rjsterry wrote: john80 wrote: Rolf F wrote: john80 wrote: Matthewfalle wrote: SurferCyclist wrote: Matthewfalle wrote:
Pross wrote: whoever wins is unlikely to survive long and it will hopefully kill their career permanently.
A last hoorah for a Henry?
Saying Tories are facists is like saying Labour supporters are Marxist. Some are, not all.
nope. they all are. not one iota of care for the greater good in any of their bodies
I have voted Tory since those Labour twats chose to introduce tuition fees and saddle intelligent engineers such as myself with debt. I was down the local sailing club teaching kids how to sail at the weekend. Didn't even get paid. I have just given you one example of a historically Tory voter doing something for the greater good of society and a whole party doing something that was definitely bad for society. But then this is the internet where the use of the word "all" is routinely used incorrectly.
So the consequence of your anger regarding the act of increasing the debt on a broadly/commonly privileged sector of society is to shift from left wing to right wing?
This summarises why politics is so difficult now. It's Turkeys voting for Christmas. Once you identify yourself as someone who will vote against your own best interests (feel free to analogise to Brexit) you are sending a message to those in power that there is absolutely no point in them considering your needs; even if they do give you what you want you'll still vote against them. There should be a special category in the Darwin awards for this.
Yeah I am sure that first generation graduate from a modest background considers the act of getting educated and working hard makes him from a privileged sector of society. Universal debt regardless of background really assisted those not from families where the debt could just be paid off by the parents and was irrelevant.
We have had 50 years of removing industry from the economy as if increasing productivity and providing well paid jobs was somehow a bad idea. It was a much better idea to buy in all these services for some bizarre reasoning.
If as an engineering graduate you can make a decent living then that does put you at an advantage. If for whatever reason that degree doesn't lead to a higher income then you don't have to repay the debt. Point is, free university places were a massive give away to a majority of students, who were from that privileged sector of society where it was just expected.
Exactly. Ultimately, it was the decision to massively increase the number of University students that made loans essential (though I suspect they would have replaced the grant system anyway). There's a good chance that your first generation graduate from a modest background wouldn't have had the chance to get a degree at all thirty years ago. Whether the current situation is a genuine improvement or not on how things used to be depends on how many graduates are getting graduate level jobs but a loan that you only pay off if you get a graduate level wage doesn't seem that bad a solution. Even Martin Lewis seems to think that!
But yes, I'd say anyone with an engineering degree, no matter how indebted as a result of it, is privileged. Go to a shopping centre in a crap part of town and see how many engineering graduates you'll find hanging around outside McDonalds. They are privileged whether they think so or not.
Mind you, I am still glad I didn't have to incur those debts during my degree. I might have had to choose a more lucrative subject (such as engineering!).
Faster than a tent.......