, you might say that if this is true then there should still be a case for lower premiums for those who have no points for speeding. But the increasing number of people gaining points is an increasing market to lose. Far better to market it as the insurance companies have, keep people sweet, and keep the premiums coming in.

So no daming indictment there. Just a business decision.

Oh, and no-one said that speeding drivers are the scum of the earth. And I'm curious to know why speed apologists continually use emotive language. Is that to try to shore up their weak argument?

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What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ratty2k

Now I'm new to this forum and relatively new to cycling on the roads anyway...
I have 3 point on my licence gain just recently on a mtb trip to Wales. Offence was speeding ion a 30 limit.
My fault, I chose to ignore the limit and got caught.

By your logic I'm now scum. Hmm, I hope I meet you someday, and I'll prove I'm not. Physically.
You should try riding a bike round first before you go off on one, someone has a sig here that reads: "25mph is very fast when you are not wearing a car"
Now **** off.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ratty, if that post was aimed at me I didn't mean my previous post to be taken entirely seriously. It would be incredibly arrogant of me to label everyone who had points on their license as scum! I was replying to Petrolhead's assertion!

By the way, threats of physical violence over an internet forum, major faux pas Dude!

Swopping points

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