If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

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If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Leave with no deal
12
9%
Leave only with a deal (eg May's deal or thereabouts)
4
3%
Remain in the EU
113
88%
 
Total votes: 129

Imposter
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Imposter » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:26 am

Longshot wrote:Come on Leave, persuade me. I'm open to the concept, just tell me what the real benefits are and how we get them.


Like any other cult, you have to believe before you can see the benefits.

HaydenM
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby HaydenM » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:36 am

Imposter wrote:
Longshot wrote:Come on Leave, persuade me. I'm open to the concept, just tell me what the real benefits are and how we get them.


Like any other cult, you have to believe before you can see the benefits.


I can see the benefit of running our own land use grants rather than using CAP, but I don't think that it's worth the risk, and I don't trust UK politicians to do it any better than EU ones. The only benefit of the EU ones is that the pace of policy swing is much slower than the UK switching between Trump and Corbyn every few years.

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mfin
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby mfin » Fri Sep 13, 2019 14:09 pm

rjsterry wrote:You can't even say whether it really is representative of Cakestop readers.


No, and that is why I answered "No, it tells me who clicked on what. I knew that. Common sense. Not too challenging".

The clue is in my words as to what I meant.

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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby NitrousOxide » Fri Sep 13, 2019 14:15 pm

Having only just seen this thread and having not looked at other replies, I'll be surprised if I'm the only one who regrets voting leave in 2016, not taking the time to look up the claims by both sides prior to voting and being suckered in by bits like that ****** lying bus.
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mfin
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby mfin » Fri Sep 13, 2019 14:37 pm

Shortfall wrote:
mfin wrote:
Shortfall wrote:
rjsterry wrote:, I don't hang around in cake stop enough to even imagine it has been voted like it has.

You have 848 posts in Cakestop so it's a bit of a stretch to try and sustain the argument that you were unaware of it's Remain bias. When you ask a question in an echo chamber it's sort of predictable that everyone is going to agree with you. Try conducting a similar survey in a pub in Wakefield or Hull and let us know how you get on. This thread appears to be just an excuse for you to smear Leave voters as angry, racist Gammons whilst positioning yourself as being really cool and chilled out about the whole thing. The Brexit thread already exists if all you wanted was some more confirmation bias.


Yeah, I don't have many posts on brexit or politics do I though? Neither do I spend a wink of my time trying to suss out any trends of political leanings on here. So, I have no idea it is an echo chamber. You really are just making up what I think and getting it wrong all the time, so why not stop guessing, relax and assume I say what I mean.

This thread is a bunch of people discussing things, if you don't like it or find it a bit annoying then my suggestion is you relax and breathe out. I'm not trying to paint myself as being "really cool and chilled out about the whole thing", I genuinely don't have any emotional investment in it myself. If other people, or any section of the population want to get all red faced and angry about brexit then I must admit I find that pretty pathetic. People should be able to look at the subject of brexit without getting all wound up and pissy.

Anyway, here and there you do keep trying to make out I am saying something I am not. Don't worry yourself. Sending you a big kiss and hoping you have a lovely weekend in the sun!

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Stevo 666
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Stevo 666 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:24 pm

Shortfall wrote:
mfin wrote:
Shortfall wrote:
rjsterry wrote:, I don't hang around in cake stop enough to even imagine it has been voted like it has.

You have 848 posts in Cakestop so it's a bit of a stretch to try and sustain the argument that you were unaware of it's Remain bias. When you ask a question in an echo chamber it's sort of predictable that everyone is going to agree with you. Try conducting a similar survey in a pub in Wakefield or Hull and let us know how you get on. This thread appears to be just an excuse for you to smear Leave voters as angry, racist Gammons whilst positioning yourself as being really cool and chilled out about the whole thing. The Brexit thread already exists if all you wanted was some more confirmation bias.

:)

To be fair, he's not the only one.
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orraloon
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby orraloon » Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:33 pm

Pot. Stir. Da boy can't help it.

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Stevo 666
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Stevo 666 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 22:13 pm

orraloon wrote:Pot. Stir. Da boy can't help it.

No, but interesting to see who responded to that comment :wink:
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Surrey Commuter » Sat Sep 14, 2019 06:05 am

Longshot wrote:
Daniel B wrote:Richard Dawkins applying his usual logical approach, and summarising my thoughts perfectly for me.

