Join the Labour Party and save your country!

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Rick Chasey » Mon Sep 02, 2019 05:43 am

But it’s alrite lads. Only Corbyn is he the kind of guy who will deselect anyone who doesn’t support his divisive policies in parliament.

Oh wait, it’s actually no.10 right now. :roll:

At least it’s only Corbyn’s office who are leaking that he won’t stand down if he loses a vote of no confidence when he’s prime minister. Oh no, wait, that wasn’t Corbyn was it? No it’s no.10 right now.

At least legislature is something only Corby ignores...nah it’s not is it, as that’s something the current cabinet won’t rule out.

I guess the Torres can be glad that now they’ve opened the can of worms that usual norms are to be put aside, that they can fairly say “he’d bypass all parliamentary norms” because they have already.

When the shoe is on the other foot....

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Ballysmate » Mon Sep 02, 2019 06:26 am

rjsterry wrote:
Ballysmate wrote:Or more accurately, according to the clip on BBC news, refusing to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published.
But that wouldn't be a sensational headline would it?

Btw I would fully expect any government of whatever stripe to comply with legislation. It would be pointless for them to do otherwise as the courts would over rule them by saying their actions were unlawful.

The last government had to be taken to court three times for repeatedly breaching it's own legislation on air pollution, and I'm sure that's not the only example. Sometimes it would appear to take more than it simply being unlawful.


Was it not the case that the court found that the government's policy to be inadequate rather than it acting wilfully in defiance of a specific Act?

Even if you don't accept that you are comparing apples and oranges, you seem to be agreeing with the second part of my post that the courts would force compliance.

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Stevo 666 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 06:33 am

Ballysmate wrote:Or more accurately, according to the clip on BBC news, refusing to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published.
But that wouldn't be a sensational headline would it?

Btw I would fully expect any government of whatever stripe to comply with legislation. It would be pointless for them to do otherwise as the courts would over rule them by saying their actions were unlawful.

Cake Stop meets 'Minority Report'...
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Rick Chasey
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Rick Chasey » Mon Sep 02, 2019 07:02 am

Stevo 666 wrote:
Ballysmate wrote:Or more accurately, according to the clip on BBC news, refusing to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published.
But that wouldn't be a sensational headline would it?

Btw I would fully expect any government of whatever stripe to comply with legislation. It would be pointless for them to do otherwise as the courts would over rule them by saying their actions were unlawful.

Cake Stop meets 'Minority Report'...


I mean, it's not like some of the substance of it had already been leaked to the BBC which was why they asked the question, oh no.

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Ballysmate » Mon Sep 02, 2019 07:07 am

Rick Chasey wrote:But it’s alrite lads. Only Corbyn is he the kind of guy who will deselect anyone who doesn’t support his divisive policies in parliament.

Oh wait, it’s actually no.10 right now. :roll:

At least it’s only Corbyn’s office who are leaking that he won’t stand down if he loses a vote of no confidence when he’s prime minister. Oh no, wait, that wasn’t Corbyn was it? No it’s no.10 right now.

At least legislature is something only Corby ignores...nah it’s not is it, as that’s something the current cabinet won’t rule out.

I guess the Torres can be glad that now they’ve opened the can of worms that usual norms are to be put aside, that they can fairly say “he’d bypass all parliamentary norms” because they have already.

When the shoe is on the other foot....


Deselecting someone is the prerogative of any party leadership, governed by the rules the party set. It is up to the leadership if they want to go down that route, be it BJ, Corby, Swinson or whoever. They must decide if any resulting disunity is politically acceptable.

As regarding the refusal to stand down, isn't that in keeping with the Fixed Parliament Act, whereby a PM who loses a confidence vote, calls an election at a time of their choosing?

The government hasn't ignored any legislation, Gove only refused to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published yet.

They haven'y bypassed Parliamentary norms, on the contrary, they have abided by them. I think I read that Parliament has been prorogued over 90 times in the last 100 years. BJ has said that if MPs won't back him, they should call a vote of no confidence. Entirely in keeping with Parliamentary norms eh?

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Rick Chasey » Mon Sep 02, 2019 07:16 am

Ballysmate wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:But it’s alrite lads. Only Corbyn is he the kind of guy who will deselect anyone who doesn’t support his divisive policies in parliament.

Oh wait, it’s actually no.10 right now. :roll:

At least it’s only Corbyn’s office who are leaking that he won’t stand down if he loses a vote of no confidence when he’s prime minister. Oh no, wait, that wasn’t Corbyn was it? No it’s no.10 right now.

At least legislature is something only Corby ignores...nah it’s not is it, as that’s something the current cabinet won’t rule out.

I guess the Torres can be glad that now they’ve opened the can of worms that usual norms are to be put aside, that they can fairly say “he’d bypass all parliamentary norms” because they have already.

When the shoe is on the other foot....


