Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

What bike and bike bits should you buy?
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drlodge
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby drlodge » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 am

Choice of tyres and worms is a major factor in how you will experience tubeless. Tubeless are more faff initially to get right, more thought has to go into product selection and putting it together.
WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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thecycleclinic
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby thecycleclinic » Fri Feb 08, 2019 21:52 pm

Thicker spokes are stiffer wayne17. The only reason to use CX-ray is if building very light wheels. I do that with the OP rim but with Carbon ti hubs only. Any thing else is heavier and you might as well then say screw the weight and go all sensible with force or race rear and laser front.
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wayne17
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby wayne17 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 17:59 pm

thecycleclinic wrote:Thicker spokes are stiffer wayne17. The only reason to use CX-ray is if building very light wheels. I do that with the OP rim but with Carbon ti hubs only. Any thing else is heavier and you might as well then say screw the weight and go all sensible with force or race rear and laser front.

Makes sense will probably go with laser/ race combination. But quite fancy doing the build with cx-rays as I have never used them before, if I did build with the cx-Ray do you think the rear wheel would no be stiff enough.

thecycleclinic
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby thecycleclinic » Sat Feb 09, 2019 22:50 pm

That depends on how you ride. It won't be as stiff and that means a faster fatigue rate. On a non aero wheel the CX rays is quick and easy to build with and if using using straight pull hubs it means the wheel is trueable.
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wayne17
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby wayne17 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 07:32 am

thecycleclinic wrote:That depends on how you ride. It won't be as stiff and that means a faster fatigue rate. On a non aero wheel the CX rays is quick and easy to build with and if using using straight pull hubs it means the wheel is trueable.

Cheers thanks for you advice

TimothyW
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby TimothyW » Wed Mar 13, 2019 09:32 am

Anyone aware of a source for 42mm deep 24mm wide alloy rims?

Pro Lite have updated a couple of their wheelsets with a new wider rim designs, notably the Bracciano A42W - http://www.pro-lite.net/road-wheels/bracciano-a42w

The old bracciano A42 had a rim profile that appeared pretty much identical to the H Plus son SL42, but that rim never quite appealed with the 19.5mm width you'd need very skinny tyres to make the most of it.

Tempted to try a set, might be a good way to scratch the deep section itch, would be happier with another 4 spokes though.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 16:04 pm

Replaced a worn Pacenti SL 23 rim with a Kinlin T 26 rim... like for like swap, with very close ERD.

The process wasn't without its dramas, as the rim belonged to one of the infamous Superstar wheels (for those who remember that thread... ) and hence machine built. The nipples used have a double square section and a longer internal thread, which starts further up the nipple. To cut a long story short, Sapim nipples just about did the job without jamming in the spoke thread

thecycleclinic
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby thecycleclinic » Wed Apr 03, 2019 03:14 am

No 42mm deep alloy rims. Well there is the h plus son sl42 which is tank like.

Replaced a couple of sl23 with the xr26t myself. Easier if you originally used normal nipples.
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby thecycleclinic » Tue Apr 09, 2019 23:35 pm

First samples for testing have arrived. this is totally new hub. not a rebrand. 2:1 lacing for the rear (24H) 4 pawl freehub (independent leaf springs) and a big 36T ratchet rings. bearings are 2x 6901 front and 2x 6902 (shell) 2x 6802 freehub rear. All bearings are NTN with LLU contacting seals. they feel like a royce hub when turning the axle by hand.
flange spacing is 17.4mm DS/49mm NDS and 54/46mm PCD. front is more conventional with 68mm flange spacing and 40mm PCD.

Image
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alanyu
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby alanyu » Wed Apr 17, 2019 09:38 am

I've used three sets of handbuilt carbon wheels and shimano RS500, all from taobao.com.

RS500=UT6800, maybe several gramms lighter due to the finishing.
The cheapest handbuilt one (around 500 USD): SuperTeam 38/38 clincher rim, mac cn424 spoke and novatec 511/522 hub (20 front, 24 rear with 1:1) = 1450 grs;
The middle one (around 750 USD): inner-asymmetrical 38/45 TLR rim, pillar wing20 spoke and SIM+ S3x6E hub (20 front, 24 rear with 1:1)= 1545 grs;
The most expensive one (around 950 USD): superlight 38/50 TL rim (not need tape), sapim cx-ray spoke and Powerway R51 hub (18 front, 21 rear with 2:1)= 1271 grs.

Shimano is durable and reliable of course. It's quite which I love that. I used them @ rainy and sunny.

The performance of all my handbuilt wheels overstands RS500 (not including braking, which is a weak point of most rim-brake carbon rim), even the cheapest one: Accerelating, weight and stiffness. One fxxking problem is that I hate the noise made by freehub. 511/522 is acceptable while SIM+ and Powerway are XXXX. Thus I've adjusted the pawls and added much NB52 grease into the freehub to make them quiter.

The cheapest one worked well but didn't suprise me. Unfortunately the front wheel was broken after a serious crash and I sold the rear one to my friend at a low price. (Some small crashes before resulted in nothing).
The second one has the highest stiffness, the tension of DR side is 150kgf, but somehow it is a little heavy (especially the reinforced-designed rim). My power is not high, so the accelation at low speed is the worst of my handbuilt wheelsets, but definitely it feels best for max power sprint.
The superlight one, only around 810 grs for the 38/50 TL rim pair, the same weight of schmolke SL45/45 clincher rim pair, amazing at its cost compared to schmolke and I'm sure they are made in China. Thanks to the superlight rim, the accelation is very well, and the stiffness is the middle one. The weakness is durable and the braking is the worst. Riding downhill with this wheelset in rainy days is a nighmare (in sunny days it works well). I just hold the brake to keep at a low speed because it's impossible to stop at a short distance at that condition (black prince pads). I maintanced it myself after around 1100km on-road and 400km off-road. Apparently it's not designed for off-road.

