Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

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Hendrix2430
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 09:28 am

Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby Hendrix2430 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 07:26 am

Hi,

I'm looking at the two trainers below, the Cycleops Fluid 2 and Elite Main Direct Driver. I don't really want to spend more than the latter to be honest...

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/elite-turbo-mui ... e-trainer/

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycleops-fluid-2-trainer/

To start the Cycleops is very popular and proven for being an all around great low-mid range turbo. On the other hand the Elite doesn't have nearly as many reviews.

The main difference is that the Elite is a direct driver, which supposedly is more quiet and road realistic. I live in a flat, so something as quiet is possible is important!

Neither are smart trainers, although I have read they could be turned into smart-ish ones. This is confusing to me and is likely to be steering me in a direction before I pull the trigger.

I want to be able to use the turbo and at minimum record my workouts on strava - with all the usual data and also virtual power via trainer road for instance. What extra gear would I need for this and is this even possible on these turbos? I read that the Elite worked with a proprietary sensor which doesn't work well...

Secondly, but not 100% mandatory, I would like to be able to use zwift down the line, and use both the workout and race features. IS this doable with those turbos, and if so what things will i need as add ons?

Thank you so much for your help!

Hendrix2430
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 09:28 am

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby Hendrix2430 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 07:39 am

Also, with either of those turbos : Would I be able to use either a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt or an iphone with strava on the handlebars, and a Wahoo Speed and Cadence Sensor to get workouts with data onto strava / work with zwift?

philthy3
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 16:22 pm

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby philthy3 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 08:43 am

The Elite Turbo Muin requires a B+ unit to be a smart trainer. It's been surpassed now by the Kura now which also has an inbuilt power meter that is very accurate. It's still a good turbo though and one I considered before plumping for the Kura. Being direct mount, it doesn't suffer with the slippage a wheel on trainer can suffer with, doesn't spray tyre bits over everything and is pretty quiet. A fluid trainer gives a very realistic feeling. You can still find the Kura at cheap prices if you shop around, but the Muin B+ is still a good buy.

It will connect to an Elemnt and if you have an Elemnt, why do you need to connect to an iPhone when the Elemnt will upload to Strava? TrainerRoad will detect your Wahoo sensors as will Zwift and both will upload to Strava. TrainerRoad won't give you any distance or speed info as it is a structured program designed to improve your performance more than being an arcade game. Nothing wrong with Zwift if you need moving pictures on the screen, but for proper workouts, I prefer TrainerRoad. If I just want to pedal, there's the road or the rollers.
We're all buffoons; some slightly less than others.

Hendrix2430
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 09:28 am

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby Hendrix2430 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 16:15 pm

Thanks for the reply!

I've pulled the trigger on the muin 2 direct turbo, looking forward to it!

Reason why I mentioned Strava and iPhone is because for now, that's what I'm using. I'm planning on getting an Elemnt Bolt shortly though.

If I understand correctly, you can turn the Muin into a smart-ish turbo by installing the Elite B+ unit. The only difference will be that gradients won't be automatically adjusted on the turbo. Is that correct?


Also, lets say I want to get speed, distance and cadence data, AND upload to Strava as a workout, i assume all I need then is any speed/cadence sensor (like the Garmin or wahoo that go on the cranks), correct?

Then if i want power data, and race on zwift, will my only option be to buy the elite B+ unit? Or would I be able to simulate power on trainer road only with a wahoo speed and cadence for example?

Lastly, if I install the B+ unit, would I be able to use other sensors for speed and cadence?

It's all a bit complicated... thanks a lot for the help!

philthy3
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 16:22 pm

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby philthy3 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 07:47 am

Zwift will convert your wheel speed v weight into virtual power and speed. You need to be honest with your weight though. Any ANT+ or Bluetooth sensors should work. Be mindful that Zwift doesn't like Bluetooth on windows systems.
We're all buffoons; some slightly less than others.

