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Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 19:59 pm
by Wayne Plunger
Should we not be pointing the finger at Dave as he "started the ball rolling" to further his own ends.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 21:21 pm
by Slowmart
The Tories are kicking the can down the road, who ever picks up the leadership will further polarise divisions within the Tory party and there isn’t a viable political alternative in the Labour Party as a counter point to apply the leverage of common sense to pick a party leader with broad appeal.

Looks like the future economic health of the UK will be shaped by a narrow ideology of a few thousand Tory members who get to elect our next PM.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 21:21 pm
by Pross
The list of confirmed and likely candidates for leader really does show how bad things are. Ultimately though it might be good thing as whoever wins is unlikely to survive long and it will hopefully kill their career permanently. The few reasonably sane senior Tories look to be staying well away.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 05:58 am
by Matthewfalle
Pross wrote: whoever wins is unlikely to survive long and it will hopefully kill their career permanently.


A last hoorah for a Henry?

#fascistTories

Re: May has gone - ding dong the witch is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:51 pm
by sam anon
Pross wrote:You have to be either mad or a narcissist (or both) to want to take on the leadership in the current situation so there won't be a shortage of applicants.


:lol:

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 14:01 pm
by Robert88
Wayne Plunger wrote:Should we not be pointing the finger at Dave as he "started the ball rolling" to further his own ends.


Wayne Plunger wrote:Should we not be pointing the finger at Dave as he "started the ball rolling" to further his own ends.


What not Dave 'chaos with Ed Milliband' Cameron?

Britain faces a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with me, or chaos with Ed Miliband: https://www.facebook.com/DavidCameronOf ... 2725449379


How can that be?

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 15:32 pm
by Matthewfalle

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 17:39 pm
by morstar
Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 19:37 pm
by Robert88
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.


you do realise that politics is a business in the USA. Trump realised exactly what you describe and he's certainly filling it.

He'll be over here in a week or so we need to make sure he doesn't leave one of his sprogs behind to fill our gap.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 20:06 pm
by morstar
Robert88 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.


you do realise that politics is a business in the USA. Trump realised exactly what you describe and he's certainly filling it.

He'll be over here in a week or so we need to make sure he doesn't leave one of his sprogs behind to fill our gap.

Fair point. Much as he is an absolute hateful human being, he does understand supply and demand.
Our lot don't seem to understand it as they're all chasing radical ideologies. Despite the polarising effect of brexit, I think most Brits are actually centrist.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 21:17 pm
by Stevo 666
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 05:24 am
by morstar
Stevo 666 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Market forces in 2019 are heavily driven by brands and the Lib dems were a toxic brand after the coalition.
So far they had been unable to reverse that perception. My supposition is that by both tory and labour turning themselves into toxic brands, they are doing the work of realigning the lib dem brand for the lib dems.
I guess we'll have a more informed view later today.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 08:53 am
by briantrumpet
Stevo 666 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Still one of the utter mysteries for me is how they've managed to stay invisible during a period when they were the only 'mainstream' party advocating a point of view on the EU shared by a large chunk of the electorate, and the other two parties exhibiting utter incompetence.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 09:06 am
by rjsterry
briantrumpet wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Still one of the utter mysteries for me is how they've managed to stay invisible during a period when they were the only 'mainstream' party advocating a point of view on the EU shared by a large chunk of the electorate, and the other two parties exhibiting utter incompetence.


I'm sure Vince is a decent chap, but he was less visible than Farron and seemed to be waiting for something. The party seemed to need the local elections to remind itself what it was there for.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 09:37 am
by briantrumpet
rjsterry wrote:
briantrumpet wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Still one of the utter mysteries for me is how they've managed to stay invisible during a period when they were the only 'mainstream' party advocating a point of view on the EU shared by a large chunk of the electorate, and the other two parties exhibiting utter incompetence.


I'm sure Vince is a decent chap, but he was less visible than Farron and seemed to be waiting for something. The party seemed to need the local elections to remind itself what it was there for.