Richard Dawkins wrote:“I am deeply pessimistic,” he says, reflecting on British prime minister Boris Johnson’s latest manoeuvrings. “I think the Brexiteers started out by having a belief it would be a good thing; it has become a religion now. It has become a faith. It has become a creed... It has become like religious zeal. They are determined to get Brexit even if they destroy the country, and Scotland breaks away in the process. It’s a form of madness.”



Much as I dislike Richard Dawkins, he's got a point here or at least that's the way it seems. A lot of Leavers had rational and creditable reasons for their choice. I'm hearing less of those now and just rhetoric about how it must be done whatever the outcome. Come on Leave, persuade me. I'm open to the concept, just tell me what the real benefits are and how we get them.


I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.

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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby antonyfromoz » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:41 am

Surrey Commuter wrote:
Longshot wrote:
Daniel B wrote:Richard Dawkins applying his usual logical approach, and summarising my thoughts perfectly for me.

Richard Dawkins wrote:“I am deeply pessimistic,” he says, reflecting on British prime minister Boris Johnson’s latest manoeuvrings. “I think the Brexiteers started out by having a belief it would be a good thing; it has become a religion now. It has become a faith. It has become a creed... It has become like religious zeal. They are determined to get Brexit even if they destroy the country, and Scotland breaks away in the process. It’s a form of madness.”



Much as I dislike Richard Dawkins, he's got a point here or at least that's the way it seems. A lot of Leavers had rational and creditable reasons for their choice. I'm hearing less of those now and just rhetoric about how it must be done whatever the outcome. Come on Leave, persuade me. I'm open to the concept, just tell me what the real benefits are and how we get them.


I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.


Never publicly and certainly never for the common folk but I am totally confident that the "improvements" they would like to introduce to make the UK's economy "more competitive" will certainly have a positive effect on their personal economies and those of their friends/people in the know. And if this doesn't work out then Farage at least has stated that he will simply leave: https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-f ... ve-abroad/

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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Rolf F » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:10 am

Surrey Commuter wrote:
Longshot wrote:
Daniel B wrote:Richard Dawkins applying his usual logical approach, and summarising my thoughts perfectly for me.

Richard Dawkins wrote:“I am deeply pessimistic,” he says, reflecting on British prime minister Boris Johnson’s latest manoeuvrings. “I think the Brexiteers started out by having a belief it would be a good thing; it has become a religion now. It has become a faith. It has become a creed... It has become like religious zeal. They are determined to get Brexit even if they destroy the country, and Scotland breaks away in the process. It’s a form of madness.”



Much as I dislike Richard Dawkins, he's got a point here or at least that's the way it seems. A lot of Leavers had rational and creditable reasons for their choice. I'm hearing less of those now and just rhetoric about how it must be done whatever the outcome. Come on Leave, persuade me. I'm open to the concept, just tell me what the real benefits are and how we get them.


I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.


I think it was all about "taking back control" and then popping over to Europe and grovelling a trade deal out of them that reflected our power, status and wealth in the world (ie a pretty poor trade deal from our perspective).
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Surrey Commuter » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:58 am

Rolf F wrote:
Surrey Commuter wrote:
Longshot wrote:
Daniel B wrote:Richard Dawkins applying his usual logical approach, and summarising my thoughts perfectly for me.

Richard Dawkins wrote:“I am deeply pessimistic,” he says, reflecting on British prime minister Boris Johnson’s latest manoeuvrings. “I think the Brexiteers started out by having a belief it would be a good thing; it has become a religion now. It has become a faith. It has become a creed... It has become like religious zeal. They are determined to get Brexit even if they destroy the country, and Scotland breaks away in the process. It’s a form of madness.”



Much as I dislike Richard Dawkins, he's got a point here or at least that's the way it seems. A lot of Leavers had rational and creditable reasons for their choice. I'm hearing less of those now and just rhetoric about how it must be done whatever the outcome. Come on Leave, persuade me. I'm open to the concept, just tell me what the real benefits are and how we get them.


I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.


I think it was all about "taking back control" and then popping over to Europe and grovelling a trade deal out of them that reflected our power, status and wealth in the world (ie a pretty poor trade deal from our perspective).


The trade deal mutterings are a figleaf hiding a red herring. If you cared about exports the last thing you would do is campaign to leave the EU, in fact you would do a Maggie and aggressively try and deepen and expand the SM.

