BREXIT - Meh.

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Rolf F
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Rolf F » Fri May 17, 2019 14:01 pm

Rick Chasey wrote:So which PM candidate improves the Brexit situation?

I can't see any likely candidate that doesn't make it worse. Any suggestions?


No, utterly woeful that TM is, she is streets ahead of the pond life surrounding her. Actually, that's a huge insult to pond life which is at least likeable but anyway. Yes, bad news unless you are at least slightly unhinged.
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TailWindHome
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby TailWindHome » Fri May 17, 2019 15:27 pm

john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?
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rjsterry
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby rjsterry » Fri May 17, 2019 16:17 pm

TailWindHome wrote:
john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?

I mean all over the news is "Tory Brexiters welcome collapse of cross party talks". One might even think a Brexiter was someone who didn't want to leave the EU.
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Robert88
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Robert88 » Fri May 17, 2019 16:19 pm

john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


Didn't the Tories have a clear majority once, in between the neverendum and this point in time? I wonder why they no longer do so?

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Stevo 666
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Stevo 666 » Fri May 17, 2019 20:27 pm

TailWindHome wrote:
john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?

Some might say it is the inability of parliament to agree a way forward.
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TailWindHome
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby TailWindHome » Fri May 17, 2019 20:59 pm

Stevo 666 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:
john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?

Some might say it is the inability of parliament to agree a way forward.


The PM has negotiated a deal which is leaving the EU, avoids the damage of a no deal, avoids a hard border in Ireland, includes agreement on EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, leaves the door open for either a GB FTA or UK close alignment and has the agreement of 27 other heads of state. It also ends Freedom of movement.

Achieving that and doing it in under 2 years has been an enormous achievement.

Her own party won't vote for it.

The oppositon can't be blamed if the governing party won't vote for government policy.

It's bonkers.
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john80
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby john80 » Fri May 17, 2019 21:44 pm

TailWindHome wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:
john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?

Some might say it is the inability of parliament to agree a way forward.


The PM has negotiated a deal which is leaving the EU, avoids the damage of a no deal, avoids a hard border in Ireland, includes agreement on EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, leaves the door open for either a GB FTA or UK close alignment and has the agreement of 27 other heads of state. It also ends Freedom of movement.

Achieving that and doing it in under 2 years has been an enormous achievement.

Her own party won't vote for it.

The oppositon can't be blamed if the governing party won't vote for government policy.

It's bonkers.


The opposition have done everything in their power to prevent leaving by even voting against a deal so soft that the erg would not vote for. They will likely by judged harshly at the next election.

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TailWindHome
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby TailWindHome » Fri May 17, 2019 22:07 pm

john80 wrote:
The opposition have done everything in their power to prevent leaving by even voting against a deal so soft that the erg would not vote for. They will likely by judged harshly at the next election.


Brexit supporting Labour voters will punish Labour for voting against the Brexit deal by voting for the Brexit Party that Brexiteers formed to oppose the deal.

The will of the people.
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DrHaggis
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby DrHaggis » Fri May 17, 2019 22:10 pm

john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:
john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?

Some might say it is the inability of parliament to agree a way forward.


The PM has negotiated a deal which is leaving the EU, avoids the damage of a no deal, avoids a hard border in Ireland, includes agreement on EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, leaves the door open for either a GB FTA or UK close alignment and has the agreement of 27 other heads of state. It also ends Freedom of movement.

Achieving that and doing it in under 2 years has been an enormous achievement.

Her own party won't vote for it.

The oppositon can't be blamed if the governing party won't vote for government policy.

It's bonkers.


The opposition have done everything in their power to prevent leaving by even voting against a deal so soft that the erg would not vote for. They will likely by judged harshly at the next election.


That the deal is now considered soft is an amazing reframing of opinion.

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rjsterry
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby rjsterry » Fri May 17, 2019 23:32 pm

john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:
john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?

Some might say it is the inability of parliament to agree a way forward.


The PM has negotiated a deal which is leaving the EU, avoids the damage of a no deal, avoids a hard border in Ireland, includes agreement on EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, leaves the door open for either a GB FTA or UK close alignment and has the agreement of 27 other heads of state. It also ends Freedom of movement.

Achieving that and doing it in under 2 years has been an enormous achievement.

Her own party won't vote for it.

The oppositon can't be blamed if the governing party won't vote for government policy.

It's bonkers.


The opposition have done everything in their power to prevent leaving by even voting against a deal so soft that the erg would not vote for. They will likely by judged harshly at the next election.


Frankly, who cares? Corbyn is as ineffectual a leader as May. Neither party appears capable of governing at the moment, never mind whether either of them should.
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Robert88
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Robert88 » Sat May 18, 2019 05:23 am

The UK has blown its chances.

We are perfectly poised to become a vassal state in the US sphere of influence. The alternative does not exist for. Brexit Britain.

