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Simoni's VAM - From Cyclingnews...

edited June 2007 in Pro race
Gilberto Simoni (Saunier Duval-Prodir) conquered the 10.1-kilometre Monte Zoncolan in 1850 metres per hour according to La Gazzetta dello Sport. The speed, 39 minutes over the 1203 metres, 1850 VAM (Velocity Ascended, Metres per hour Vm/h), was faster than that of Ivan Basso on the Maielletta Passo Lanciano in 2006, 1805 VAM. Marco Pantani blasted up the Alpe d'Huez with a 1791 VAM and Danilo Di Luca did the final four kilometres of Tre Cime di Lavaredo with a 1750 VAM.


Make of that what you will...


  • LangenbergLangenberg Posts: 453
    Faster than Pantani?????? [:0]

    Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.
    Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Langenberg</i>

    Faster than Pantani?????? [:0]

    Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Faster than ET too.
  • Steve TcpSteve Tcp Posts: 7,350

    Take care,

    Take care,

  • Keith OatesKeith Oates Posts: 22,036
    Just goes to show what can be achieved when you're concentrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ride Daily, Keep Healthy

    Ride Daily, Keep Healthy
  • andy_welchandy_welch Posts: 1,101
    Surely that just shows that the Zocolan was steeper than the climbs that Basso and Pantani did. If it is ascent per hour then, provided that you can keep going, the steeper the better. after all, you can go as fast as you like on the flat and you'll still register zero VAM.


  • Hmmmm indeed..although of course cos Zoncolan is so steep, he'd have actually had to pedal less distance to climb the 1850 phr which may have helped

    <font size="1">[scrabbles off to find slide rule and it cos or tan....]</font id="size1">

    Nope, doper[}:)]

    Did you get planning permission for that sense of humour bypass?
  • RadsmanRadsman Posts: 122
    Doesn't this directly correlate to power? Which seem
    s to be the measure people like to throw around when talking about drug use?
  • johndfjohndf Posts: 250
    Makes sense that within reason, the steeper the climb, the more VAM. Just imagine trying to do a good VAM on a 1% climb. You'd have to ride at 100km/h to do 1000 VAM. On a 10% climb, you only need to do 10km/h. Maybe there is some maximum gradient after which it gets harder to do aa good VAM, but certainly the steepness of the Zoncolan will have been a big help.
  • A steep climb at the end of a short stage , and Simoni wasn't by himself up the climb and a lot of riders finished quite close to him .
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Great 53x12 article, Iain. This VAM is the number we need to look at rather than average speeds, I think. Correlated with the %gradient of the climb in question, of course...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • I don't think it proves anything other than the fact that the Zoncolan is steep. And we knew that before they rode up it.
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Ferrari's article on correlating VAM with steepness would allow you to compare Simoni's performance on the Zoncolan with Basso's on the Maielletta last year. I'm not saying this would be a 100% valid comparison, but surely it's better than looking at average speeds between different years?

    Given the correlation that can be made between VAM and gradient, it would be possible to go back and produce a number for every GC contender on every climb, where their time is known. I would be interested to see what trend, if any emerges over the last 20 years. Sadly I don't have the time or inclination to do it, but it would be interesting for the Freakonomics guy to have a go at. Steven Levitt, I think his name is.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Mortirolo numbers here

    He usually has a look at the VAM stuff as part of his analysis.
  • <font color="red">"Basso seemed to have remarkably improved his climbing if compared to last year when he never expressed himself above 1700 m/h.
    This is surely due to a lower body weight and more ideal pedaling cadences for his power outputs,"</font id="red">

    Do you think old Michele will be revising his pages in the light of recent developments?


    Did you get planning permission for that sense of humour bypass?
  • I don't think he was exactly taken by surprise by Basso's performance. But I do remember his analysis of Perez (the Buffalo)'s climbing in that Vuelta sounded as if he was a bit shocked!

    If Simoni's at it then hard to believe Di Luca and the others aren't - after they weren't that far behind.

    Can we trust Schleck to be clean with CSC's new policy - he seems to be doing rather better than any of the T-mobile boys.
  • grimpeurcpgrimpeurcp Posts: 3,043
    One thing to note is that CSC's anti-doping program was helf up as the UCI as being a model for something they might take on and is being held in higher regard than T-Mobile's. Proof enough I guess.

    To give you some more insight into their new anti-doping program, it was started just before the 2007 season. Dr. Damsgaard, one of the worlds leading authorities in the fight against doping, and for years very critical of cycling and the team; was invited to design a program to monitor the riders. This program is comprised, not only of the usual tests (which unfortunately are not effective for certain types of doping as the past has shown), but also any other tests he sees fit. These include tests that may not show definite proof of doping (and therefore are not used in current, official doping tests), but which can arouse suspicion that something improper is going on. In fact, several other teams have expressed an interest in using the same system for their team so presumably this can be the start of something meaningful. It works as follows:

    * Dr. Damsgaard has designed the program, the UCI and WADA have approved it;
    * A WADA-approved test management company is responsible to taking samples whenever they see fit; riders are required to advise them about their whereabouts at all times so that they can be tested without prior warning.
    * Samples are sent to WADA-accredited labs;
    * The samples are tested and the results are sent directly to the UCI and WADA, not to the team, so that there can be no interference;
    * Test frequency and timing can be adjusted based on suspicious or inconclusive test results. 90% of the testing is done out-of-competition, when the chances of catching any wrongdoing is greatest;
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