Defy to TCR - mistake?

General bike chat that does not fit elsewhere
foggymike
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby foggymike » Thu Sep 07, 2017 14:26 pm

It may be the angle of the photo but your saddle looks like it's tilted quite far forwards which, compounded by the curved saddle shape, would tip you forwards putting more weight than intended on your hands and making riding the bike more wearing. This could make you think you need higher/shorter bars to push back against the forwards lean to hold yourself in place? Just a thought, might be completely wrong! Need to see you on the bike really as your leg, torso and arm length etc could be different to what the saddle height suggests - it's really had to get decent advice this way unfortunately.

jamesbeaumont
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby jamesbeaumont » Thu Sep 07, 2017 14:37 pm

foggymike wrote:It may be the angle of the photo but your saddle looks like it's tilted quite far forwards which, compounded by the curved saddle shape, would tip you forwards putting more weight than intended on your hands and making riding the bike more wearing. This could make you think you need higher/shorter bars to push back against the forwards lean to hold yourself in place? Just a thought, might be completely wrong! Need to see you on the bike really as your leg, torso and arm length etc could be different to what the saddle height suggests - it's really had to get decent advice this way unfortunately.


I have been thinking this myself. The saddle was definitely angled down, but this was due to too much pressure in my nether regions. I have checked my saddle height and found I can drop it slightly which then allows me to bring the nose of the saddle up a bit more, hence reducing the pressure on the bars as you say.

All very helpful stuff this and really helping get my bike setup sorted!

Webboo
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby Webboo » Thu Sep 07, 2017 14:50 pm

That saddle doesn't look right, pointing down?

jamesbeaumont
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby jamesbeaumont » Thu Sep 07, 2017 16:04 pm

foggymike wrote:It may be the angle of the photo but your saddle looks like it's tilted quite far forwards which, compounded by the curved saddle shape, would tip you forwards putting more weight than intended on your hands and making riding the bike more wearing. This could make you think you need higher/shorter bars to push back against the forwards lean to hold yourself in place? Just a thought, might be completely wrong! Need to see you on the bike really as your leg, torso and arm length etc could be different to what the saddle height suggests - it's really had to get decent advice this way unfortunately.


This is the best I could get... https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ug9NBnFCq9JsaMUy1

Does that shine any light on the situation?

MisterMuncher
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby MisterMuncher » Thu Sep 07, 2017 16:39 pm

The saddle tilt definitely wouldn't help. I'd set it flat and work the height from there. Any more than a couple of degrees tilt would indicate it's not in the right position to me.

Counter-intuitive as it may sound, moving the saddle back on the rails will take pressure off the hands/upper body, as it'll move your CG back, too. I'd imagine the weight training has given you sufficient core stability to hold yourself.

jamesbeaumont
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby jamesbeaumont » Thu Sep 07, 2017 17:09 pm

MisterMuncher wrote:The saddle tilt definitely wouldn't help. I'd set it flat and work the height from there. Any more than a couple of degrees tilt would indicate it's not in the right position to me.

Counter-intuitive as it may sound, moving the saddle back on the rails will take pressure off the hands/upper body, as it'll move your CG back, too. I'd imagine the weight training has given you sufficient core stability to hold yourself.



Sorry, do you mean the saddle position would help? I have adjusted it significantly and when I checked it with a spirit level it is now dead flat. The saddle is lower too and as a result I must admit the whole setup feels far better.

Bianchi Dave
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby Bianchi Dave » Thu Sep 07, 2017 17:26 pm

James - don't think its been mentioned so far, but sounds like you'd benefit from a proper bike fit (from a reputable fitter). Others can look at the bike and give ideas but without knowing your exact dimensions and flexibility its a bit hit and miss. Given your'e only 30 you've also plenty time to do some stretching which will help immensely!

I can honestly say a retul bike fit is the best money I've ever spent on cycling (and I've spent a fair bit!)
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andydr2wheels
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby andydr2wheels » Sun Sep 10, 2017 15:49 pm

Q I'd ask is why did you go for a TCR?
I've had a Defy 0 Alu for 4 years and just got myself an Advanced TCR in the Aug sales. Did it because I wanted to push myself harder and faster on the climbs in particular, but also in general. I figured that's the point of a TCR over a straight up endurance bike like Defy.
I expected it wd take a bit of time to adapt to the new position - it definitely wants me to go faster, & it definitely asks for a little more flexibility. But actually the adjustment less than I'd expected. On top of club rides and shorter sessions, I've done several 5 hr+ rides and no ill effects. If anything, I find I don't want to get off the bike!
Still love my Defy, but TCR definitley not a mistake!

Semantik
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby Semantik » Sun Sep 10, 2017 18:11 pm

jamesbeaumont wrote:
Matthewfalle wrote:Pics of set up to see if we can spot anything that may help?


Sure.

Before: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MZpZa4RxU4xQZ1gv2

After: https://photos.app.goo.gl/HCNxrWSkFlWGsutw2

Thoughts? Are the hoods angled up more likely to give me numb hands?


Pic 1 looks better in fact but you need to raise the nose of your saddle in both setups. pointy down saddle means you're sliding forward onto the 'bars so any sensation that your too low at the front will merely be accentuated by the saddle being like that.
It's ultimately your shout but you have to bear in mind that the TCR is essentially a race orientated bike with a lower front end than the Defy so pointy up stems are not really its thing. The higher you try to make it go the more this will have a negative effect on its steering and race bike handling. maybe if comfort is a priority you could get the next size up or think in terms of a different bike altogether.

jamesbeaumont
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby jamesbeaumont » Sun Sep 10, 2017 21:21 pm

andydr2wheels wrote:Q I'd ask is why did you go for a TCR?
I've had a Defy 0 Alu for 4 years and just got myself an Advanced TCR in the Aug sales. Did it because I wanted to push myself harder and faster on the climbs in particular, but also in general. I figured that's the point of a TCR over a straight up endurance bike like Defy.
I expected it wd take a bit of time to adapt to the new position - it definitely wants me to go faster, & it definitely asks for a little more flexibility. But actually the adjustment less than I'd expected. On top of club rides and shorter sessions, I've done several 5 hr+ rides and no ill effects. If anything, I find I don't want to get off the bike!
Still love my Defy, but TCR definitley not a mistake!


