Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

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maryka
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby maryka » Thu Jun 07, 2018 08:17 am

Probably but I still don't think I'd have any trouble staying with a 4th cat race and I'm no better now.

Mapaputsi
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Mapaputsi » Thu Jun 07, 2018 08:21 am

Thanks for the feedback. Couple of things that stand out to me:

95kg is quite heavy for a bicycle racer, with an FTP of 240W that puts you at 2.5W/kg which is on the low side, and I would very much doubt you have a 2,200W sprint as that would put you at world class status according to Coggan’s power chart that you often see floating around. If you are 2,200W then get to a velodrome quick and train for the Olympics! Seriously though you could definitely do with losing 10kg+, if that is possible.

1 year of cycling is not enough to be competing IMO, or at least to expect to be getting results. I had 4 or 5 years under my belt (1000-5000 miles/year) before I started racing last summer, and I am still only a very average 3rd Cat (28 years old). But you will get there!

Well done for going out getting in touch with the racing club, it will make all the difference.

And your comment about people knowing what they’re doing and being cliquey – no one has a clue what they’re really doing trust me, people like to show up and hop up on rollers with a big set of headphones on because that’s what they see team sky do at the tour, or willy wave with some familiar faces but it’s all just posturing. You’ll find that once you keep showing up and start to see some familiar faces you’ll fit right in.

Good luck!
Last edited by Mapaputsi on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Supermurph09
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Supermurph09 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 08:43 am

Just out of interest, are you using a powermeter? If not how have you calculated FTP and Max watts?

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DeVlaeminck
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby DeVlaeminck » Thu Jun 07, 2018 09:54 am

maryka wrote:240w is plenty on a flat 4th cat circuit, that was me in 2008/2009 when I first started racing (men's 4th cats) and it's only a worry if you find yourself off the back trying to close a gap. It's the bunch surfing that's the issue, but also just general fitness I would guess. 2.5w/kg means you have a lot to gain, and for that you'll simply have to ride more. 100miles/week isn't enough, and the surges will also kill you once you race anything with sharp corners or hills.



I'm guessing you weren't 15 stone though, and even on a flat track that makes a big difference. I also think crits in London are probably easier than Wales as there are so many races all year people tend to accumulate points and move up, I know people who needed a few points to move up to second or first cat coming towards the end of the season would target a race down south and typically it'd work.
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Imposter
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Imposter » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:11 am

Generally agree with the points about weight/accelerating out of corners - but the South Wales crit/circuit scene is currently limited to Llandow (no corners), Maindy (no corners, unless they also run on the infield) and Carmarthen (no corners). When I say 'no corners', I mean no corners that you need to brake into or accelerate out of.

That will probably change when Pembrey opens as the new circuit there will have climbs and corners.

maryka
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby maryka » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:13 am

London easier, not 15 stone, blah blah, all red herrings. 240w is plenty to sit in the bunch if you know what you're doing and have some anaerobic race fitness. Getting in a break or contesting the finish is a whole different matter of course.

Bottom line is the OP needs to get fitter, improve his race craft, and be able to deal with surges (including the self-caused ones by being on the wrong side when the circuit turns into the wind etc.).

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DeVlaeminck
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby DeVlaeminck » Thu Jun 07, 2018 14:38 pm

But if he isn't doing focused training it's unlikely he'll have great ability to recover from anaerobic bursts and go again. I know ftp isn't the only measure of fitness but it's all we have here. Mate of mine did Darley Moor at the weekend, his "weighted average power" whatever that is, for 75 mins, was 290 watts and he's probably 2 and a half stone lighter than the op.

It may be technically possible to sit in a bunch at 240 watts ftp but realistically his power to weight is likely to be the lowest in the race. It's not a red herring, you may as well say bunch skills are unimportant just get your ftp up to 400 watts and you can sit in the wind.
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maryka
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby maryka » Thu Jun 07, 2018 14:51 pm

DeVlaeminck wrote:you may as well say bunch skills are unimportant just get your ftp up to 400 watts and you can sit in the wind.


