Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Organising a chain gang? Entering a Sportive/Audax?
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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Thu May 16, 2019 04:30 am

awavey wrote:
I caught up with a friend who did the ride for a chat tonight and they said the "risky" riders who werent the out and out faster riders & chain gangs fwiw who all passed on the right and made their presence known, these were generally the ones who probably just thought they were as quick, but actually werent that fast as they couldnt keep up with the really fast riders, and they just werent riding predictably for a group ride situation with that many riders on the road.


Too fast for their ability, I've covered it above.
Obviously those who are used to racing, are more comfortable in the situation, problem is they drag others who are not.

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DeVlaeminck
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby DeVlaeminck » Thu May 16, 2019 10:00 am

Pretty much why I've always avoided these mass participation events that don't demand a level of fitness that at least helps whittle out the least experienced riders - even then in a Fred Whitton or Marmotte I'd try and stay well to the front of any large group I end up in and ride more cautiously - sit a little further back or slightly outside unless everyone is clearly used to group riding/racing.

The thing is if RideLondon VeloBirmingham etc marketed themselves as a gentle family style or easy club run pootle over distance would they attract the same number of participants - and would they stump up the same cash. Possibly they would if they tried it - that vintage cycle ride in Derbyshire I forget the name of has all sorts of people on all sorts of bikes taking part - but so long as they tap into the sportive market people should expect it's going to carry a bigger element of risk than many might be happy with.
Holbrook Sports FC Women - sign for us

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby Imposter » Thu May 16, 2019 10:10 am

Philip Whiteman wrote:Now that you have done the Velo, what is your next biggest challenge?

The Kidderminster Killer may be the answer.

http://beaconrcc.org.uk/audaxes/kidderm ... to-heaven/


Poor choice of name for that event, I think...

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Veronese68
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby Veronese68 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:24 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
Veronese68 wrote:
Slowbike wrote:Slowest riders seem to be ~9mph but there seem to be some results at over 15hrs - 6mph ...

Were the being called fat and slow? How many pub stops for those at 15 hours?


I know you like your bike pub crawl... have you seen this? I'm going to make my official return to SW London just for that

http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/17-559/

I like the sound of that, I doubt I'd see much of you after the start though.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Thu May 16, 2019 12:08 pm

Veronese68 wrote:I like the sound of that, I doubt I'd see much of you after the start though.



You never know, I'll be on my Brompton

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Sat May 18, 2019 16:18 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:Aside from the fact that there are no chevrons or indeed steep descents in the West Midlands as you seem to suggest (if there are, where were the marshals calming the traffic of riders?), it is frustrating that every single time they manage to attract 15+K riders on closed road sportives, inevitably someone has to die. There are probably just as many riders going out for a sunday ride in the area and there isn't a casualty every week, which suggests these events, road closures or not, are inherently dangerous.
I go as far as saying that if the roads were open, probably nobody would die (although there would be other, less dramatic issues).


And how many car drivers do you think would be patient enough to tolerate a large Sportive on open roads? The result would be carnage!

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Sat May 18, 2019 16:33 pm

EagleDay wrote:And how many car drivers do you think would be patient enough to tolerate a large Sportive on open roads? The result would be carnage!


I doubt... you'd need loads of marshals at the junctions. Bear in mind RRV is bigger than Velo Birmingham and it's on open roads... as far as I am aware there are no regular accidents with cars... it is possible, I don't think it's more dangerous than closed roads, but it needs a level of logistics that are not easy to put together.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Sat May 18, 2019 16:38 pm

Capt Slog wrote:
gabriel959 wrote:Don't understand the lure of these rides, it is already a bit iffy when you join a Sunday ride with the club and there are a couple of new riders, imagine riding with 17,000 new people! Ok, it is closed roads, but you need to pay for it, possibly get a hotel room, it just sounds like an unnecessary expense for riding my bike with an increased risk of injury and accidents! Much prefer the sense of adventure of an audax which is a lot more what cycling is about, in my opinion.


Where do you get "riding with 17,000 new people"? In my case, there were perhaps 16,000 in front of me, and likely some of them were in their cars and heading home before i got halfway round! :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Sat May 18, 2019 19:11 pm

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:
david7m wrote:4 hours without the toilet and no additional drinks or food sounds a tall order?
We stopped 3 times which added about 15 mins.

I did 5:36 without stopping. 2 750ml bottles, couple of flapjack bars, a bit of Soreen and a pack of cliff energy chew things. It’s quite doable.

I got nowhere near that time, I'm one of the 69yo slowcoaches but I did it in 8:53:03 (a damn sight quicker than I expected)on a couple of Chiacharge a couple of Veloforte and one Litre of Hydrafit with a pitstop at the 86m point for a packet of crisps and a cup of Coke. So I would agree, a 100 is doable for most regular cyclists IF they stay within their limits.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby david7m » Sat May 18, 2019 19:18 pm

I drink too much:)

kingrollo
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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Sat May 18, 2019 21:38 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
awavey wrote:
I caught up with a friend who did the ride for a chat tonight and they said the "risky" riders who werent the out and out faster riders & chain gangs fwiw who all passed on the right and made their presence known, these were generally the ones who probably just thought they were as quick, but actually werent that fast as they couldnt keep up with the really fast riders, and they just werent riding predictably for a group ride situation with that many riders on the road.


Too fast for their ability, I've covered it above.
Obviously those who are used to racing, are more comfortable in the situation, problem is they drag others who are not.


can't you just say closed road sportives aren't for you and leave at that.

