Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Organising a chain gang? Entering a Sportive/Audax?
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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Mon May 20, 2019 16:02 pm

EagleDay wrote:
I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.


You might agree, but that's not what I meant.
I can't care less about people getting interested in watching races from the roadside, I want people to get off their cars and onto their bikes to go to work or for the school run. I want UK cities to be like Dutch cities.
I don't think that sportives or Audax events help much, open roads or closed. We need more events where the roads are closed for people to stroll around cities, maybe even stroll at a brisk 15 mph, discover how easy it is to go from Birmingham to Coventry, which they didn't think it was even possible.

What we don't need is a bunch of wanna be pro howling down the roads at 30 mph, that doesn't help anybody...

kingrollo
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Mon May 20, 2019 17:18 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
EagleDay wrote:
I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.


You might agree, but that's not what I meant.
I can't care less about people getting interested in watching races from the roadside, I want people to get off their cars and onto their bikes to go to work or for the school run. I want UK cities to be like Dutch cities.
I don't think that sportives or Audax events help much, open roads or closed. We need more events where the roads are closed for people to stroll around cities, maybe even stroll at a brisk 15 mph, discover how easy it is to go from Birmingham to Coventry, which they didn't think it was even possible.

What we don't need is a bunch of wanna be pro howling down the roads at 30 mph, that doesn't help anybody...


So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?

EagleDay
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Mon May 20, 2019 20:07 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
EagleDay wrote:
I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.


You might agree, but that's not what I meant.
I can't care less about people getting interested in watching races from the roadside, I want people to get off their cars and onto their bikes to go to work or for the school run. I want UK cities to be like Dutch cities.
I don't think that sportives or Audax events help much, open roads or closed. We need more events where the roads are closed for people to stroll around cities, maybe even stroll at a brisk 15 mph, discover how easy it is to go from Birmingham to Coventry, which they didn't think it was even possible.

What we don't need is a bunch of wanna be pro howling down the roads at 30 mph, that doesn't help anybody...


15mph around town and city streets? a bit risky if you ask me. Maybe Audax and Sportives are not the way to go, but closed road events are the only ones that grab peoples attention (by the way, since when have Audax and Sportive rides become races? Short Audax rides in particular, would be suitable for families). I'll say it again, we all have a part to play in the safety of these events if riders ignore the organiser's advice who's fault does it become when an accident occurs? Even if you had events advertised as family runs, say up to 30m loops you would still have those wanting to make a race of it. Getting people out of their cars and off the school run? ha! Some time ago a school banned parking outside the school and the kids had to walk a few yards further and look at the fuss that caused. :roll:

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Mon May 20, 2019 20:25 pm

kingrollo wrote:
So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?


It's a great idea, like a skyride... no txxats, no timing, no pens and pelotons, just turn up and ride... family friendly route

theboyfold
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby theboyfold » Mon May 20, 2019 20:27 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
kingrollo wrote:
So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?


It's a great idea, like a skyride... no txxats, no timing, no pens and pelotons, just turn up and ride... family friendly route


They do this in London the day before Ride London, it's ace. I did it with my boy last year, he was 6 at the time

kingrollo
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Mon May 20, 2019 20:38 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
kingrollo wrote:
So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?


It's a great idea, like a skyride... no txxats, no timing, no pens and pelotons, just turn up and ride... family friendly route


Personally I think that would have limited appeal. 20 - 30 miles is a quite stretch for a new cyclist - Turn up and ride implies you expect it to be a FOC event - and even if you did charge, your going to have to limit numbers - so the cost per ride would probably be as high if not higher than the velo.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Mon May 20, 2019 20:48 pm

FOC, bring in corporate sponsors, boot out those profit makers... Birmingham is a global city, they should be able to do something on the scale of London

EagleDay
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Mon May 20, 2019 20:58 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:FOC, bring in corporate sponsors, boot out those profit makers... Birmingham is a global city, they should be able to do something on the scale of London


I'm beginning to think you are a closet NIMBY ugo. Whinging for the sake of it just because you do not agree with something. What is wrong with somebody making a profit out of these events, it's a business same as any other, and as long as somebody is prepared to put the effort in to organise such large events I am happy to pay. You'll be saying next those companies who organise the £2000+ LEJOG rides should do it voluntarily. What's the difference?

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby awavey » Mon May 20, 2019 21:49 pm

fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on :) the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday :)

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Mon May 20, 2019 22:41 pm

awavey wrote:fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on :) the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday :)


If they are anything like those on the local railway walk and canal towpath, I can believe it.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue May 21, 2019 04:56 am

awavey wrote:fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on :) the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday :)


They are not designed with you in mind and they shouldn't be. I said it all above, if you close the roads, it has to be for the greater good, not for the benefit of those who already cycle regularly.

kingrollo
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Tue May 21, 2019 07:57 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
awavey wrote:fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on :) the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday :)


They are not designed with you in mind and they shouldn't be. I said it all above, if you close the roads, it has to be for the greater good, not for the benefit of those who already cycle regularly.


Without to a (greater or lesser degree) existing cyclists you wouldn't get the numbers to make this viable.

Lets not forget most people enjoyed the velo - riders and spectators - loads raised for charity - so it is why be no means all bad.

EagleDay
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Tue May 21, 2019 08:13 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
awavey wrote:fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on :) the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday :)


They are not designed with you in mind and they shouldn't be. I said it all above, if you close the roads, it has to be for the greater good, not for the benefit of those who already cycle regularly.