Donie75
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby Donie75 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 09:29 am

Hi, I’m just after buying a Cannondale Synapse carbon disc and I’m looking to get a new set of wheels built. I’ve had a few sets of hand-built wheels before but these will be the first set of disc wheels. I’ve had Open Pros and H+Sons Arcetypes both on Ultegra hubs and found both great. I plan on running 28mm GP4000s. I was looking at the Strada Big Guy Disc wheels as I’m a big guy.
Can anyone recommend something similar or better that I can get built up for around the same money. I have a friend who builds wheels so I’m sorted that way.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby ugo.santalucia » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:23 am

Donie75 wrote:Hi, I’m just after buying a Cannondale Synapse carbon disc and I’m looking to get a new set of wheels built. I’ve had a few sets of hand-built wheels before but these will be the first set of disc wheels. I’ve had Open Pros and H+Sons Arcetypes both on Ultegra hubs and found both great. I plan on running 28mm GP4000s. I was looking at the Strada Big Guy Disc wheels as I’m a big guy.
Can anyone recommend something similar or better that I can get built up for around the same money. I have a friend who builds wheels so I’m sorted that way.


Stick to Archetype then... they are not disc specific, but they look OK and they are nice, solid rims... easy to fit tyres to... more modern rims are tubeless and more of a pain to fit a tyre, they need tubeless tape and all that nonsense.

Best hubs are Hope (and you can even chose the colour), get the steel freehub option and forget about freehub chewing issues.

Front can be built with Sapim D-Light spokes (28?) and rear maybe 32 built with Sapim Race if you are heavy

MrB123
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby MrB123 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 19:17 pm

Why not H Plus Son Hydra then which are disc specific?

thecycleclinic
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby thecycleclinic » Wed Apr 24, 2019 21:08 pm

tyre fitting to the hydra rim is fairly easy with tubeless tape. The novatec hubs are O.K but I would go with something different.

how heavy are you. The Kinlin XR31RTS rim in 24H built with triple butted spokes is a robust wheelset that will take load. If the radial, lateral, torsional stiffness is high then low spoke counts can work. If you 140kg then this set is not for you. If you are 110kg then you should be fine.

the novatec hubs would not be my first choice. They are O.K but bearing life is not great. The novatec hubs pictured in the wheels are the ones Whiskers sell and they have NBK bearing in them, not the best.

Ugo like the hope hubs, I like the Miche made disc brake hubs. DT Swiss 350's are eually good. steel freehub are fine but do the lockring up tight and the cassette cant move. no matter how many times people say its the rider that notched the cassette I keep on finding cassette lockrings not done up tight enough to stop notching. Those thread can take 60Nm.
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Donie75
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby Donie75 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 22:00 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I’m leaning towards the DT 350 hubs or maybe the new Shimano R8000 but I haven’t heard any reports yet. My mate has suggested Kinlin XR31’s too. The DT RR511 looks good too. I’ll check prices and see what is decent value.
Thanks

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby ugo.santalucia » Thu Apr 25, 2019 06:12 am

Donie75 wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I’m leaning towards the DT 350 hubs or maybe the new Shimano R8000


Based on what?

DT hubs are good, but they require specific and expensive tools for service... SHimano are also good, but once you've pitted the bearing races (which will happen eventually) they are good for the bin

Hope are also good, don't need specific tools. Also, every single spare part for Hope is ready available... and they are made in England. If you need advice, you can just contact the factory, try contacting Madison for a problem with your SHimano or DT and see how great their customer service is. :wink:

Donie75
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby Donie75 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 08:15 am

Based on knowledge of the brand really. I have experience with bot Shimano and DT. I've had 3 sets of Shimano hubbed handbuilts and never had an issue. I'll look into Hope. Can you recommend a suitable Hope hub set for around £150-180 that will do 32 spoke centrelock disc and thru axles.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby ugo.santalucia » Thu Apr 25, 2019 08:31 am

Donie75 wrote:Based on knowledge of the brand really. I have experience with bot Shimano and DT. I've had 3 sets of Shimano hubbed handbuilts and never had an issue. I'll look into Hope. Can you recommend a suitable Hope hub set for around £150-180 that will do 32 spoke centrelock disc and thru axles.


Hope RS4 Centrelock... normally at RRP just over 200 for the pair, but currently they are on offer on Chain Reaction cycles

If it's too much money, just get the rear... front hubs are much of a muchness and it's not worth spending big money on... they don't really do anything... it's the rear where the problems arise

Svetty
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby Svetty » Fri Apr 26, 2019 07:13 am

Another vote for Hope - they're just so smooth and reliable
FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D

thecycleclinic
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Re: Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

Postby thecycleclinic » Sun Apr 28, 2019 17:01 pm

Shimano hub races on pit through neglect. If they are serviced preventively then they can do stellar milages. 50,000 miles from a cared for hub is possible. My disc brake hubs also require no proprietary tools for service, there boxes full of spares and they are smooth and reliable.

The only special tool DT Swiss hubs need is the ring nut tool, that and a sturdy vice and strong shoulders.

I am struggling to see what you have, ugo, against Shimano hubs. the only thing that is limiting about them is they are 12mm TA only except for the cheaper non series RS505 hubs which are tiagra level really. You get mostly what you pay for.
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