Yep I'd say that too :lol:

Fenix
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Fenix » Thu Jun 07, 2018 15:25 pm

I'd not have dreamed of racing with just a years cycling in my legs - so its still early days for the OP. If he can last long enough until the race settles then sitting in the middle of the bunch should be easy enough. Providing he has the skillz.

paul2718
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby paul2718 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 20:03 pm

I think it is way easier to sit near the front and even spend some time on it than to be bouncing around at the back. Especially if there are any proper corners. So the OP probably just needs to give it time, and some objective thought.

mrpbennett
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby mrpbennett » Fri Jun 08, 2018 15:43 pm

I was just looking at crit races and thinking if I should enter one...but after this i'm going to bail and train more :lol:

I have just started a low plan with TrainerRoad 2nd FTP test last week and I got 211 / 2.81kg/w, I'm 75kg @ 5'8 (could get to 70kg - but my gf feeds me ha) - currently training for the Ride 100. I know I can become more of a powerful rider so it's just progression.

Defo interested in eventually doing a crit though. OP hope you smash your goals and start standing on that podium.

Imposter
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Imposter » Fri Jun 08, 2018 15:53 pm

mrpbennett wrote:I was just looking at crit races and thinking if I should enter one...but after this i'm going to bail and train more :lol:


My suggestion would be not to do that. If there is a crit local to you, then just enter it and try it out. Whatever happens, at least you will know where you are, fitness wise - and you will have learned some race craft as well.

Even if you do 'bail and train more' the chances of getting dropped in your first few events are still pretty high.

Shirley Basso
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Shirley Basso » Fri Jun 08, 2018 16:10 pm

Agree. Plus it's excellent training regardless of what happens.

mrpbennett
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby mrpbennett » Fri Jun 08, 2018 16:26 pm

I’ll have to see if I can find some in south London around SE3 then. Unless anyone knows of any?

Imposter
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Imposter » Fri Jun 08, 2018 16:30 pm

mrpbennett wrote:I’ll have to see if I can find some in south London around SE3 then. Unless anyone knows of any?


Crystal Palace, Redbridge/Hog Hill, Lee Valley and Cyclopark/Gravesend are going to be your nearest venues.

mrpbennett
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby mrpbennett » Fri Jun 08, 2018 19:59 pm

Imposter wrote:
mrpbennett wrote:I’ll have to see if I can find some in south London around SE3 then. Unless anyone knows of any?


Crystal Palace, Redbridge/Hog Hill, Lee Valley and Cyclopark/Gravesend are going to be your nearest venues.


cheers dude ill check these out

dhp2
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby dhp2 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 16:53 pm

Thanks again for all the help!

Ok, I've checked back on my stats.

I now weigh 14 stone 2 (hadn't weighed myself in about a month)

The 2,200 watts was just once and may have been a false reading. I've checked back and I usually hit around 1,800.

I did a 100 mile ride today averaging about 14mph with 7,500 feet of climbing. Average watts for that was less than 200 but it was very hot in fairness.

Having read all your responses I'm going to keep going to the crits and getting dropped as I think it's a good work out if nothing else. I'm going this week with a team I've just joined.

I'm also going to try out intervals - I always figured that as it's so hilly round here I was kinda doing them naturally. But now I realise it's all about repeatable bursts in a short timeframe. I think this should give me better chances of staying with the bunch and learning some race craft - I realise I am a long way off competing for any wins.

cougie
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby cougie » Sun Jun 10, 2018 16:57 pm

Intervals are essential.

Shirley Basso
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby Shirley Basso » Sun Jun 10, 2018 17:36 pm

Glad you're not disheartened. Racing is excellent training anyway!

100 mile rides are nice to build your base fitness but intervals are key to building speed and recovery.

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nweststeyn
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Re: Newbie Struggling with Crit Races

Postby nweststeyn » Mon Jun 11, 2018 13:53 pm

Agree... up here in Scotland most 4th cats I race with week in week out are fighting for license points (and struggling to get them) at 4w/kg... My best result this season has been an 11th with an FTP of 332 @ 85kg. That's just about enough for me to hang in there, but everything has to go perfectly and I have to be tactically spot on (which I never am).

4th Cat is only called 'beginners' by old schoolers trying to wind us up or by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Shirley Basso wrote:I think the standard now is surely higher than 2008?


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