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orraloon
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby orraloon » Sat May 18, 2019 11:19 am

Robert88 wrote:The UK has blown its chances.

We are perfectly poised to become a vassal state in the US sphere of influence. The alternative does not exist for. Brexit Britain.

To become? That stretched limo arrived some time ago.

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Mr Goo
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Mr Goo » Sat May 18, 2019 11:30 am

TailWindHome wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:
john80 wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

Labour-Tory Brexit talks end without deal


This will go down in their leave constituencies well. Maybe they will lap up the bull that it is all the Tories fault we have not left the EU yet.


I'm not sure I follow your thinking.
Who's fault do you think it is we haven't left yet?

Some might say it is the inability of parliament to agree a way forward.


The PM has negotiated a deal which is leaving the EU, avoids the damage of a no deal, avoids a hard border in Ireland, includes agreement on EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU, leaves the door open for either a GB FTA or UK close alignment and has the agreement of 27 other heads of state. It also ends Freedom of movement.

Achieving that and doing it in under 2 years has been an enormous achievement.

Her own party won't vote for it.

The oppositon can't be blamed if the governing party won't vote for government policy.

It's bonkers.


Negotiated? At what point of this process has the PM negotiated anything? Worst PM in living memory. And that's saying something when we've had John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown..... Hold on a minute. They've all been bl00dy awful.
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Jez mon
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Jez mon » Sat May 18, 2019 13:19 pm

Worst pm in living memory?

Cameron surely.

This is Cameron's mess, he gambled everything to stem off the potential loss of a few seats to UKIP.

Not to say that May is any good as a prime minister. I think she's negotiated an OK deal, certainly the best that could be hoped for given her red lines, and the relative size of both parties.
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PBlakeney
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby PBlakeney » Sat May 18, 2019 13:36 pm

The options are fairly straightforward even if people try to blur the lines.
1. The utter chaos of leaving without a deal.
2. The deal which is not as chaotic as no deal but not as good as remaining.
3. Revoke A50 and deal with the voter chaos.

Nothing good there. Cheers shiny Dave. :evil:
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morstar
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby morstar » Sat May 18, 2019 13:49 pm

PBlakeney wrote:The options are fairly straightforward even if people try to blur the lines.
1. The utter chaos of leaving without a deal.
2. The deal which is not as chaotic as no deal but not as good as remaining.
3. Revoke A50 and deal with the voter chaos.

Nothing good there. Cheers shiny Dave. :evil:

This. And if there is a referendum, those 3 options have to be there.
I don't see who is ever going to put forward a referendum who may actually have the power to do so but conversely, I can't see how we move forward without one.
No deal may still be the default but parliament has repeatedly refused to accept no deal. If (big if) parliament can actually force a blockage of no deal (I have no idea if this possible), then surely a 2nd ref on those options is inevitable. If a brexit pm is able to simply time things out against parliaments wishes, then no deal does seem worryingly likely.

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Stevo 666
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Stevo 666 » Sat May 18, 2019 14:06 pm

Robert88 wrote:The UK has blown its chances.

We are perfectly poised to become a vassal state in the US sphere of influence. The alternative does not exist for. Brexit Britain.

Looking at the definition, it would appear that the main argument here is whose vassal we want to be. And one may be more vassal-ish than the other :wink:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassal_state
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DrHaggis
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby DrHaggis » Sat May 18, 2019 16:29 pm

morstar wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:The options are fairly straightforward even if people try to blur the lines.
1. The utter chaos of leaving without a deal.
2. The deal which is not as chaotic as no deal but not as good as remaining.
3. Revoke A50 and deal with the voter chaos.

Nothing good there. Cheers shiny Dave. :evil:

This. And if there is a referendum, those 3 options have to be there.


Why? Parliament is sovereign. Parliament has voted against no deal, and I believe more than once.

morstar
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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby morstar » Sat May 18, 2019 17:05 pm

DrHaggis wrote:
morstar wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:The options are fairly straightforward even if people try to blur the lines.
1. The utter chaos of leaving without a deal.
2. The deal which is not as chaotic as no deal but not as good as remaining.
3. Revoke A50 and deal with the voter chaos.

Nothing good there. Cheers shiny Dave. :evil:

This. And if there is a referendum, those 3 options have to be there.


Why? Parliament is sovereign. Parliament has voted against no deal, and I believe more than once.


Parliament has voted against everything repeatedly.

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Re: BREXIT - Time to Pick Your Next MEP

Postby Cruff » Sat May 18, 2019 19:37 pm

Jez mon wrote:Worst pm in living memory?

Cameron surely.

This is Cameron's mess, he gambled everything to stem off the potential loss of a few seats to UKIP.

Not to say that May is any good as a prime minister. I think she's negotiated an OK deal, certainly the best that could be hoped for given her red lines, and the relative size of both parties.

Yeah.

It's not even close, tbh. Cameron created the biggest clusterf**k in the history of British politics as a vanity project. He should be in the Tower
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