Deselecting someone is the prerogative of any party leadership, governed by the rules the party set. It is up to the leadership if they want to go down that route, be it BJ, Corby, Swinson or whoever. They must decide if any resulting disunity is politically acceptable.

As regarding the refusal to stand down, isn't that in keeping with the Fixed Parliament Act, whereby a PM who loses a confidence vote, calls an election at a time of their choosing?

The government hasn't ignored any legislation, Gove only refused to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published yet.

They haven'y bypassed Parliamentary norms, on the contrary, they have abided by them. I think I read that Parliament has been prorogued over 90 times in the last 100 years. BJ has said that if MPs won't back him, they should call a vote of no confidence. Entirely in keeping with Parliamentary norms eh?


Keep telling yourself that.

None of it is against the rules (though the main strategist in #10 has been found to be in contempt of parliament, but that carries no punishment), but we both know the way UK politics works is more a vibe than a bunch of rulez, and we both know that what is being done is fairly unusual (proroguing parliament for *five weeks* is not usual and you know it as much as I do*) and does not demonstrate an interest in furthering debate and parliamentary scrutiny as each decision is an attempt to reduce just that.

If that suits you then that's fine, but I would suggest that reducing parliamentary scrutiny only allows for more extremist leadership, and even if you're OK with the means this time because the ends suit, it may not be so next time.




*https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8589
The typical recent duration of a UK Parliament’s prorogation has been very short. Since the 1980s prorogation has rarely lasted longer than two weeks (and, between sessions during a Parliament, has typically lasted less than a week). It has always led either to the dissolution of the current Parliament (prior to a General Election) or the start of a new Parliamentary session.

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Tangled Metal » Mon Sep 02, 2019 07:42 am

Isn't that the issue tories should be concerned about? What Boris (I mean Cummins) does now can be done by any pm in the future. If that pm happens to be politically left of Corbyn then this action by Boris will bite them on the derriere in the future.

All for Brexit. I hope that works out well because the effects of this path of actions could have serious consequences on the near future.

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Ballysmate » Mon Sep 02, 2019 08:07 am

Tangled Metal wrote:Isn't that the issue tories should be concerned about? What Boris (I mean Cummins) does now can be done by any pm in the future. If that pm happens to be politically left of Corbyn then this action by Boris will bite them on the derriere in the future.

All for Brexit. I hope that works out well because the effects of this path of actions could have serious consequences on the near future.


If whatever the government does is within the rules, there would be nothing to stop any future governments doing it anyway, whether BJ does it or not.

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby rjsterry » Mon Sep 02, 2019 08:14 am

Ballysmate wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Isn't that the issue tories should be concerned about? What Boris (I mean Cummins) does now can be done by any pm in the future. If that pm happens to be politically left of Corbyn then this action by Boris will bite them on the derriere in the future.

All for Brexit. I hope that works out well because the effects of this path of actions could have serious consequences on the near future.


If whatever the government does is within the rules, there would be nothing to stop any future governments doing it anyway, whether BJ does it or not.


There aren't any codified rules, just the accumulated precedence of what governments have done before. If this course of action succeeds it becomes the new rules.
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby KingstonGraham » Mon Sep 02, 2019 09:27 am

Stevo 666 wrote:
Ballysmate wrote:Or more accurately, according to the clip on BBC news, refusing to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published.
But that wouldn't be a sensational headline would it?

Btw I would fully expect any government of whatever stripe to comply with legislation. It would be pointless for them to do otherwise as the courts would over rule them by saying their actions were unlawful.

Cake Stop meets 'Minority Report'...


Not really - a reasonable answer would be "Of course we will abide by the law of the land, but at the moment there is no bill for us to respond to. The current law is that we are leaving on the 31st October and blah blah etc." Gove missed out the first bit deliberately.
and then the next thing you know

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Stevo 666 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:01 am

KingstonGraham wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
Ballysmate wrote:Or more accurately, according to the clip on BBC news, refusing to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published.
But that wouldn't be a sensational headline would it?

Btw I would fully expect any government of whatever stripe to comply with legislation. It would be pointless for them to do otherwise as the courts would over rule them by saying their actions were unlawful.

Cake Stop meets 'Minority Report'...


Not really - a reasonable answer would be "Of course we will abide by the law of the land, but at the moment there is no bill for us to respond to. The current law is that we are leaving on the 31st October and blah blah etc." Gove missed out the first bit deliberately.

It is exactly that - as they have not failed to comply with anything yet. It is a potential future event, but in your world I guess they are already guilty?
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby KingstonGraham » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:03 am

Stevo 666 wrote:
KingstonGraham wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
Ballysmate wrote:Or more accurately, according to the clip on BBC news, refusing to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published.
But that wouldn't be a sensational headline would it?

Btw I would fully expect any government of whatever stripe to comply with legislation. It would be pointless for them to do otherwise as the courts would over rule them by saying their actions were unlawful.

Cake Stop meets 'Minority Report'...


