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What kind of government

Brass MonkeyBrass Monkey Posts: 429
edited May 2007 in Campaign
Sends a guy, wrongly convicted of rape, to jail, lets him out after 3 years and charges him œ7,000 for board?

Don't be so humble, you're not that great.

Don\'t be so humble, you\'re not that great.
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  • graham56graham56 Posts: 634
    An inept one?

    It`s a state of mind.
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    Rape's a bit of a grey area though, isn't it.
  • ArchcpArchcp Posts: 8,987
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    Rape's a bit of a grey area though, isn't it.

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    er, what's your point? If he'd been wrongly convicted of anything else, charging him for board would be wrong, but as it's rape, it's OK? Because somehow 'wrongly convicted' means something different in that case? You think maybe he did do it really, and the 'wrongly convicted' bit is just made up for the fun of it?

    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    Rape's a bit of a grey area though, isn't it.

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    The issue is one of guilt or innocence. The nature of the alleged crime is irrelevant.
  • Joe SaccoJoe Sacco Posts: 4,907
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Brass Monkey</i>

    Sends a guy, wrongly convicted of rape, to jail, lets him out after 3 years and charges him œ7,000 for board?

    Don't be so humble, you're not that great.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    one with a cracking sense of humour?
  • mr_hippomr_hippo Posts: 1,051
    Can someone provide a link?

    http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

    Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June
  • dondaredondare Posts: 2,113
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Brass Monkey</i>

    Sends a guy, wrongly convicted of rape, to jail, lets him out after 3 years and charges him œ7,000 for board?

    Don't be so humble, you're not that great.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    A prudent one.

    Baby elephants? Pah!!
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • mr_hippomr_hippo Posts: 1,051
    I've found the link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nort ... 702519.stm

    This is not the first time it has happened and I don't think it will be the last.
    The reasons for the deductions sound perfectly rational to me.

    http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

    Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June
  • redcogsredcogs Posts: 3,232
    Atrocious. But raises the question also of why the 'Ministry of Injustice' would take the decision to reveal that they were making a board and lodging deduction in the first place.

    Wouldn't it have been less controversial to simply award a generous and appropriate amount with an apology but without further comment? Its as though they are resentful at being revealed as imposters to the title 'Ministry of Justice'.

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  • Eat My DustEat My Dust Posts: 3,965
    That's f*c*ing outrageous!! Does he get a bill for his dry cleaning as well, oh and don't forget his portion of the TV license.

    I hope I never get wrongly convicted of something. "well MR EMD, we figured that you spend several thousand pounds a year on cycling bit and pieces, so we are going to deduct that from your compensation"!!

    SNAPS
  • Flying_MonkeyFlying_Monkey Posts: 8,708
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mr_hippo</i>
    The reasons for the deductions sound perfectly rational to me.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Well, that's the problem with economic rationality on its own. In this case it goes against any idea of moral or social decency. I don't care whether it's 'rational' here, but whether it is 'right'. And it isn't.

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

    Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em
    That I got no cerebellum
  • ankev1ankev1 Posts: 3,686
    How long has the UK had a Ministry of Justice? I must have missed that one. It sounds horribly Orwellian and definitely Blairish. Yeugh!
  • marinyorkmarinyork Posts: 271
    Not very long at all, the last few weeks. Another one of Reid's ideas.

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ankev1</i>

    How long has the UK had a Ministry of Justice? I must have missed that one. It sounds horribly Orwellian and definitely Blairish. Yeugh!
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
  • The BosscpThe Bosscp Posts: 647
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Patrick Stevens</i>

    The issue is one of guilt or innocence. The nature of the alleged crime is irrelevant.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    With some crimes there is a much finer line between guilt and innocence though. It often can't be proved conclusively either way.
  • ArchcpArchcp Posts: 8,987
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by The Boss</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Patrick Stevens</i>

    The issue is one of guilt or innocence. The nature of the alleged crime is irrelevant.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    With some crimes there is a much finer line between guilt and innocence though. It often can't be proved conclusively either way.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Er, but it was proved enough to send him to jail and then disproved enough to release him as he'd been wrongly convicted. As said before, the nature of the crime is irrelevant. The point at issue is whether someone should pay the state for housing them wrongly in prison. Especially when prisoners convicted correctly don't get billed for their upkeep.

    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    Ah, no smoke without fire?

    I suggest you look up the burden of proof in criminal cases.

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    But then I forget myself..."reasonable" in the same room as "Bonj"?

    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • mr_hippomr_hippo Posts: 1,051
    I wonder , if when he got the cheque, did he also receive a statement of costs detailing how they arrived at the award? Reminds me of the old joke of the man who found a pay packet and was not happy about it because of all the tax 'he' paid

    http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

    Ex-XXL weigh-in 9/10 June: Update published: Monday 11 June
  • BuggiBuggi Posts: 674
    because it basically means he did it, they know he did it, but he's got off on a technicality.

    rape and sexual assault are the hardest to prove and the CPS don't prosecute them unless they are sure they can get a conviction. he probably has a record as long as his arm and "history of false accusations against men" translates as one previous report which she was unable to prove. lightning does sometimes strike twice.