Define the "greater good" and explain why "regular cyclists" should not have events on closed roads. Because up to yet you have failed to make a convincing argument.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue May 21, 2019 09:02 am

EagleDay wrote:
Define the "greater good" and explain why "regular cyclists" should not have events on closed roads. Because up to yet you have failed to make a convincing argument.


I've defined it earlier, I can't keep repeating the same stuff over and over... it's boring...

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue May 21, 2019 09:09 am

kingrollo wrote:
Without to a (greater or lesser degree) existing cyclists you wouldn't get the numbers to make this viable.

Lets not forget most people enjoyed the velo - riders and spectators - loads raised for charity - so it is why be no means all bad.


You say that, but it works in London, why would it not work in Birmingham?
If there is a city in bad need of a cycling revamp is Brum. They are doing something, which is good, but you also need to build a critical mass of people who want to cycle to work. Getting the hang of going from A to B on a bicycle might be all it needs. For some people it's about fear of traffic, for others is simply that they think B is too far. Give them an opportunity to cycle to B in controlled conditions, surrounded by others and they might chenge their minds. Doesn't have to be Coventry, but it ties nicely with the city of culture thing.

As I am writing this, I can see the cranes at work to build yet another fuxxing car park

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ChippyK » Tue May 21, 2019 10:41 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
kingrollo wrote:
Without to a (greater or lesser degree) existing cyclists you wouldn't get the numbers to make this viable.

Lets not forget most people enjoyed the velo - riders and spectators - loads raised for charity - so it is why be no means all bad.


You say that, but it works in London, why would it not work in Birmingham?
If there is a city in bad need of a cycling revamp is Brum. They are doing something, which is good, but you also need to build a critical mass of people who want to cycle to work. Getting the hang of going from A to B on a bicycle might be all it needs. For some people it's about fear of traffic, for others is simply that they think B is too far. Give them an opportunity to cycle to B in controlled conditions, surrounded by others and they might chenge their minds. Doesn't have to be Coventry, but it ties nicely with the city of culture thing.

As I am writing this, I can see the cranes at work to build yet another fuxxing car park


I’d start in Brum by locking up dickheads, usually young lads, in VW Golfs and Audi’s, or some private hire cars, who think the law doesn’t apply to them.

EagleDay
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Tue May 21, 2019 11:16 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
kingrollo wrote:
Without to a (greater or lesser degree) existing cyclists you wouldn't get the numbers to make this viable.

Lets not forget most people enjoyed the velo - riders and spectators - loads raised for charity - so it is why be no means all bad.


You say that, but it works in London, why would it not work in Birmingham?
If there is a city in bad need of a cycling revamp is Brum. They are doing something, which is good, but you also need to build a critical mass of people who want to cycle to work. Getting the hang of going from A to B on a bicycle might be all it needs. For some people it's about fear of traffic, for others is simply that they think B is too far. Give them an opportunity to cycle to B in controlled conditions, surrounded by others and they might chenge their minds. Doesn't have to be Coventry, but it ties nicely with the city of culture thing.

As I am writing this, I can see the cranes at work to build yet another fuxxing car park


You make a couple of good points "fear of traffic" and "getting from A to B by bike". The number of times I have tried to explain how easy it is to cover a fair distance by bike is unbelievable. Just because I have covered a few centuries people think I am some superfit athlete (I wish, too many years of heavy smoking have put paid to that). Personally, I enjoyed watching the chain gangs go through (poetry in motion) I just made sure I kept myself safe. I am one of the 'slow' riders that started in the first pen, I completed in 08:53, as a consequence, I saw a great diversity of riders as they passed many of them looked just like any rider on their Sunday morning tootle along the railway walk. Overweight and riding heavy mountain bikes, baggage racks filled with whatever, backpacks stuffed with goodies, probably. The comment is not intended as an insult, many of them did it in a faster time than I. But I fail to see how the roadside spectators cannot be inspired by these and slower riders like myself that were making a meal of it over the Lickey Hills and thinking "I can do that". Maybe the answer is to treat these events as a mini-festival and have interactive activities around the event village and pitstops. Whatever scheme is used, if it involves closed-roads, no matter how well marshalled you will still have to convince local residents to accept it as it is for "the greater good" and also put up with aggressive motorists.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue May 21, 2019 11:24 am

EagleDay wrote:Maybe the answer is to treat these events as a mini-festival and have interactive activities around the event village and pitstops. Whatever scheme is used, if it involves closed-roads, no matter how well marshalled you will still have to convince local residents to accept it as it is for "the greater good" and also put up with aggressive motorists.


Yes, that and get rid of the "grand depart", the finish line and the official timing. That alone will deter anyone who has any ambition to "win it"

EagleDay
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Tue May 21, 2019 11:56 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
EagleDay wrote:Maybe the answer is to treat these events as a mini-festival and have interactive activities around the event village and pitstops. Whatever scheme is used, if it involves closed-roads, no matter how well marshalled you will still have to convince local residents to accept it as it is for "the greater good" and also put up with aggressive motorists.


Yes, that and get rid of the "grand depart", the finish line and the official timing. That alone will deter anyone who has any ambition to "win it"

You are dreaming ugo, a race can be raced without a grand depart, without official timing, without an official start line and without an official finish line. I see it every week at some time or another. But wouldn't smaller Audax/Velo type family rides on closed roads provide the experience and confidence necessary for riding in groups or in traffic especially if more experienced riders who ride in the 'spirit of the event' are included?

kingrollo
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Tue May 21, 2019 12:52 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
EagleDay wrote:
Define the "greater good" and explain why "regular cyclists" should not have events on closed roads. Because up to yet you have failed to make a convincing argument.


I've defined it earlier, I can't keep repeating the same stuff over and over... it's boring...


oh the irony !


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