Drugs in other sports and the media.

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redvision
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby redvision » Sat Oct 12, 2019 17:17 pm

SpecialGuestStar wrote:Under two hour marathon in this climate is both a good time and bad timing


True. Such a sad state of affairs that immediately after he broke the record Twitter was rife with accusations of how he achieved such a feat.

It seems we now live in a time when any/ every sporting success is apparently only achieved by doping :(

andyp
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby andyp » Sat Oct 12, 2019 18:13 pm

To be fair, given the attempt was sponsored by Ineos, the use of chemical assistance would be good marketing.

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RichN95
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby RichN95 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 22:04 pm

andyp wrote:To be fair, given the attempt was sponsored by Ineos, the use of chemical assistance would be good marketing.

I think Ineos's chemicals would be more a hindrance than a help.
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RichN95
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby RichN95 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 22:09 pm

redvision wrote:
SpecialGuestStar wrote:Under two hour marathon in this climate is both a good time and bad timing


True. Such a sad state of affairs that immediately after he broke the record Twitter was rife with accusations of how he achieved such a feat.

It seems we now live in a time when any/ every sporting success is apparently only achieved by doping :(

I someone came up with a pill that cures most of the worlds diseases there would be people on twitter saying it was fake or some 'big pharma plot' and there would be tabloid newspapers scouring his personal life from thirty years ago to find some scandal. And I say 'his' because if it was a woman, they'd find a man to give the credit to.
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RichN95
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby RichN95 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 22:44 pm

If there's a team triathlon in the Olympics, then Kenya are just looking for a moderate swimmer

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SpecialGuestStar
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby SpecialGuestStar » Sat Oct 12, 2019 22:53 pm

'If it starts getting too hot , run into a wall'

andyp
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby andyp » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:56 am

RichN95 wrote:If there's a team triathlon in the Olympics, then Kenya are just looking for a moderate swimmer

Image


:D

Look at Froome though. He's been off the bike for four months, yet doesn't look like he's even close to being overweight. I know he's getting on, but his professionalism and motivation seem undimmed.

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Alejandrosdog
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby Alejandrosdog » Sun Oct 13, 2019 14:00 pm

andyp wrote:
RichN95 wrote:If there's a team triathlon in the Olympics, then Kenya are just looking for a moderate swimmer

Image


:D

Look at Froome though. He's been off the bike for four months, yet doesn't look like he's even close to being overweight. I know he's getting on, but his professionalism and motivation seem undimmed.


Froome looks horribly thin. My personal view is he doesnt look healthy.

awavey
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby awavey » Sun Oct 13, 2019 15:26 pm

speaking of marathons, Kenyans & records falling...I note the womens marathon world record is now 2:14:04 set by Brigid Kosgei at the Chicago marathon.

bobmcstuff
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby bobmcstuff » Sun Oct 13, 2019 19:31 pm

RichN95 wrote:
andyp wrote:To be fair, given the attempt was sponsored by Ineos, the use of chemical assistance would be good marketing.

I think Ineos's chemicals would be more a hindrance than a help.

They did have a pace car in front of the pack pointing a laser at the track, that probably used some Ineos chemicals (he had multiple teams of 7 pacers running a TT in front of him...)

When you look at the assistance it's pretty interesting he only shaved ~2 mins off his official record. I guess he's just right at the limits of what's possible.

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phreak
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby phreak » Mon Oct 14, 2019 08:07 am

bobmcstuff wrote:
RichN95 wrote:
andyp wrote:To be fair, given the attempt was sponsored by Ineos, the use of chemical assistance would be good marketing.

I think Ineos's chemicals would be more a hindrance than a help.

They did have a pace car in front of the pack pointing a laser at the track, that probably used some Ineos chemicals (he had multiple teams of 7 pacers running a TT in front of him...)

When you look at the assistance it's pretty interesting he only shaved ~2 mins off his official record. I guess he's just right at the limits of what's possible.


Don't a lot of marathons employ pace makers for a similar reason? Granted, they perhaps aren't quite so blatant as in this attempt, but still. What seemed most remarkable was just how fresh he looked at the end. Looked like he could have gone round again.

TimothyW
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby TimothyW » Mon Oct 14, 2019 08:40 am

I think it's fair to say that he could have gone a bit quicker under those conditions, as you say, given how fresh he looked at the end - there was a brief spell in the midpoint where he came slightly behind the pace but otherwise running at a steady pace and completely sheltered from the wind, will be considerably easier than an actual marathon race, where the pace will surge and where much of the time you are setting your own pace and in the wind.