JGSI
Posts: 5025
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 15:09 pm

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby JGSI » Thu Aug 10, 2017 09:03 am

philthy3 wrote:Zwift will convert your wheel speed v weight into virtual power and speed. You need to be honest with your weight though. Any ANT+ or Bluetooth sensors should work. Be mindful that Zwift doesn't like Bluetooth on windows systems.


Like that happens lol....
Looking at Zwift, you could hardly believe that the western world has an 'obesity' problem .

Hendrix2430
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 09:28 am

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby Hendrix2430 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:12 am

I would use a mac most likely. So if one can use any sensors to get on zwift then what is the purpose of the B+ unit?

philthy3
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Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby philthy3 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 07:36 am

Hendrix2430 wrote:I would use a mac most likely. So if one can use any sensors to get on zwift then what is the purpose of the B+ unit?


Well you can't use a wheel speed sensor on a direct drive turbo so would need the B+ unit to relay wheel speed.
We're all buffoons; some slightly less than others.

agentorange88
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby agentorange88 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 22:48 pm

Been looking at a trainer myself. Am I right that even with the B+sensor there is no resistance change when using zwift and you hit a hill with the muni?

If that's the case how much less enjoyable is zwift on this type of trainer?

TimothyW
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Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby TimothyW » Sat Aug 12, 2017 23:51 pm

You are correct - how much less enjoyment this conveys is largely down to you.

Your avatar - that is your virtual self on the screen of Zwift - will slow down as you hit the incline, so on seeing that I find that I naturally shift into a harder gear in order to keep the pace up (I have a turbo muin with Misuro smart sensor)

I can only assume that with a smart trainer that varies resistance, you hit a hill and it becomes harder to turn the pedals. I'd imagine in response to this you then would shift to an easier gear, but ultimately you'd probably be working a bit harder than you were on the flat.

Given that you're probably going to be shifting gears with either option, and either way it's going to get harder to turn the pedals, personally I didn't feel it was worth it to put in the considerable additional expense of a direct drive turbo that also varies resistance, and in practice I don't think it has affected my enjoyment at all.

IMHO the reason to buy a turbo trainer that varies resistance is to get 'ergo' mode (which automatically varies resistance to try and force you to pedal at the wattages demanded by your training program). Most people don't use this mode, and would probably be better off using a bit of imagination...

agentorange88
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby agentorange88 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 07:20 am

Thanks Timothyw. That's very helpfull.

I had a go on a turbo at the London nocturne and as you say as the gradient increased there was a destinct change of resistance.

I'm with you on the cost, best muin with smart b+ is 290 Best ergo mode I can find is 600. Think the best way is go entry level and take it from there. And get used to changing up when I hit the hills.

davetex
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 11:02 am

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby davetex » Sat Aug 19, 2017 16:16 pm

I've the muin with b+ which I use with trainer road, really like it so far. Only thing I'd maybe do is get a narrower cassette for the trainer, so smaller jumps between powers

Hendrix2430
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 09:28 am

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby Hendrix2430 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:31 am

Got the Muin, and it's all working nicely with the misuro B+ unit. Trainerroad works flawlessly as well so really happy overall! Can't wait to try zwift with it...

agentorange88
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby agentorange88 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 19:21 pm

got a Muin last week eventuall got it to work with zwift having clocked 1200 watts at one point at 80rpm in 3rd from bottom gear!
Seems you have to select it as a power meter and not a smart or basic trainer

philthy3
Posts: 4994
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 16:22 pm

Re: Confused : Cycleops Fluid2 vs Elite Turbo Muin Direct

Postby philthy3 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 20:28 pm

agentorange88 wrote:got a Muin last week eventuall got it to work with zwift having clocked 1200 watts at one point at 80rpm in 3rd from bottom gear!
Seems you have to select it as a power meter and not a smart or basic trainer


Gets you a nice trophy though for hitting 1200 watts :D
We're all buffoons; some slightly less than others.


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