You'd get a lot of people appearing to have worrying signs of dementia if you asked them, following the "What day of the week is it today?" question, with "Who's the leader of the Liberal Democrats?". I think he's been waiting to retire, if the reports in Private Eye are accurate. He's made Douglas Hurd look dynamic.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 09:45 am
by Stevo 666
briantrumpet wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Still one of the utter mysteries for me is how they've managed to stay invisible during a period when they were the only 'mainstream' party advocating a point of view on the EU shared by a large chunk of the electorate, and the other two parties exhibiting utter incompetence.

Maybe it's down to utter incompetence?

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 09:46 am
by Stevo 666
morstar wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Market forces in 2019 are heavily driven by brands and the Lib dems were a toxic brand after the coalition.
So far they had been unable to reverse that perception. My supposition is that by both tory and labour turning themselves into toxic brands, they are doing the work of realigning the lib dem brand for the lib dems.
I guess we'll have a more informed view later today.

3 toxic brands then (ignoring all the minor toxic brands like UKIP, SNP etc) - I suppose it's a level playing field of sorts.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 09:51 am
by Robert88
briantrumpet wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
briantrumpet wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
morstar wrote:Is this whole Brexit thing a conspiracy to bring the lib Dems back into mainstream politics?

Lib Dems were doomed to years of irrelevance in 2015 beyond the obvious limitations of being a 3rd party in a 2 party system.

Labour have spent the last few years abandoning moderate centre left policies and now the Tories are lurching further and further to the right leaving a gaping chasm in both the the centre left and centre right

If politics were business there is a whole gap in the market begging to be filled. Labour and Tory may find themselves the equivalent of a high street record shop if they're not careful. Largely a thing of the past with a few remnants catering to a niche market.

Don't you think the Lib Dems would have filled the gap by now if they were capable of doing so?

Still one of the utter mysteries for me is how they've managed to stay invisible during a period when they were the only 'mainstream' party advocating a point of view on the EU shared by a large chunk of the electorate, and the other two parties exhibiting utter incompetence.


I'm sure Vince is a decent chap, but he was less visible than Farron and seemed to be waiting for something. The party seemed to need the local elections to remind itself what it was there for.

You'd get a lot of people appearing to have worrying signs of dementia if you asked them, following the "What day of the week is it today?" question, with "Who's the leader of the Liberal Democrats?". I think he's been waiting to retire, if the reports in Private Eye are accurate. He's made Douglas Hurd look dynamic.


Indeed, Cable did state that he'd be gone by June and nowit's by August. Although to be fair the UK said it'd leave the EU by April, then May, then July and now it is November.

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:38 am
by sungod
cable should've gone a long time ago, 2017-18 was their chance to rebuild some credibility for whatever they stand for, and more importantly to challenge some of the lies and idiocy that have become the norm

uk politics seems to be following the trend seen in some other countries where left/right but essentially centrist parties adopt ever more extreme positions to try and avoid losing voters to more extreme populist/fascist parties

easily recognisable, they all follow the pattern: foreigners/muslims/jews/christians/hindus/buddists/eu/southerners/northerners/elites/judges/whatever are the enemy of the people, the country is under attack, the media is biased, just elect the glorious leader and they'll exclude/deport/tax/fine/ban/jail/kill the enemies, all will be wonderful, all hail the leader

no constructive policies, just stoke the self-righteous anger against the 'other', large 'donations' welcome, they will of course be rewarded

institutions are debased, people suffer, but the glorious leader always has someone to blame for this, erdogan, modi, trump, orban, etc., have all followed the same script

inertia/laziness/idiocy means the people who for years/decades simply voted tory/labour every time carry on doing so anyway, the true nutters jump ship to the more extreme parties anyway

the centre is hollowed out, leaving increasingly polarised politics

Re: May has gone - ding dong the utter, utter, total failure of a prime minister is gone

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:44 am
by Rick Chasey
Difficult to have your top talent in the public eye when they don’t have a seat in Parliament.

Doesn’t stop Farage but as we know the he’s a ratings monster and the BBC love him.