Heart Rate Time Trial question...

kavcp · May 2007

For what it's worth, my 10TT target HR based on RPE is 168bpm on a maximum HR of 174 (the highest I've got it is actually 172, but I reckon there's two more beats in there...). Using the equation that NickM gave us it'd give me 160bpm which feels too easy during a 10. Might be my maths of course. Also my maxHR hasn't been tested in a lab only on my Turbo trainer and on various all out efforts on the road in TTs. I've tried to get my HR over 172 but haven't managed it yet.

SteveR_100Milers · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NickM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

OK then what is????<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Predictive formulae for maximum heart rate are statistically valid for populations but do not apply to individuals. If you have access to a turbo trainer, a heart rate monitor and a friend, you can do your own Max HR test.

The test should be progressive, so that it incorporates a good warm-up. Start in your lowest gear; establish a good cadence of about 85-90rpm. Change up one gear every two minutes, while maintaining pedal revs. (By the time you change to the big ring, you will probably be breathing hard enough to make conversation difficult - if you aren't, there is probably insufficient resistance to elicit HRmax even in top gear, so stop, increase the resistance, and start again).

During this, your helper should be keeping an eye on you and offering encouragement when it starts to get hard. Continue to change up one gear every 2 minutes. Eventually, you will be unable to maintain the workload demanded of you, and your pedal revs will start to flag. This is where having a helper becomes important. You need to be vigorously encouraged/bullied. When I did a lot of exercise testing, my preferred phrase was "Come on, give me one more minute - anybody can pedal for 1 minute!". Then, when you really cannot keep going any longer, SPRINT!! ...and at this moment (assuming that your HRM doesn't record for itself) your helper notes the highest heart rate achieved.

As you can imagine, this is a fairly unpleasant business (far worse than a race). If you are over 45, or have any risk factors for heart disease, you should see your GP for clearance before doing it. And finally, to protect myself from any possibility of litigation, I am not suggesting in this posting that you do it!

Having established your Maximum HR, if you want to emulate the pros in short time trials (and there is no reason why you shouldn't try as hard as they do, even if you won't go as fast) you need to be riding at ~90% of VO2max.

You probably don't have access to VO2max measurement, but that need not stop you. Heart rate reserve (HRR) is linearly related to VO2 in the exercise intensity domain in question, so you can try riding at 90% of your HRR and you won't be far off.

90% HRR = (0.9 x (Maximum HR - Resting HR)) + Resting HR

e.g. Max HR 185, Resting HR 45:

(0.9 x (185 - 45)) + 45 = 171bpm target for 90% VO2max

In this example, 171bpm is 92% of Max HR

Having said this, I do agree with a previous poster that heart rate, because of normal physiological and environmental variations, is not the last word in quantifying exercise intensity - and research shows that RPE is a surprisingly precise way of reproducing a learned level of effort.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This thread perhaps ought to be in training, but I really cannot see that many, if any but the most motivated (and likely already an elite or pro athlete who would therefore do this as a proper lab ramp test) rider has the motivation to find their MHR on a turbo trainer!!?? How on earth can anything involving a turbo trainer be harder than racing for us mere mortals?

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

nmcgann · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SteveR_100Milers

Now to me this is the same possible dilemma - is this really based on a correct MHR..??? .....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

...and there's the rub, I don't know. I've never seen more than 178bpm on the road and that was chasing a pack up hill - and I blew soon after so I was definately at or very close to my limit. From this I've assumed that my MHR is around 180bpm. Yet I averaged 175bpm for a 10, so I'm wondering if my MHR is higher than I thought.

The problem is I'm not sure it's really possible to generalise numbers to suit everyone, the variability of human performance characteristics is so great.

Neil

Mark.Scp · May 2007

hi,

imo you shouldnt restrict your pace/power output in tt's due to HR. My theory is go as hard as i can, and keep pushing when i am tired xD

I am nackered over the line... which is the way it should be

If i was concentrating on keeping my HR within certain zones, this would definately decrease success.

Just concentrate on the road ahead, and get over it as fast as possible xD

Mark

In sport, losing is the end of the world .....
la marmotte xD

Mark.Scp · May 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mark.S

hi,

imo you shouldnt restrict your pace/power output in tt's due to HR. My theory is go as hard as i can, and keep pushing when i am tired xD

I am nackered over the line... which is the way it should be

If i was concentrating on keeping my HR within certain zones, this would definately effect my performance

Just concentrate on the road ahead, and get over it as fast as possible xD

Mark

In sport, losing is the end of the world .....
la marmotte xD

In sport, losing is the end of the world .....
la marmotte xD

dsoutar · May 2007

Unfortunately I had to dash off Friday for along weekend just as the thread was getting exciting. However I notice that Nick didn't come back to my offer of a bet.

The problem is that you get these people who post all sorts of rubbish based on what they read somewhere yet can't cope with actual evidence. I think Neil put it best:

"The problem is I'm not sure it's really possible to generalise numbers to suit everyone, the variability of human performance characteristics is so great."

Unknown · May 2007

My rubbish is based on the six years I spent studying exercise physiology and conducting tests in a research laboratory.

Why would I give a toss if you prefer ignorance?

ClaireV · May 2007

We don't all prefer ignorance. Some of us asked you serious questions and you've left us in ignorance!

stevejmo7 · May 2007

After my 7th tt of this year I took my heart monitor off. I had been working on 160 - 165 for 10s (max about 180) but found that on one I couldn't get it over 152 no matter how knackered my legs felt. At this point I decided that it was counter-productive and took it off. I now work on how I feel and whether I think I can sustain the current effort for the rest of the race (allowing for hills etc making me go beyond that point for a while of course). I think that this has taken some of the worry out of it and I just get on and 'enjoy' it.

ClaireV · May 2007

I agree with you on that one steve. I've worn a HRM for the 4 TT's I've done this year, and I'm sure it's made me go slower. I decided after the last one that I'm not going to wear it any more. I'll be interested to see what happens. Unfortunately it was chucking it down with rain tonight, so I didn't get to test my theory - I'm not game enough to go hurtling up and down the A40 in a toreential downpour.

dsoutar · May 2007

So NickM, as you are an expert, please explain my results. I'm quite happy to email you them. At least back up what you're saying. If I have been misinformed then I want to know.

Heart Rate Time Trial question...

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