At least there are some clean teams now....

Eurostar · May 2007

...e.g. Slipstream, CSC, T-Mobile, and all the French ones (allegedly). Maybe CSC and T-Mobile really have changed since their big dirty stars left? Perhaps we can afford to be optimistic that sponsors won't tolerate doping any more and it will die out? Is the tide turning? There seem to be a few 'abnormal' performances in the Giro this year, so it doesn't look like we have a clean peloton yet. Perhaps it's time we started supporting the French teams who have been doing so badly at the Tour in recent years...now we know why.

I read this about the Slipstream weekly testing regime in a Denver paper: "The test goes beyond what happens behind closed doors in France. The urine test is designed to detect a wide array of steroids and analyzes the body's natural steroid balance between cortisol, testosterone and all of testosterone's metabolites. The blood tests cover everything from blood volume, hermatocrit, iron count and growth hormone to the age of red blood cells, of which the artificial addition - blood doping - can create additional oxygen for better endurance. The weekly testing is crucial. EPO, the drug of choice for many cheaters, is undetectable after only six days."

Is this enough? If you were a Slipstream rider and wanted to dope, could you find a way?

Adam Hansen of T-Mobile posts at weightweenies. The other day he said that everyone in the squad is clean with the possible exception of Honchar. It sounds plausible.

I've also been wondering whether we forum members could organise a petition asking big sponsors to do Slipstream-style in-house testing if they want us to keep buying their products. Maybe we should have a pressure group of fans who want clean cycling...can anyone think of a clever name?

It seems to me that if all this is left to the sporting bodies we will never get clean racing - there will be too many stupid legal obstacles. The power is where the money is - I don't think much will change until more sponsors do a Phonak or Liberty Seguros and take their cheque books away. I would so love to see a level playing field where the likes of Boardman and Obree can compete fairly.

Eurostar · May 2007

If anyone's interested in how and why Slipstream tackle this there's a very interesting article at Velonews at www.velonews.com/news/fea/11667.0.html. I think it would be great if we could find a way to express our support for them and the Agency for Cycling Ethics www.agencyforcyclingethics.org.

Anonymous · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eurostar

...e.g. Slipstream, CSC, T-Mobile, and all the French ones (allegedly). Maybe CSC and T-Mobile really have changed since their big dirty stars left? Perhaps we can afford to be optimistic that sponsors won't tolerate doping any more and it will die out? Is the tide turning? There seem to be a few 'abnormal' performances in the Giro this year, so it doesn't look like we have a clean peloton yet. Perhaps it's time we started supporting the French teams who have been doing so badly at the Tour in recent years...now we know why.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Who do you have in mind particularly Eurostar?

Eurostar · May 2007

Far be it from me to point the finger...I leave that to the expert at www.ridetrash.com. She seems to have her doubts about the man in pink.[:0] I suppose the Italian teams can't be expected to be at the leading edge of organising the fight against doping..

Anonymous · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eurostar

Far be it from me to point the finger...I leave that to the expert at www.ridetrash.com. She seems to have her doubts about the man in pink.[:0] I suppose the Italian teams can't be expected to be at the leading edge of organising the fight against doping..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well it might be true if she says so but <s>tits</s> it's a bit speculative[;)]

DeanMoriarty · May 2007

Cycling has always been unpredictable as far as performances go, its the nature of the sport good days bad days. You put 190 guys on a bike and make ride 4000k in three weeks performances are going to vary. Is this how its going to be now, a rider does well and automatically he's pressumed to be taking drugs or enhancing his performance illegally? Because that's a crap way to watch a sport.

Eurostar · May 2007

Yes, it is a crap way. I would love to cheer for Di Luca. Trouble is, I don't think I can cheer for anybody whose team isn't conducting an internal testing regime that goes way beyond UCI testing. I can't stand the injustice to the non-dopers - who knows who the champions of the last few years should really be?

Monowai · May 2007

I don't believe any pro teams are 100% clean - with the notable exception of the British 100% ME team.

Anyone else hear Sean Yates squirm yesterday during Eurosport's Giro coverage when asked about the Riis doping affair and how it has affected his team. He went very quiet and avoided the question.

"Extensive medical studies now show that training is bad for you. Eat cake and rejoice!"

Eurostar · May 2007

So you have doubts about Slipstream?

LangerDan · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Monowai

I don't believe any pro teams are 100% clean - with the notable exception of the British 100% ME team.
Anyone else hear Sean Yates squirm yesterday during Eurosport's Giro coverage when asked about the Riis doping affair and how it has affected his team. He went very quiet and avoided the question.

"Extensive medical studies now show that training is bad for you. Eat cake and rejoice!"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How can you be any more sure about them than about Slipstream or T-Mobile or any other squad that has an enhanced testing regime? In his interview with CW, Dave Brailsford points out "Don't forget that Lottery funding is dependent on us getting medals" so even though they are an "amateur" squad the pressures to acheive results are as significant as those for a pro team. I am not in any way suggesting that there is any wrongdoing but if they chose to compete at the highest level, you cannot judge them by any criteria other than those you apply to the other teams. State funded road and track programmes in the former USSR were anything but clean and ethical.

"Hincapie's Disco pants are the best,
They go from his arse to his chest,
They're better than 'Sandro Ballans.
Hincapie's Disco pants"

Eurostar · May 2007

The thing about Slipstream's testing, which no other team seems to have, it that it's vetted by somebody independent: www.agencyforcyclingethics.org I really hope this idea gets adopted by other teams. If CSC or T-Mobile were to be scrutinised by ACE it would be a big step forward.

Typical of the innovative Americans to drag continental racing out of the dark ages. Good on 'em. If the UCI were relocated to somewhere like Boulder we might get some real progress.

afx237vi · May 2007

CSC's programme is devised by Rasmus Damsgaard, a Danish anti-doping expert who has been very outspoken in the past. He's pretty independent.

Eurostar · May 2007

Thanks, I didn't know that. Have just been reading about him here: http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=11031 Sounds good.

sylvanus · May 2007

Even so I'm pretty doubtful about several of the CSC riders. Despite the public noises, many of them like Cancellara are still seeing their old coach Cecchini. Given his frequently suspected links and Basso's statements, its hard to see Riis as taking a sincere interest in drug-free performace. T-mobile would never allow it.

I'd also agree with the suspicions about De Luca - his recent public statements do not sound like those of a "cleanie". His performance is also bizarrely improved - he would be on my list of "suspicious but unproven"

cougie · May 2007

Ah yes the innovative americans who used blood doping back to get medals at the LA olympics. And with their nice clean baseball heroes and there has been no drugs reported in american football.

Unknown · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cougie

Ah yes the innovative americans who used blood doping back to get medals at the LA olympics.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not illegal at the time though.

Unknown · May 2007

If doping has such massive effect on results, and we assume a lot of riders are still doping, why have we seen some good results from T-Mobile and CSC this year?

Is it

a) Doping doesn't have that much effect
b) The "clean" teams aren't that clean
c) The doping problem is overstated

Of course, none of these are correct but I think these internal programmes create a very very wierd view. Mick Rogers (ex-customer of Dr Ferrari) had a good result in Spain this week against a pile of riders who's names appear in Puerto.

At least there are some clean teams now....

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