I don't ride TTs or Audux events - but I don't bombard those forums with increasingly weak arguements as to why people should shun these events

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Sat May 18, 2019 23:02 pm

Don't some of you people realise how much you sound like those people who would like to put a stop to the Velo? You won't stop the fast boys making a race of it, remove timings.....they have cycle computers; ban cycle computers....they have mobile phones; ban mobile phones.....they have watches. You can't really grade by speed unless you increase the road closure times to enable the slower riders to complete the course before the cut-off time. Personally, I enjoyed watching the chaingangs going through. The organisers need to get it through to all riders, fast or slow, to ride in the spirit of the event, and that is the basic rule of slow riders on the left and overtaking on the right. For some distance I was behind two riders who were talking to each other, one was riding well to the left the other in the middle of the road and if a faster rider was passing on the right it forced other even faster riders to cut into the left. Maybe the domestiques could deal with such the problem when seen. Marshalling nearly 20000 riders on the road at the same time must be a nightmare, but I don't think the problem is insurmountable, we all have a role to play to make it as safe as possible.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Sun May 19, 2019 06:05 am

kingrollo wrote:
I don't ride TTs or Audux events - but I don't bombard those forums with increasingly weak arguements as to why people should shun these events


But you could if you wanted to... it's not against the rules of this forum.

Against your point, I think there should be more events like Velo Birmingham, but they should help promote cycling, as opposed to help promote hate against cyclists. Over time I made some suggestions on how I think they should be run.
They should be less Team Sky and more Sky Ride, they should be inclusive (shorter distance, lower speed, a safer overall experience), rather than satisfy the perverse PRO peloton fantasies of a few individuals who already cycle too much and could do with doing something else that day.

There are improvements though, at least this time they didn't wee-wee off an entire community with their badly planned road closures, like they did in 2017 or in the doomed Velo South.

For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Sun May 19, 2019 10:54 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
kingrollo wrote:
I don't ride TTs or Audux events - but I don't bombard those forums with increasingly weak arguements as to why people should shun these events


But you could if you wanted to... it's not against the rules of this forum.

Against your point, I think there should be more events like Velo Birmingham, but they should help promote cycling, as opposed to help promote hate against cyclists. Over time I made some suggestions on how I think they should be run.
They should be less Team Sky and more Sky Ride, they should be inclusive (shorter distance, lower speed, a safer overall experience), rather than satisfy the perverse PRO peloton fantasies of a few individuals who already cycle too much and could do with doing something else that day.

There are improvements though, at least this time they didn't wee-wee off an entire community with their badly planned road closures, like they did in 2017 or in the doomed Velo South.

For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others


You forgot to add "in your opinion"

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby ugo.santalucia » Sun May 19, 2019 11:02 am

in my opinion... it comes without saying, I'm not Theresa May pontificating on what the British People want

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby mrfpb » Sun May 19, 2019 12:47 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others


This, basically. We need events for people that are not comfortable with other riders pulling in front of them with 6 inches of room between wheels, and people who feel the need to brake most of the way downhill. Because, frankly, that is the type of person that mass participation events (especially for charity) tend to attract.

Personally I found RideLondon to be less safe than any of the open road sportives I've done, and that was down to numbers of participants. 4,000 for the Dragon Ride (my biggest open road sportive) compared to 20,000 for RLS leaves plenty of room for slowcoaches like me to share the road with chain gangs doing 25mph.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Sun May 19, 2019 15:14 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:in my opinion... it comes without saying, I'm not Theresa May pontificating on what the British People want


you sound about as likeable.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Mon May 20, 2019 10:25 am

mrfpb wrote:
ugo.santalucia wrote:For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others


This, basically. We need events for people that are not comfortable with other riders pulling in front of them with 6 inches of room between wheels, and people who feel the need to brake most of the way downhill. Because, frankly, that is the type of person that mass participation events (especially for charity) tend to attract.

Personally I found RideLondon to be less safe than any of the open road sportives I've done, and that was down to numbers of participants. 4,000 for the Dragon Ride (my biggest open road sportive) compared to 20,000 for RLS leaves plenty of room for slowcoaches like me to share the road with chain gangs doing 25mph.


I suggest it has nothing to do with numbers but riders ignoring the organiser's advice of slow riders to the left and leave the right for overtaking and fast riders. I saw too many riders riding spread across the road as if they were on a Sunday morning 'tootle' along the railway walk and too many making a 'proper' race of it and weaving in and out of the pack. Having said that, it did not bother me too much as long as I could keep myself safe and I thoroughly enjoyed it no matter what. The only damper being the fatality.

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby kingrollo » Mon May 20, 2019 11:48 am

Yes some people are making it sound like death race 2000 - and you were luck to escape unscathed.

I know a fair few people who did the ride - and whilst the death of a cyclist put a damper on things - most of them had an enjoyable ride

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Re: Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

Postby EagleDay » Mon May 20, 2019 14:59 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
kingrollo wrote:



Against your point, I think there should be more events like Velo Birmingham, but they should help promote cycling, as opposed to help promote hate against cyclists. Over time I made some suggestions on how I think they should be run.
They should be less Team Sky and more Sky Ride, they should be inclusive (shorter distance, lower speed, a safer overall experience), rather than satisfy the perverse PRO peloton fantasies of a few individuals who already cycle too much and could do with doing something else that day.



I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.


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