the nhs

The place for more serious off topic questions, light hearted banter and friendly chat.
User avatar
-spider-
Posts: 2538
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 17:40 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby -spider- » Fri May 10, 2013 11:36 am

Stick8267 wrote:The NHS is dying.


Coming from a doctor this one statement makes me so sad.

I value what the NHS has given me in the past and I hope that it continues to be able to provide that to others.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-Spider-

User avatar
MountainMonster
Posts: 7268
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 18:04 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby MountainMonster » Fri May 10, 2013 11:40 am

VTech wrote:
MountainMonster wrote:Vtech,

part of the causes of the problems we are having now are the reluctance to do things because of possible failure, which although can be a genuine worry, often complicates things more than necessary, and leads to things staying the same. It would have taken 6 months to get our project launched either in Europe, or the US, but the mindset here of "if it could possibly have a problem it is not worth pursuing" is very detrimental to getting things done. This is also why there are so many failed other programmes across the country because people chose to focus all their effort on stopping something rather than looking for solutions to the problem, or learning how to make it work through stressing the good points.

This mindset unfortunately only exists in the UK. It is depressing when I, as a 23 year old man, must tell stakeholders of large corporations to simply get on with things and get the ball rolling and the problems will fix themselves in time. These are highly respected members of their business communities, and these things would not need to be said elsewhere.



Im with you mate. :!:

I get the job done, im paid well to do that and get passion from making the impossible possible. I thrive on making things work.
I have worked since I was 11, part time, as a kid washing cars, cleaning gardens, golf caddying and all sorts, I worked unpaid weekends because I wanted to learn. Its done me well, maybe some luck but work pays in the end.

I never listen to the above about benefit fraud stats because its wrong IN MY OPINION because it is SPIN

I explained very well above.

If you dont work you are entitled to benefits, this is NOT CURRENTLY CLASSED AS FRAUD but if you really are able to work then of course THIS IS FRAUD so removing the spin that people put on it, the reality is that we do have huge fraud, unless of course we really do have millions out of work and no jobs for them. :?:


One of the reasons the Benefits case facts can be very misleading is because it takes the spin of the organisation who is commissioning the study. In an organisation which is trying to show there are high number of benefit fraud cases the work commissioned will reflect, same as the ones saying benefit fraud is not a prominent item to discuss will show lower figures. We need a fully neutral 3rd party (not from UK) to come in and assess everything.

I am with Vtech on the fraud issue though. I know a few people who choose not to work because they know they will simply get money every month and they can sit at home watching telly. Under most reports this is not counted as fraud, even though at the roots it is. This person is making no effort to find jobs, no effort to bring in money (drug dealing does not count) and they are not paying taxes. This to me is fraud as they are able bodied and could work, but the choose not to. This does not fall in any categories of current reports, but it should, as this will show the true figures of fraud in the UK. I can think of at least 20 cases from old teenage buddies who I have since cut off just off the top of my head where this has happened, and i'm sure if I have a hunt around I can find more. Why are these people not included in the figures? It is simply because the definition of benefit fraud does not include this, but it should.

Also remember, these cases are just the ones from my old circle of friends, who I did not have very many of. Look at it on a Cambridge scale and the numbers multiply, then factor in national figures and the numbers will be astonishing.

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 12:31 pm

clearly not mountain monster (re you mum). i dispute that there are millions of fat people due to medical conditions other than greed and laziness and todays consumption based society. although muy post was tongue in cheek, such a scheme would obviously have medical exexmptions, which would be fairly easy and simple to police as its very easy to get medical exemption certs/docs be it for sport or work from gp's or indeed longterm prescriptions would be evidence enough.

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 12:39 pm

Rigged wrote:
VTech wrote:I honestly believe that the papers hold a lot of responsibility for the cynicism that so many people feel towards the state of Britain. They've propagated the false belief for so long that there's millions of people out there who have never worked, never want to, and will never have to. That benefit fraud is rife. That immigration and/or the EU is the cause of all these problems. All of these claims are largely unsubstantiated by any sort of research. Where research is used it's partially-quoted and taken out of context to deliver an entirely different conclusion to that of the research itself.


as much as like your avatar i disagree. a small minority gets there opinion/news from the print media nowadays (especially the gruniad). newspapers and their websites influence is increasingly limited, especially amongst the computer literate ages. id suggest the bbc and their kin are the prime source these days. the points you make are also dubios, look at the welfare bill. uncontrolled/unlimited immigration is clearly a problem for a small overcrowded island with finite resources. population growth always increases pressure on all other areas, infrastructure, education, welfare etc. if that population growth is mostly down to migration, rather than an increase in birth rate amongst the 'indigenous' population, clearly migration is the fundamntal issue in stressing the system.

ooermissus
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:31 am

Re: the nhs

Postby ooermissus » Fri May 10, 2013 12:41 pm

the playing mantis wrote:such a scheme would obviously have medical exexmptions, which would be fairly easy and simple to police.