Not really - a reasonable answer would be "Of course we will abide by the law of the land, but at the moment there is no bill for us to respond to. The current law is that we are leaving on the 31st October and blah blah etc." Gove missed out the first bit deliberately.

It is exactly that - as they have not failed to comply with anything yet. It is a potential future event, but in your world I guess they are already guilty?


No, just shifty.
and then the next thing you know

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Stevo 666 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:58 am

KingstonGraham wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
KingstonGraham wrote:
Stevo 666 wrote:
Ballysmate wrote:Or more accurately, according to the clip on BBC news, refusing to be drawn on a Bill that hasn't even been published.
But that wouldn't be a sensational headline would it?

Btw I would fully expect any government of whatever stripe to comply with legislation. It would be pointless for them to do otherwise as the courts would over rule them by saying their actions were unlawful.

Cake Stop meets 'Minority Report'...


Not really - a reasonable answer would be "Of course we will abide by the law of the land, but at the moment there is no bill for us to respond to. The current law is that we are leaving on the 31st October and blah blah etc." Gove missed out the first bit deliberately.

It is exactly that - as they have not failed to comply with anything yet. It is a potential future event, but in your world I guess they are already guilty?


No, just shifty.

There is a subtle difference...
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Pross » Mon Sep 02, 2019 21:05 pm

Hearing Corbyn speaking today about the possibility of an election really is depressing. He's said and done nothing of note on Brexit or any other policy since the last GE and suddenly he's back in man of the people campaign mode. How did we end up with this choice as our nation's leader?

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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Mr Goo » Mon Sep 02, 2019 22:14 pm

Pross wrote:Hearing Corbyn speaking today about the possibility of an election really is depressing. He's said and done nothing of note on Brexit or any other policy since the last GE and suddenly he's back in man of the people campaign mode. How did we end up with this choice as our nation's leader?


Thankfully he isn't the PM. If by some cataclysmic event he does end up in No10, I'm out of here with every brass Razoo I possess.
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Rolf F » Tue Sep 03, 2019 07:34 am

Pross wrote:Hearing Corbyn speaking today about the possibility of an election really is depressing. He's said and done nothing of note on Brexit or any other policy since the last GE and suddenly he's back in man of the people campaign mode. How did we end up with this choice as our nation's leader?


"Grandad Jeremy - what did you do during Brexit". "Errrrrrrrr, I gave a couple of speeches and nearly expressed an opinion".

I don't know why people are so scared of him as a PM. He wouldn't actually do anything. We'd have five years of dithering and he'd be gone.
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Ballysmate
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Ballysmate » Tue Sep 03, 2019 08:17 am

Rolf F wrote:
Pross wrote:Hearing Corbyn speaking today about the possibility of an election really is depressing. He's said and done nothing of note on Brexit or any other policy since the last GE and suddenly he's back in man of the people campaign mode. How did we end up with this choice as our nation's leader?


"Grandad Jeremy - what did you do during Brexit". "Errrrrrrrr, I gave a couple of speeches and nearly expressed an opinion".

I don't know why people are so scared of him as a PM. He wouldn't actually do anything. We'd have five years of dithering and he'd be gone.


This tw@t at No11 would be more scary.


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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Surrey Commuter » Tue Sep 03, 2019 09:28 am

Ballysmate wrote:
Rolf F wrote:
Pross wrote:Hearing Corbyn speaking today about the possibility of an election really is depressing. He's said and done nothing of note on Brexit or any other policy since the last GE and suddenly he's back in man of the people campaign mode. How did we end up with this choice as our nation's leader?


"Grandad Jeremy - what did you do during Brexit". "Errrrrrrrr, I gave a couple of speeches and nearly expressed an opinion".

I don't know why people are so scared of him as a PM. He wouldn't actually do anything. We'd have five years of dithering and he'd be gone.


This tw@t at No11 would be more scary.


Image


one of the good things about Boris and his ever growing list of spending pledges is that J.C. McDonnell seems slightly less scary

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Mr Goo
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby Mr Goo » Tue Sep 03, 2019 09:51 am

Rolf F wrote:
Pross wrote:Hearing Corbyn speaking today about the possibility of an election really is depressing. He's said and done nothing of note on Brexit or any other policy since the last GE and suddenly he's back in man of the people campaign mode. How did we end up with this choice as our nation's leader?


"Grandad Jeremy - what did you do during Brexit". "Errrrrrrrr, I gave a couple of speeches and nearly expressed an opinion".

I don't know why people are so scared of him as a PM. He wouldn't actually do anything. We'd have five years of dithering and he'd be gone.


Diane Abbott as Home Secretary!!!! Just as frightening as JMac in No11.
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Re: Join the Labour Party and save your country!

Postby bradsbeard » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:10 am

Mr Goo wrote: Diane Abbott as Home Secretary!!!! Just as frightening as JMac in No11.



These are the reasons I can no longer vote Labour. 30 years been a Labour supporter and it does hurt I can no longer have faith in the party.


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