More impressive this weekend was Kosgei's new womens record, four minutes off her previous best, and a minute and a half off Paula's record (which let's be honest, lots of people thought suspicious, particularly in combination with the suspicious bio passport revelations a couple of years back...)

Certainly we seem to be in a new era, where, for whatever reason, feats previously thought near impossible can happen twice in one weekend.

Is it the new shoes, like those swimming costumes a few years back providing a big technical advantage? Is it these new lactate buffer products that Lance keeps shilling on his youtube? Or is it a new EPO type drug?

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ShinyHelmut
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby ShinyHelmut » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:53 am

phreak wrote:Don't a lot of marathons employ pace makers for a similar reason? Granted, they perhaps aren't quite so blatant as in this attempt, but still. What seemed most remarkable was just how fresh he looked at the end. Looked like he could have gone round again.


They do, and Berlin did when Kipchoge beat the world record last year but they had all dropped off earlier than planned (by 25K I think) so nearly half of the race was run solo. He looked equally fresh afterwards, sprinting from the finish line and leaping (literally) into his coach's arms.

Likewise Bekele, who came within 2 secs of the record this year raan the bulk of the race solo, having been dropped by the pacemakers' group then running through the remains of the field in the last 10K or so.

Personally I'd love to see Bekele, Kipchoge and Kamworor all lined up at the same marathon rather than all racing separately. Maybe London next year...

Meanwhile Sir Mo finished closer to the winning lady than he did to the winning man, and Galen Rupp dropped out. I don't think this Oregon Project debacle has helped their preparation.

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ShinyHelmut
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby ShinyHelmut » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:12 pm

Of course Briged Kosgei and Lawrence Cherono, the 2 winners at Chicago, are both managed by Frederico Rosa, who has been associated with a number of banned Kenyan athletes.

sherer
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby sherer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:56 pm

i still dont get this marthon thing. Guy is allowed to break the rules and therefore breaks a record, but it wont count as he broke the rules.

In that case I might as well get sponsorship from Amgem and Specialised and ride Le Tour a week early jacked up on EPO and on an e-bike

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Alejandrosdog
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby Alejandrosdog » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:59 pm

sherer wrote:i still dont get this marthon thing. Guy is allowed to break the rules and therefore breaks a record, but it wont count as he broke the rules.

In that case I might as well get sponsorship from Amgem and Specialised and ride Le Tour a week early jacked up on EPO and on an e-bike


Its just to demonstrate that the human body can do what no one thought it could. An amazing feat. I wouldn't be surprised if having been broken once there will be a slew of sub 2 hour performances now. Much like the bannister 4 minute mile.

KingstonGraham
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby KingstonGraham » Mon Oct 14, 2019 13:28 pm

Gatlin did the 100m in 9.45 seconds but that didn't count because of a tail wind. Not much different, they are both insanely fast despite conditions that make them ineligible for records.

Of course, 2:01:39 is still insanely fast.
and then the next thing you know

Shirley Basso
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby Shirley Basso » Mon Oct 14, 2019 13:29 pm

sherer wrote:i still dont get this marthon thing. Guy is allowed to break the rules and therefore breaks a record, but it wont count as he broke the rules.

In that case I might as well get sponsorship from Amgem and Specialised and ride Le Tour a week early jacked up on EPO and on an e-bike


He doesn't break a record. It is a milestone in human achievement but it is not a world record, because it is in breach of the rules.

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M.R.M.
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby M.R.M. » Mon Oct 14, 2019 13:36 pm

TimothyW wrote:Is it the new shoes, like those swimming costumes a few years back providing a big technical advantage? Is it these new lactate buffer products that Lance keeps shilling on his youtube? Or is it a new EPO type drug?

Think the carbon plates in the new shoes do work somewhat similar to the famous Oscar Pistorius carbon blades. They are supposed to improve running efficiency by more than 6%, so it's only logical that we will see sub 2 hour marathon in real world conditions in the next few years.

Did Kipchoge use a Keto drink like Alaphilippe and others during the TDF on this try? Would only seem logical again to use an additional fuel source.

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inseine
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Re: Drugs in other sports and the media.

Postby inseine » Mon Oct 14, 2019 14:15 pm

sherer wrote:i still dont get this marthon thing. Guy is allowed to break the rules and therefore breaks a record, but it wont count as he broke the rules.

In that case I might as well get sponsorship from Amgem and Specialised and ride Le Tour a week early jacked up on EPO and on an e-bike

Surely he would only have broken the rules if he's stated he was competing under a set of rules he'd then broken? Your analogy doesn't work because there is already ebike racing, but they don't do the TdF!


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