    _____________________________________________

    To infinity... and beyond!
    my epic adventure: www.action.org.uk/~Antonia
    _____________________________________________

    To infinity... and beyond!
    my epic adventure: www.action.org.uk/~Antonia
  • ankev1ankev1 Posts: 3,686
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by marinyork</i>

    Not very long at all, the last few weeks. Another one of Reid's ideas.

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ankev1</i>

    How long has the UK had a Ministry of Justice? I must have missed that one. It sounds horribly Orwellian and definitely Blairish. Yeugh!
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    If they'd had any sort of style they would have called it the Law Office and while they were at it they could have given the MOD its old name of War Office back too. Much classier all round.
  • ArchcpArchcp Posts: 8,987
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Buggi</i>

    because it basically means he did it, they know he did it, but he's got off on a technicality.

    rape and sexual assault are the hardest to prove and the CPS don't prosecute them unless they are sure they can get a conviction. he probably has a record as long as his arm and "history of false accusations against men" translates as one previous report which she was unable to prove. lightning does sometimes strike twice.

    _____________________________________________

    To infinity... and beyond!
    my epic adventure: www.action.org.uk/~Antonia
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    So why don't all criminals get a bill for their upkeep when they get out then? I think that's the main issue in this thread... Are you suggesting it's a sort of unofficial fine to make up for years you reckon he should still have served?

    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Arch</i>

    ...prisoners convicted correctly don't get billed for their upkeep.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes. Very odd, that.
  • Joe SaccoJoe Sacco Posts: 4,907
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by NickM</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Arch</i>

    ...prisoners convicted correctly don't get billed for their upkeep.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes. Very odd, that.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    How would they pay it after years inside. Suppose they could try a few robberies to cover the costs...
  • We could put them to work while they are inside. I can't think why we don't.
  • ArchcpArchcp Posts: 8,987
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by NickM</i>

    We could put them to work while they are inside. I can't think why we don't.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Perhaps because it might wee off people who would otherwise get those jobs - a friend of mine studied for an NVQ in conservation work, all in her own time and expense and then one day at our local environment centre, was annoyed to discover a couple of bored looking young offenders being helped through the workbook by their caseworkers, as part of their punishment - and then being used to do work she was qualified to be paid to do..

    So I guess you have to make them do the really censored jobs no-one wants, but even so, it puts someone out of a job...

    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
    If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
  • redcogsredcogs Posts: 3,232
    Grannie Theresa (ms redcogs' side) was a strong advocate of using prisoners of a certain type for 'experiments'.. drug testing, pioneering surgery, providers of spare parts - you get the picture. She also strongly admired old Uncle Joe Stalin, and looked forward with excitement to the May Day march past of the Tanks and warheads! "Ooh, look at all those lovely medals on Gorbies chest"

    She cried when the wall came down.

    Oh dear.

    <font size="1">please look up to the stars.. </font id="size1"><font size="6"><font color="red">***</font id="red"></font id="size6">
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  • Why shouldn't we hire them out to MacDonald's or Kentucky Fried Chicken to serve fast food, thus freeing the people who currently do that work to do something less tiresome?

    OK, so customers would have to get their food through a small one-way chute of some sort to prevent inmates from absconding or being passed weapons and drugs by their friends and families on the outside... but then I don't suppose many visits to MacDonald's as it is now incorporate a discussion of the weather, do they?
  • Gary AskwithGary Askwith Posts: 1,835
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by redcogs</i>

    Grannie Theresa (ms redcogs' side) was a strong advocate of using prisoners of a certain type for 'experiments'.. drug testing, pioneering surgery, providers of spare parts - you get the picture. She also strongly admired old Uncle Joe Stalin, and looked forward with excitement to the May Day march past of the Tanks and warheads! "Ooh, look at all those lovely medals on Gorbies chest"

    She cried when the wall came down.

    Oh dear.

    <font size="1">please look up to the stars.. </font id="size1"><font size="6"><font color="red">***</font id="red"></font id="size6">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    My grandma had the perfect solution to the Northen Ireland troubles..." pack up the women and kids off and send those jet bombers over there and flatten the lot of them"
    Wonder what her solution to Iraq would be....[}:)]

    Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

    Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....
  • Joe SaccoJoe Sacco Posts: 4,907
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by NickM</i>

    Why shouldn't we hire them out to MacDonald's or Kentucky Fried Chicken to serve fast food, thus freeing the people who currently do that work to do something less tiresome?

    OK, so customers would have to get their food through a small one-way chute of some sort to prevent inmates from absconding or being passed weapons and drugs by their friends and families on the outside... but then I don't suppose many visits to MacDonald's as it is now incorporate a discussion of the weather, do they?
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Because working at MacDonalds may be the highest level some people may achive so it still puts them out of a job.

    I think we should use them to do jobs that are not currently done by anyone and areas which are maybe council responsibility but the councils don't want to budget for them. Agree they should at least be doing something constructive rather than sitting in a prison helping no-one.
  • Eat My DustEat My Dust Posts: 3,965
    When I worked at the Scottish Police College, they used to have cons do the gardening on the grounds (big old estate with castle) until someone observed that there seemed to be a lot of "work" going on around a massive set of bushes. They raised this issue with some higher power, who investigated and found that the cons were telling their wives/girlfriends when it was their turn for the gardening, and they would meet in the bushes for a bit of the other!![:I] After that, the gardening duties were stopped.

    SNAPS
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