I went for the TCR for the same reasons as you - to go harder and faster. I am absolutely fine with it taking a while to get used to the bike, it's just a bigger change in comfort than I was expecting, which in turns discourages me from spending time on it.

The saddle is now flat so I'll be putting the stem back to the original setup and seeing if the saddle angle was the source of the issues.

DJ58
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby DJ58 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 19:26 pm

James the TCR just does not look right with the stem flipped up, leave it in the negative position at the top of the steerer tube as in photo 1 and work on your flexibility, also double check that your saddle is not set too high.

johngti
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby johngti » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:48 am

Another option would be to get a -6 degree stem (or something even closer to zero) and sliding the shifters up the bar a little

Websta24
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby Websta24 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 13:19 pm

Bianchi Dave wrote:James - don't think its been mentioned so far, but sounds like you'd benefit from a proper bike fit (from a reputable fitter). Others can look at the bike and give ideas but without knowing your exact dimensions and flexibility its a bit hit and miss. Given your'e only 30 you've also plenty time to do some stretching which will help immensely!

I can honestly say a retul bike fit is the best money I've ever spent on cycling (and I've spent a fair bit!)


THIS

I was reading all the comments and this is exactly my thoughts. Get yourself to a Bike Fit specialist. They will test flexibility as well as setting up your position.

Ajkerr73
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby Ajkerr73 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 18:39 pm

I have a 2015 Defy Advanced Pro 1 and a 2016 TCR Advanced Pro 1.

I bought the TCR as I fancied a go at some road races and discs are obviously persona-non-grata.

I can do a long ride on either bike but there is no doubt whatsoever which bike is the comfiest to ride - The Defy.

3 main reasons i'd say.

1. 28mm rubber on the Defy - the TCR will only take 25mm
2. The D-Fuse seat post on the Defy must (although I have no proof) be more compliant than the aero post on the TCR.
3. TCR frame stiffness is greater than the Defy.

If I want to go and ride hard at 19mph+ I'll ride the TCR
If i'm out for a less fast ride or a multi day ride i'm on the Defy.

Ajkerr73
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby Ajkerr73 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 18:47 pm

DJ58 wrote:James the TCR just does not look right with the stem flipped up, leave it in the negative position at the top of the steerer tube as in photo 1 and work on your flexibility, also double check that your saddle is not set too high.


Unless you value the "look" more than the comfort, I'd be ignoring this one.

PS. The clear issue is that you have Quads where your forearms should be. Can you have this procedure reversed? :D :D :D

jamesbeaumont
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby jamesbeaumont » Sat Sep 16, 2017 06:26 am

I have the stem back in its original position now. After ensuring the saddle was completely flat, I have been ok with the bar height.

I will definitely get a bike fit when I can. Trouble is I'm in the Highlands so I don't have many options here.

Thanks for all your help guys!

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bendertherobot
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby bendertherobot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:57 am

Just to bump this, I am afraid my TCR really isn't agreeing with me over say 50 miles. May have to swap it.
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bristolpete
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby bristolpete » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am

bendertherobot wrote:Just to bump this, I am afraid my TCR really isn't agreeing with me over say 50 miles. May have to swap it.


Did 102 miles solo on mine last week. 6 hours. Certainly a fab bike, but I reread the OP's comments and the bike does send a lot of feedback through the pedals and seat post. Took me a few days to recover overall and no doubting a Defy / Domane would have been smoother. Have to say though, still the best climbing bike I have owned as the BB stiffness is insane for seated climbing and I tend to do a lot of middle distance 30-65 +4000 feet ^ rather than the 100's. I run turbo cotton 28mm which help.

I am staying with mine for one more season / year as have high hopes for the 2021 TCR which 'should' yield a new frame / forks combo in keeping with the current fashion. Had a few bikes come and go in the last few years, but something about the TCR I love hence waiting on the next gen.

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bendertherobot
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby bendertherobot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:43 am

Yep. It's there that I suffer. So dead feet by the end of it. Sore ars* and back, and also some pain in the hands. It is fabulous but it takes me days to recover. And I am doing a 400k and 600k audax next year. So it's really not going to work!
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bristolpete
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Re: Defy to TCR - mistake?

Postby bristolpete » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:18 pm

bendertherobot wrote:Yep. It's there that I suffer. So dead feet by the end of it. Sore ars* and back, and also some pain in the hands. It is fabulous but it takes me days to recover. And I am doing a 400k and 600k audax next year. So it's really not going to work!


Yes, certainly something I noted on the bike. I thought about buying some 'less stiff shoes' as running s-works 7 which again are very stiff. I think this is what the OP was talking about with aching quads. I actually removed my Pro stealth saddle which I had not had long as put some power saddle back too as a bit more flex than the carbon base coupled with the TCR post / frame. In reality, these bikes are designed around flexible 25 year old pro riders and whilst we all have the choice to ride them the industry obsession with absolute stiffness not ideal for us old timers. Thankfully I run 21mm internal wheels which allow 28mm tyres to shape well and fit the TCR no problem. That said, I sold my old Cervelo S5 after 4 weeks as that bike was just on another level stiffness wise at the rear and on my local roads ( read battered ) it was so harsh I literally could not ride it.


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