That should cut it down to 10 million or so. Wonder if there are any appropriate historical analogies for herding that many people into camps?

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 12:45 pm

godwin time? or smuts territory?

User avatar
VTech
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 19:31 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby VTech » Fri May 10, 2013 12:46 pm

ooermissus wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:such a scheme would obviously have medical exexmptions, which would be fairly easy and simple to police.


That should cut it down to 10 million or so. Wonder if there are any appropriate historical analogies for herding that many people into camps?


It's obvious that me and you don't seem to get along but I'm yet to see you ever make an opinion of how we would ever fix issues, your posts always reflect negativity which I find odd as you are obviously a clever fellow.
I'm maybe not so clever as you so I used hard work and a grit of determination to make sure I can support me, my mother, my wife and my offspring without being a burden on society. I'm happy with that.
Living MY dream.

User avatar
Rigged
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 17:42 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby Rigged » Fri May 10, 2013 12:47 pm

the playing mantis wrote:
Rigged wrote:
VTech wrote:I honestly believe that the papers hold a lot of responsibility for the cynicism that so many people feel towards the state of Britain. They've propagated the false belief for so long that there's millions of people out there who have never worked, never want to, and will never have to. That benefit fraud is rife. That immigration and/or the EU is the cause of all these problems. All of these claims are largely unsubstantiated by any sort of research. Where research is used it's partially-quoted and taken out of context to deliver an entirely different conclusion to that of the research itself.


as much as like your avatar i disagree. a small minority gets there opinion/news from the print media nowadays (especially the gruniad). newspapers and their websites influence is increasingly limited, especially amongst the computer literate ages. id suggest the bbc and their kin are the prime source these days. the points you make are also dubios, look at the welfare bill. uncontrolled/unlimited immigration is clearly a problem for a small overcrowded island with finite resources. population growth always increases pressure on all other areas, infrastructure, education, welfare etc. if that population growth is mostly down to migration, rather than an increase in birth rate amongst the 'indigenous' population, clearly migration is the fundamntal issue in stressing the system.


I've seen you previous posts in relation to the EU/immigration in (I think) the local election results thread. Suffice to say that we will never agree on this particular topic :)

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 12:50 pm

VTech wrote:
ooermissus wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:such a scheme would obviously have medical exexmptions, which would be fairly easy and simple to police.


That should cut it down to 10 million or so. Wonder if there are any appropriate historical analogies for herding that many people into camps?


It's obvious that me and you don't seem to get along but I'm yet to see you ever make an opinion of how we would ever fix issues, your posts always reflect negativity which I find odd as you are obviously a clever fellow.
I'm maybe not so clever as you so I used hard work and a grit of determination to make sure I can support me, my mother, my wife and my offspring without being a burden on society. I'm happy with that.


are u talking to me?!?

User avatar
-spider-
Posts: 2538
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 17:40 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby -spider- » Fri May 10, 2013 12:52 pm

the playing mantis wrote: uncontrolled/unlimited immigration is clearly a problem for a small overcrowded island with finite resources.


It isn't uncontrolled or unlimited. (see - http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/ )

If you would take out the emotion and do away with the absurd statements of 'facts' the valid points that you make might gain some more acceptance.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-Spider-

User avatar
VTech
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 19:31 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby VTech » Fri May 10, 2013 12:53 pm

the playing mantis wrote:
VTech wrote:
ooermissus wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:such a scheme would obviously have medical exexmptions, which would be fairly easy and simple to police.


That should cut it down to 10 million or so. Wonder if there are any appropriate historical analogies for herding that many people into camps?


It's obvious that me and you don't seem to get along but I'm yet to see you ever make an opinion of how we would ever fix issues, your posts always reflect negativity which I find odd as you are obviously a clever fellow.
I'm maybe not so clever as you so I used hard work and a grit of determination to make sure I can support me, my mother, my wife and my offspring without being a burden on society. I'm happy with that.


are u talking to me?!?


No. Ooeerrmisus.
I agree with almost all of what's being said, I'm just not sure why people can't accept that there really is a problem
Living MY dream.

ooermissus
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:31 am

Re: the nhs

Postby ooermissus » Fri May 10, 2013 12:53 pm

the playing mantis wrote:godwin time? or smuts territory?


Hah hah. I am actually warming to this idea. Keeping 10 million people in camps is going to generate a lot of employment - guards etc.