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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Rolf F » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:59 pm

Surrey Commuter wrote:The trade deal mutterings are a figleaf hiding a red herring. If you cared about exports the last thing you would do is campaign to leave the EU, in fact you would do a Maggie and aggressively try and deepen and expand the SM.


You know we shouldn't worry. Apparently we made 1.67m cars in 2017 and exported 1.34 million of them. So we bought 0.33m of them ourselves.

New car registrations were 2.54m in 2017. However, since Brexiters are patriotic and will all buy British without exception, they alone should be responsible for ensuring that at least 52% of the cars sold in the UK are British made in future (as the unpatriotic remainers will all be buying Euro crap).

So, we should be selling at least 1.27m British made cars to Brexiteers next year so we'd only need 0.7m confused Remainers to accidentally buy British when they thought they were buying Euro and we'd be no worse off!

It's looking very positive indeed!
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Longshot » Mon Sep 16, 2019 13:20 pm

Surrey Commuter wrote:
I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.


Actually, any benefits... economic or otherwise.

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Veronese68
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Veronese68 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 13:24 pm

Rolf F wrote:However, since Brexiters are patriotic and will all buy British without exception...

Whilst I know it's a tongue in cheek comment, I must add you are massively underestimating the levels of hypocrisy. Just look at Coopster and his Canyon. Not only did he buy a German bike, he bought direct so not even a plucky British shopkeeper got to see any of his cash. :roll:
NitrousOxide wrote:Having only just seen this thread and having not looked at other replies, I'll be surprised if I'm the only one who regrets voting leave in 2016, not taking the time to look up the claims by both sides prior to voting and being suckered in by bits like that ****** lying bus.

You're a rare beast admitting you've changed your mind, and I thank you for saying so. I know of a couple of others that have said similar, the majority seem to be getting more extreme unfortunately.

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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Surrey Commuter » Mon Sep 16, 2019 13:36 pm

Longshot wrote:
Surrey Commuter wrote:
I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.


Actually, any benefits... economic or otherwise.


That only leaves sovereignity

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Rolf F
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Rolf F » Mon Sep 16, 2019 14:00 pm

Veronese68 wrote:
Rolf F wrote:However, since Brexiters are patriotic and will all buy British without exception...

Whilst I know it's a tongue in cheek comment, I must add you are massively underestimating the levels of hypocrisy. Just look at Coopster and his Canyon. Not only did he buy a German bike, he bought direct so not even a plucky British shopkeeper got to see any of his cash. :roll:


I have thought of that precise example myself. Despite being an ardent remainer, I have tried where possible to buy British and failing that European. Hard often to succeed these days but you have to do your flawed best (bit like the EU). I didn't buy a Canyon - I bought a Ribble (and a Look which at least wasn't made in the Far East). My previous washing machine was UK made as is my vacuum cleaner. I don't always succeed but I do try. I suspect our beloved Coopster didn't give it a moments thought. Thinking about consequences, benefits to Blighty etc being not what you'd expect most brexiters to do cause Patriotism is all about waving flags and errrr, in practical terms I still have no idea!

Actually, what is it about? Not immigration, not the economy, not being unable to make our own rules (cos we all know that in the EU we make the rules and outside of it we follow them). What is the point of this? Really......
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Rolf F
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby Rolf F » Mon Sep 16, 2019 14:01 pm

Surrey Commuter wrote:
Longshot wrote:
Surrey Commuter wrote:
I am guessing when you mean economic benefits of leaving. If so then Farage, Gove and co have never claimed any.


Actually, any benefits... economic or otherwise.


That only leaves sovereignity


What? That person that our Brexiter in chief lied to last week?
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby elbowloh » Mon Sep 16, 2019 14:48 pm

What does sovereignty even mean anymore?

Are our lying politicians better or worse than the ones in Brussels or does it not matter, because at least they're ours?

Within the EU, we always had a say in the legislation it passed, a pretty major one at that, and we had a veto also. I've still not been able to get any real examples of where EU law has been really bad for us, not ones that haven't been disproved anyway. Most EU laws have been put in place to raise standards, particularly when it comes to human / employee rights.
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Re: If this was a 2nd referendum, which way would you vote?

Postby PBlakeney » Mon Sep 16, 2019 18:37 pm

elbowloh wrote:...Most EU laws have been put in place to raise standards, particularly when it comes to human / employee rights.

Careful now. You nearly gave away the real reason behind all this.
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