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 12:54 pm

Rigged wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:
Rigged wrote:
VTech wrote:I honestly believe that the papers hold a lot of responsibility for the cynicism that so many people feel towards the state of Britain. They've propagated the false belief for so long that there's millions of people out there who have never worked, never want to, and will never have to. That benefit fraud is rife. That immigration and/or the EU is the cause of all these problems. All of these claims are largely unsubstantiated by any sort of research. Where research is used it's partially-quoted and taken out of context to deliver an entirely different conclusion to that of the research itself.


as much as like your avatar i disagree. a small minority gets there opinion/news from the print media nowadays (especially the gruniad). newspapers and their websites influence is increasingly limited, especially amongst the computer literate ages. id suggest the bbc and their kin are the prime source these days. the points you make are also dubios, look at the welfare bill. uncontrolled/unlimited immigration is clearly a problem for a small overcrowded island with finite resources. population growth always increases pressure on all other areas, infrastructure, education, welfare etc. if that population growth is mostly down to migration, rather than an increase in birth rate amongst the 'indigenous' population, clearly migration is the fundamntal issue in stressing the system.


as well maybe, also your probably one of them granita gooners which makes it worse...! but im sure we coulds find some common ground on the topic of totteringham.

but that aside, i cannot se how u can disagree with my last sentance in tis very basic point?!
I've seen you previous posts in relation to the EU/immigration in (I think) the local election results thread. Suffice to say that we will never agree on this particular topic :)

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 12:57 pm

ooermissus wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:godwin time? or smuts territory?


Hah hah. I am actually warming to this idea. Keeping 10 million people in camps is going to generate a lot of employment - guards etc.


im sure they could be tasked to making wind turbines spin somehow, have them pushing turbine blades around allday at a moderate pace, as they drip out the crisco. create power, lose weight, meaning less medical problems, lots of guards jobs, although a slight incline would probably suffice to keep them all in the camp rather than guards.

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 12:58 pm

VTech wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:
VTech wrote:
ooermissus wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:such a scheme would obviously have medical exexmptions, which would be fairly easy and simple to police.


That should cut it down to 10 million or so. Wonder if there are any appropriate historical analogies for herding that many people into camps?


It's obvious that me and you don't seem to get along but I'm yet to see you ever make an opinion of how we would ever fix issues, your posts always reflect negativity which I find odd as you are obviously a clever fellow.
I'm maybe not so clever as you so I used hard work and a grit of determination to make sure I can support me, my mother, my wife and my offspring without being a burden on society. I'm happy with that.


are u talking to me?!?


No. Ooeerrmisus.
I agree with almost all of what's being said, I'm just not sure why people can't accept that there really is a problem


deep down, i think i knew that!

ooermissus
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:31 am

Re: the nhs

Postby ooermissus » Fri May 10, 2013 13:03 pm

the playing mantis wrote:im sure they could be tasked to making wind turbines spin somehow, have them pushing turbine blades around allday at a moderate pace, as they drip out the crisco. create power, lose weight, meaning less medical problems, lots of guards jobs, although a slight incline would probably suffice to keep them all in the camp rather than guards.


A penal treadmill?

Image

User avatar
Rigged
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 17:42 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby Rigged » Fri May 10, 2013 13:10 pm

What's a "granita gooner"?

It would be a lot easier to follow your points if you added your text outside of the [quote] marks!

User avatar
the playing mantis
Posts: 1947
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby the playing mantis » Fri May 10, 2013 13:25 pm

ooo. wtf was i doing in that post. sincere apologies, not sure what i was on, plus i havent been to the pub for lunch either.

granita gooner. after the famed ex new lab restaurant in islington populated by the champagne socialist set who find it fashionable to support the a*se, much like that sketch in the fast show (or maybe harry enfield).

i cant comment on this subject anyway, i have no natural affiliation with arsenal, i should be west ham of the 'top' clubs....

User avatar
Rigged
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 17:42 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby Rigged » Fri May 10, 2013 14:20 pm

the playing mantis wrote:ooo. wtf was i doing in that post. sincere apologies, not sure what i was on, plus i havent been to the pub for lunch either.

granita gooner. after the famed ex new lab restaurant in islington populated by the champagne socialist set who find it fashionable to support the a*se, much like that sketch in the fast show (or maybe harry enfield).

i cant comment on this subject anyway, i have no natural affiliation with arsenal, i should be west ham of the 'top' clubs....


:lol: I'm pretty sure when I started supporting Arsenal I couldn't even spell politics, let alone affiliate myself with a particular party or have any knowledge of their dining habits!

I don't think "granita gooner" will ever catch on, but nice try at least ;)

tiredofwhiners
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 15:38 pm

Re: the nhs

Postby tiredofwhiners » Fri May 10, 2013 15:49 pm

ooermissus wrote:And doesn't the NHS already spend a lot of its cash through the private sector?


Not sure how much 'a lot' is but it certainly happens. How the service is provided should not matter to the patient yet there are a lot of hot under the collar folks who insist that all hospital provision should be carried out by public sector employees as if they have a monopoly on being nice, efficient and caring.

Judging by the recent press coverage, the NHS is failing on all three counts.


Return to “The Cake Stop”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Imposter, rjsterry, Shirley Basso, Wheelspinner and 28 guests